371 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

tool_bot wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

However if you eliminate the storyline entirely from something like Unreal Tournament 3 it would be a much better game, like the previous installments.  And its storyline would be better, because it wouldn't have one.  LIke the previous UT games.

I'm with you on this. I never understood why anyone would tack on a story mode to a game designed around multiplayer.

Especially a storyline that bad.  I mean I can kind of understand the need for a tutorial system but... my god

In order to make this relevant to DA 2 and DA:O, obviously if it was heavy on the Adventure game elements then Gameplay would be less of a concern.  But I can see how in this case, as I was actually going to coutnerpoint the original quote with a relevance to Rogue Galaxy (and it fits with UT3 in a way), if the storyline is actually worse it can make the gameplay a chore.  

[tool_bot]

the_one_54321 wrote...

But the thing that particularly bugs me when people complain about realistic imagery, be it weapon sizes or motions, or artistic styling, is that abo****ely nothing about DA:O was every "realistic" to begin with.

Because I never complained about inconsistency or what I felt were poor class stereotypes or-

you know what, it doesn't matter.

You realize it's possible that even if we did enjoy Origins we would have liked to see some things changed, right?

[Icinix]

^ I'm yet to see a game that is 'realistic'. And not just because their games, but because real life is usually boring.

'Good morning, what would you like for breakfast?'

'Thaks Alistair. Have any eggs?'

'Nope.'

'Bread?'

'Nope.'

'Dried meat?'

'Nope.'

'Perhaps I will go on a quest to find some breakfast then?'

[Rakumn]

Realism in weaponry is just something some people, including myself, enjoy seeing in such games like this.


Same thing with if you stab a man in the heart, he dies. (And he does die, mind you. Morigan has even said such a thing. )

Modifié par Rakumn, 11 octobre 2010 - 03:53 .

[the_one_54321]

Icinix wrote...
'Perhaps I will go on a quest to find some breakfast then?'

I go on such a quest every Sunday! Today's quest was particularly profitable. I got a bit of free food as a result of being such a loyal adventurer!

[Meltemph]

I dunno, after looking through google images... I'm really not seeing what there is to complain about. I mean, the swords are not that much bigger, specially when you add the fact that there things like the Qunari that are going to need 2h great swords as well.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Without getting into the debate of whether they look silly or not, I'll just say we used to swing weapons twice their weight for goddam hours (yes, hours) without a break as an exercise back in the army. So, if you're having trouble handling a two-hander like Hawke did, you're either not an adult yet or, to be blunt, a wimp. Not to mention a warrior is most likely a weaponmaster who has spent some time training his body and skill alike.

[tool_bot]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Without getting into the debate of whether they look silly or not, I'll just say we used to swing weapons twice their weight for goddam hours (yes, hours) without a break as an exercise back in the army.

Question I've always had. Did you guys ever have to do manual of arms with your footlockers?

Totally unrelated to the topic but I don't know any soldiers and well you're here so...

Modifié par tool_bot, 11 octobre 2010 - 04:37 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

tool_bot wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Without getting into the debate of whether they look silly or not, I'll just say we used to swing weapons twice their weight for goddam hours (yes, hours) without a break as an exercise back in the army.

Question I've always had. Did you guys ever have to do manual of arms with your footlockers?

Totally unrelated to the topic but I don't know any soldiers and well you're here so...

Only for fun. Otherwise I never heard of any plungemaster forcing such silliness.

[AxelBat]

I don't see the problem, it's not like it's unrealistically huge, plus that's fantasy role playing! I love huge swords and bulking armor! It makes me feel badass!



If you want to complain about big swords go to FFVII's forums or something

[tool_bot]

AxelBat wrote...

If you want to complain about big swords go to FFVII's forums or something

In all seriousness don't. You don't want to hear the million and one lore based explanations on why Cloud and all SOLDIERs use those ungodly things.

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

They are made from dragonbone which is very light. Have you ever swung one? You'll know what I mean when you have.

[Ortaya Alevli]

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

They are made from dragonbone which is very light. Have you ever swung one? You'll know what I mean when you have.

//**END OF THREAD**

end;

[Finnegone]

It's called "Art Direction" for a reason.



Love it, hate it, or leave it - it's a fictional world, with fictional rules, and (gasp) fictional weapons. BW's artists have rendered that world, the execution of those rules, and the models for those weapons in ways they believe will enhance the story, attract a variety of diffferent players, and - hopefullly - support strong product sales.



