217 réponses à ce sujet

[Eleinehmm]

Oh please, People who say that about Scientific community like that  obliviously have never worked in any science-related field... I wonder where all of the Scientists-HIDE-we-KNOW the truth  thing come from ?

Adventurous scientists, my ass – Life is not a James Bond movie, pal…

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 12 octobre 2010 - 09:12 .

[Halfdan The Menace]

Tazzmission wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

That's not something I would take too seriously, Tazz. By my last post, I meant that there's something the government is hiding. What it is is anyone's guess.

wich would be our lovley government has indeed experimented with alien technology. realisticly speaking when they announce all these new technologies are they finally gona admit that they got it from aliens or will they admit they stole it? i have no issue admitting alot of the ufo sightings are in fact government experimental craft but the world itself has to be prepared when the truth of the other ufos is revealed

You know what makes it even more weirder? some witnesses claimed to have seen several Russian aircrafts flying over the Nevada desert heading towards Area 51.You think the Russian also involved in this so called "black ops"?

Thats hard to explain how they got all those weird technologies (stealth aircrafts with invisibility systems,high-hypersonic aircrafts faster than the speed of sound,etc.)

 

[Inquisitor Recon]

Since the late 1960s Soviet aircraft "acquired" through various means were flown out of Groom Lake for evaluation and air-to-air training purposes, so in that case there is probably a more conventional explanation.

[Halfdan The Menace]

ReconTeam wrote...

Since the late 1960s Soviet aircraft "acquired" through various means were flown out of Groom Lake for evaluation and air-to-air training purposes, so in that case there is probably a more conventional explanation.

Bob Lazar did claimed at one time that Russian scientists worked at the Groom Lake facility and they are work on some "differently shaped crafts"

Modifié par ModestmeNTaLmogul, 12 octobre 2010 - 11:05 .

[dunniteowl]

For the record, I am not a victim, nor was there ever any implication that I was. I have worked in places where I actually got to rub elbows with a couple of Noble Laureates and many other highly trained and experienced Higher Energy Physics types. Since leaving the USAF, I have held (other than my job at a zoo) nothing but high technology positions and worked closely with Engineers with PhDs, Scientists with PhDs and other sorts of sheepskins.

My overall experience with those of the Engineering disciplines and of Science is that, by and large, they are seekers of answers, askers of questions. Until you talk about UFOs, psychic phenomena or ghosts and the like. Then the blinders come right up.

And it's funny, because that sort of scientific experience should be considering, with all the anecdotal evidence there is, just laying around, that, whatever all that stuff is, it's worth investigating. If for no other reason than to lay it to rest as permamently as they can.

J. Allen Hynek, was one of the consultants on Project Sign, Project Grudge and Project Blue Book. After going through nearly two decades of researching the sightings, asking questions of witnesses, reading testimony from extremely credible sources, and investigating, he ended up founding CUFOS.

I'm pretty sure his primary role with the original military and government projects was to act as a skeptic and debunker.

So if there's nothing to all that, then why did this guy, after all that time, end up founding a non governmental research entity to study UFOs?

I'm not saying that all scientists are automatically against studying the phenomemnon, but, by and large, you'll find more folks that simply say, "Aww, that's all a bunch of crap," and have nothing further to say on it. This includes a large percentage of science related folks. Because no-one's been able to come up with proof positive of such things, they basically scoff at it as BS.

That's possibly an unfairly wide generalization. My personal experience has been, though, that to mention anything like my experiences is pretty much guranteed to get you labeled a nut with cracks about needing a tinfoil hat.

That's not skepticism, that's scorn. And it seems to me, that my earlier point is mostly being missed. We could use more skepticism and less scorn. Including quips about acting the victim, which is entirely uncalled for, not to mention disingenuous.

There's definitely something out there. What it is may astonish and amaze -- or it may end up being something we've just never figured out before and once understood, it may seem sort of silly. The truth is, we, as a people, do not know one way or the other.

Based on my personal experiences, I am in the believer camp that these are possibly extra-terrestrial or extra-dimensional beings visiting for whatever reason. I am not saying that I am right about that, it's just my belief at this point in time.

Lastly, I will freely admit that there are plenty of folks in the UFOlogy camp that are, for lack of a more fitting description, a little out of balance. Some are total whack jobs, some are sort of nutty, and others just don't seem to be able to 'hold it together.' The question you have to ask yourself in that moment of seeing that is, "What made them like that?" Was it an experience that they cannot not integrate that led them to be this way, or were they like that and feel like they have to associate with other, more outrageous seeming people (UFO convention believers) to feel like they can fit in better? Even that would be worth answering scientifically.

Now as far as governments coming out and disclosing information. I think the US hasn't (and likely won't anytime soon) because, contrary to popular point of view, there are plenty of folks in government who DON'T get elected and DON'T change with every new Presidency or Administration. They are the "glue" of our governmental organization, especially in the areas of Investigative Services, the Military and Security (like the CIA, NSA, DHS, etc.) and those folks, I'm willing to bet, advise those who advise the President. And having come from the military myself, where very little is ever explained, following orders and doing what you're told goes a long way to keeping secrets, if there are any to be had.

Only a small handful of the right people in the right places need to keep an eye on things and issue an order here and an order there and things happen without anyone really questioning it. It sounds scary, but it's really just sort of the way things really work in the military. It's very compartmentalized and if you don't have a "Need to Know" you don't get to know. Period.