This reminds me of the endless debates on the ME2 forums about why the majority of the NPCs wore simple rebreathers, rather than full helmets, when wandering around hostile environs. What I found most interesting was the amount of angst - and I mean real anger, supported by real (and sometimes quite marvelous) science that presented a strong argument (though why one was needed was beyond me) for why these characters needed helmets, else "immersion" (whatever that might means) would be "broken". The case for more realistic physics / helmets and what-not continued long after the game was released, and long after 99% of the fans played through the game and either a) didn't give a **** in the first place, or shrugged and said, "it's a game, so who cares".



Moral of the story: I hope you (and here I'm addressing the vocal minority of fans who have seen snippets of the game and have decided that 2-handed weapons are too large) aren't holding out too much hope about getting the size of said weapons reduced any time in the future, because it's not going to happen.



And by the way - I'm pretty sure BW slowed down 2-handed weapon animation, not because a number of realists believed (and - I'm sure - quite rightly believed) that they were unrealistically fast. Rather, it was a game balancing issue that was easily addressed by reducing the warrior's standard AOE DPS by slowing down the animation. Added benefit: more "realistic" weapon speed, whatever that means.

[Rakumn]

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

They are made from dragonbone which is very light. Have you ever swung one? You'll know what I mean when you have.

If they're light like bird bones, they'de be hollow and incredibly brittle.

[tool_bot]

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

They are made from dragonbone which is very light. Have you ever swung one? You'll know what I mean when you have.

Oh? What's the hardness of dragonbone and how easily is it made into armor?

[upsettingshorts]

Finnegone wrote...
Moral of the story: I hope you (and here I'm addressing the vocal minority of fans who have seen snippets of the game and have decided that 2-handed weapons are too large) aren't holding out too much hope about getting the size of said weapons reduced any time in the future, because it's not going to happen.

I'm not, and by far my biggest issue with anyone disputing my dislike of the big/silly swords is their miscategorizing my aesthetic preferences as somehow being important to me, despite my repeated denials to the contrary.

The art direction has decided that they look cool that way.  I don't think they do.  That's all there is to it.  It's not going to stop me from buying the game, playing a 2H warrior again, or using a 2H sword.  

[Vicious]

The art direction has decided that they look cool that way. I don't think they do. That's all there is to it. It's not going to stop me from buying the game, playing a 2H warrior again, or using a 2H sword.

Every time I see a normal person post something normal like this, I give a sigh of relief.



It's a fresh break from the normal 'im not buying the game because of XXX feature, but I will also not stop complaining even after everyone has heard my say!' hissy fits.



So if this board had ratings, i'd give you a +1.

[Rakumn]

Blast from the past: There were small uproars about our characters in DA:O not becoming voiced. Dragon Age 2 delivers what (some) fans wanted.

I'm not saying I have a huge problem with it, or that their art is bad, but they've already created a "model" for how they make weapons in DA. Realism is factored into it. Big weapons are slow, duel wielding can miss a lot, and shields can knock a fellow down. I would say it's like being caught off guard to see such a large sword swing that fast (And I know, they're slowing it down) in such a game, though not to the extensibility as being "caught off guard", just somewhat surprised.
I'm hoping they do something about it, and if they don't, then so be it. I only think it'd be more "fitting" to the given setting if they were to.

Also, quick tip. Don't need to be pessimistic. "because it's not going to happen." Well, actually, looking back. Several things /have/ happened. The forums are for feedback, and Bioware /does/ look at it. So I'd be careful to speak with such certainty.

All in all, it's something that irked me. I give my feedback. It's something small, and won't hinder my enjoyment of the game when I buy DA2.

Modifié par Rakumn, 11 octobre 2010 - 05:04 .

[Finnegone]

Rakumn wrote...

Also, quick tip. Don't need to be pessimistic. "because it's not going to happen." Well, actually, looking back. Several things /have/ happened. The forums are for feedback, and Bioware /does/ look at it. So I'd be careful to speak with such certainty.

Good point. I should have said - "given that this is (I would imagine) a very low priority item (if it's a priority at all), as they have about 6 months left to finish, test and launch the game, I sincerely doubt it's going to happen."

And you're absolutely right: BW does listen to fans - certainly better than many similarly sized developers. However, they also quite faithfully (and quite rightly) adhere to King Henry V's famous dictum "We are the makers of manners". That's what good innovators do - they create a market, rather than adapt their products to an existing one (look at Apple, for example, over the last five years) -  and incorporating every bit of feedback from every vocal customer is a surefire way to break a good idea.