The military is extremely reluctant to reveal anything that doesn't make them look good. And it's not a grand conspiracy, it's just people being people and doing the good old CYA shuffle.

I am not saying they have alien craft and technology that they've reverse engineered -- but I admit it is completely possible even if not highly probable.

I'd be willing to bet, that if there were alien artifacts and military scientists were doing their level best to reverse engineer the stuff, then the President probably doesn't have a need to know that, as far as the military is concerned. Not because it would set off a mass panic, but because it would spoil the advantage they might have if that were so. Tell the President? Are you serious? He doesn't need to know unless we have to use this stuff when he's in office. That way he's got plausible deniability.



dno

[Sadinar]

dunniteowl wrote...

[A well phrased and grammatically sound rephrasing of the belief in an extraterrestrial pressence and massive cover-up.]

While you are free to believe what you wish despite any and all contradictory evidence, I in knowing that argument is a waste of my time reserve the right to poke fun at such a decision. In my eyes, nothing in this thread has changed since page two where the psychological underpinnings of this situation were touched upon. The ensuing debate between several people who genuinely tried to patiently and rationally converse with a handful of true believers simply illustrated the point over and over again. No matter the quality or quantity of refutiation provided, people who want to believe will continue to do so and during the ensuing cognitive dissonance, will retreat further into their beliefs.

Whoah! Where did that come from? I must not have a thick enough layer of tin foil protecting me from the mind control rays!

[grregg]

dunniteowl,

Would you like me to reply to your posts? The question is perhaps strange, after all you posted on a discussion forum so a response should be expected, but I am asking because discussing personal experiences is likely to cause offense.

In the meantime I'll just address this:

dunniteowl wrote...

Based on my personal experiences, I am in the believer camp that these are possibly extra-terrestrial or extra-dimensional beings visiting for whatever reason. I am not saying that I am right about that, it's just my belief at this point in time.

I'll just point out that this statement is pretty much a credo of a faith, not really a basis for a scientific discussion. Replace 'extra-terrestrial' with 'spirits', 'angels', or what not, and you find yourself smack down in the midst of religious folk. As I said before, nothing wrong with that, but science vs. faith debates tend to turn ugly.

[Eleinehmm]

Captain Cornhole wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

90% of self-proclaimed scientists are dicks in my experience.

It's entirely relevent because they have none!  I make no sense.  Where am I? Get of MY lawn!

75% of all scientists don't know what they are talking about or have a certain agenda.  In my opinion the few exceptions are the ones that develop new scientific laws and theories such as Gravity and Plate Tectonics.  Need I remind you that when Gravity and Plate Tectonics where first proposed the majority of scientists rejected the idea. 

Again, do your work in the field? I am not claiming that scientists are better than your average fast-food folks  but  the-New-theory-gets-rejected-at-first is a very old and very ill-reputed argument that has been used by cons since the establishment of formal cultural stylistics of science .

New theory n-eq. Good theory

dunniteowl , You do realize that “my personal experience” is not an argument, right ?  

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 13 octobre 2010 - 04:40 .

[Eleinehmm]

Adriano87 wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

 "...we do not yet know all the basic laws: there is an expanding frontier of ignorance." I think this is one of the main reasons scientists do what they do - the fun of the mystery and trying to learn more about how something works.

*Richard Feynman, again.

But we Know almost all of Basic Laws.

No, just no

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 13 octobre 2010 - 04:52 .

[Eleinehmm]

Adriano87 wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

Adriano87 wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

 "...we do not yet know all the basic laws: there is an expanding frontier of ignorance." I think this is one of the main reasons scientists do what they do - the fun of the mystery and trying to learn more about how something works.

*Richard Feynman, again.

But we Know almost all of Basic Laws.

No, just no

Hello Mr. No! have you anything else to add?

That you do not understand what the Basic law is...

[Eleinehmm]

Adriano87 wrote...

so all of the laws are basic laws? do you mean ... that is bull****. trying to mixing Physic and Chemistry with Mechanic laws to create a nuclear fuel for an Airplane is considered a basic law?
the basic law is like K= 1/2mv^2

Don't try  to pin your own ideas on me -  Honestly  what  do you think  "the law-of-physics" is ?
And as we are at it - What's a Scientific law?

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 13 octobre 2010 - 05:31 .

[Eleinehmm]

Adriano87 wrote...

^ Laws of the physics are the laws about Occurrence of Physical Events, so that in every similar situation (in Mass, Force and Energy) there is going to happen similar consequences (not something else) so with certain amount of Force on a Matter with certain mass there always going to be same move [without considering other factors like Friction and Gravity, and even with considering them in every equal situation, the result is repetitive] ... its difficult for me to explain, because my English isn't good enough.

Adriano87 wrote...
But we Know almost all of Basic Laws

So you’re claiming that we know most of the cause->consequences (not mentioning the question of cause-consequences applicability) patterns of the Universe ?
Even not mentioning  questions of Mathematical applicability (for so called mathematical laws) it is pretty strange.

Adriano87 wrote.
This Ufo is a matter of Investigation, not a Plant or Animal to research on their Visual and DNAs as a Science

Unexplained phenomena certainly are matters for investigation (if that's what you mean – I don’t quite get the last part of your post), but to Razor-Occam it, the bizarre explanations like Aliens should be applied only after all non bizarre have been proven to be false.
Unfortunately, people like more story-like narrative explanations instead of, you know, halo or Brockengespenst. 

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 13 octobre 2010 - 08:37 .

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Wait, goverments have anounced this?



Links plz.