[Lurklen]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

At least this isn't the Mass Effect forum. If it turns into that we'll be having this thread 10 months after launch.

Granted I honestly think that this would be more of an issue from a design standpoint than anything in ME but whatever not much of a bother. The only thing I don't like, and this is across all Fantasy games (but I would not be as crass to call it ****ing stupid like female character designs) would be the hilt design as the Crusades design would have no precedent as there is no similar religious context with the same imagery anyway.

 Right maybe the reason isn't the same but it's not like the cross shaped hilt is a really out there shape it's just a wider version of the shape that a lot of cultures used. So I don't see it as that strange that other cultures would develop similar looking weapon designs to ours. Though I do have to say it's not super creative, there are a ton of really neat sword designs that never get touched and even some of the more modern ones are unique enough while still looking like something that was intended for use. 
 
But you have to consider the position the artists are in, if they start getting all ecreative with the weapon designs they'll have even more people yelling at them for making crazy swords that look like they're from a JRPG just because to most people the cross design is just what a sword is supposed to look like.

Modifié par Lurklen, 11 octobre 2010 - 05:33 .

[augustburnt]

Archereon wrote...

Have you ever held anything comparable in weight (and length) to an actual weapon?  Maybe its just because my dad collects these sorts of things, but damn, the idea that you could wield a greatsword effectively in one hand, much less twirl it about like a baton, is absolutely absurd, as is the length of weapon's hilt. 

I might be the only person who finds his ability to suspend disbelief challenged by particularly egregrious displays of something that actually exists (swordplay, which believe it or not exists outside of Tolkein's work/the waves of generic fantasy that followed), more than it is by something clearly not intended to reflect reality in any way (magic, whether literal, or in the guise of the dubious "technology" that permiates most science fiction)

Your judging a practiced heroes strenght in comparison to your own. Remember this game took place before technology did all your work for you, people back then were much much more physicly fit.

[tmp7704]

the_one_54321 wrote...

But the thing that particularly bugs me when people complain about realistic imagery, be it weapon sizes or motions, or artistic styling, is that abo****ely nothing about DA:O was every "realistic" to begin with.

Well, i was complaining about it in DAO too. Wouldn't bother to mod them for myself otherwise

And it's not really that things are unrealistic... it's rather purely the appearances don't mesh with my sense of aesthetics. Swords and daggers so large yet fairly crude, especially when tinted with the default colours the game uses just give me sensation they're but plastic tacky toys, and that's as far from "cool" they possibly intended as it can get.

[Lurklen]

tmp7704 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

But the thing that particularly bugs me when people complain about realistic imagery, be it weapon sizes or motions, or artistic styling, is that abo****ely nothing about DA:O was every "realistic" to begin with.

Well, i was complaining about it in DAO too. Wouldn't bother to mod them for myself otherwise

And it's not really that things are unrealistic... it's rather purely the appearances don't mesh with my sense of aesthetics. Swords and daggers so large yet fairly crude, especially when tinted with the default colours the game uses just give me sensation they're but plastic tacky toys, and that's as far from "cool" they possibly intended as it can get.

 What I'd like to see is that being more of a Ferelden thing. I know there were a lot of weapons from other parts of the world, but I still think it would be neat if Ferelden just had a tendency towards large weapons, as in it's just a style their culture is prone to. And daggers should just have been called short swords.

Modifié par Lurklen, 11 octobre 2010 - 05:47 .

[Rakumn]

Lurklen wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

But the thing that particularly bugs me when people complain about realistic imagery, be it weapon sizes or motions, or artistic styling, is that abo****ely nothing about DA:O was every "realistic" to begin with.

Well, i was complaining about it in DAO too. Wouldn't bother to mod them for myself otherwise

And it's not really that things are unrealistic... it's rather purely the appearances don't mesh with my sense of aesthetics. Swords and daggers so large yet fairly crude, especially when tinted with the default colours the game uses just give me sensation they're but plastic tacky toys, and that's as far from "cool" they possibly intended as it can get.

 What I'd like to see is that being more of a Ferelden thing. I know there were a lot of weapons from other parts of the world, but I still think it would be neat if Ferelden just had a tendency towards large weapons, as in it's just a style their culture is prone to. And daggers should just have been called short swords.

That'd being possible, I'd hope the speed for all weapons would be modified to fit such a change.