371 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Sir JK wrote...

Yes, but that is due to the exponential size increase of each category of sword.

Sure, but i'm not getting into "why", merely disagreeing that "daggers are that long" -- i pointed out they're longer and since you acknowledge yourself they are in fact scaled up, in the end we seem to have consensus here.

edit:

It's just like firearms in movies and games... they toss their target back to show the force in them. In RL they couldn't possibly do that (newton's law... if they toss their victim back... they also toss their shooter back), but they show it to portray the force in the gun.

Like this, you mean?  or
(or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxEUlh6rytI&NR=1 if you aren't careful...)

if i'm not mistaken this effect is in part lessened by guns being designed to direct some of the force downward, that's why it goes up on recoil.

Modifié par tmp7704, 12 octobre 2010 - 12:00 .

[1varangian]

I'll have to agree that that the greatsword animations in the gameplay footage looked bad. The weapons had no mass and the lightspeed swings looked weak instead of powerful. Also the twirling in the character selection screen made the weapons look weightless and powerless.

And the weapons generally are a little too big which makes them look more like toys. Especially the swords that are too broad and thick and look blunt as a result.

Modifié par 1varangian, 11 octobre 2010 - 11:57 .

[Kileyan]

slimgrin wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Rakumn wrote...

The demo's were exaggerated. Combat wise, and I suspect weapon-size wise, too.

Doubtful, it is unlikely that they made a whole set of new weapon models for a small part. Those are prob the acual size and wont change from "exagerated" to "real" gameplay

^ This is my thinking as well. I don't like the size of the sword mainly because it crosses over into God of War territory. I like something to be more believable for my rpg's. But hey, DA has some gargantuan weapons and armor as well.

If I recall, one of the Bioware guys said if you don't like THAT big sword, then use a different 2-hander. Leads me to believe not all the swords will be huge.

Honestly it doesn't bother me at all. I can make up any reasoning, the sword is big but handles like a normal human size sword due to magic!

But but, why is it so big anyway? Perhaps in the ancient times it was made, fighting huge ogres or dragons was very common. They found out bigger peices of metal worked better vs big things, so huge swords were enchanted to cut into these large creatures vitals, yet remain controllable by ordinary sized human beings. Heck I dunno, I'm sure people can nitpick any rationalization but thats my story and I'm sticking to it for now.

I'm no apologist for Bioware, I'll be the first to complain if they go WoW or anime huge swords, but so far, from what we've seen, it just happen to be below my rant and rage threshold:)

Modifié par Kileyan, 12 octobre 2010 - 12:54 .

[Archereon]

joriandrake wrote...

I start to get pissed at the "realism horde" because those who complain don't even know what the real size of swords and such were, plus DA takes place in a fantasy setting with ahistorical cultures thus material and look of weapons don't have to be exact copies of RL anyway. I don't see any problem at all with the weapons in DA2 even though I do have complains about DA2, actually a real claymore could even be a bit longer than what is in the game atm, and I would prefer to see some asian inspired weapons, or atleast standard spears and halberds.

The DA2 sword is, whatever it is, definately not meant to be wielded that way.

The blade is more than half of the length of the weapon, making it definately not a proper greatsword (a long hilt for a greatsword is a quarter of the length), yet they're twirling a huge weapon around like a baton.

[Archereon]

slimgrin wrote...

I understand its for aesthetics, and its really not a huge issue for me, but honestly I thought DA fell into the same trap of exaggerating these types of things.

They have said they are going for a unique visual flair for the game and I suppose they are achieving that. I just don't want them to lean to heavily on style.

They have the perfect template in ME2, which has its own unique look, and is still highly believable.

Mass Effect?  Believable?

Yeah, get back to me after you sort out how Batman half of your team can breathe in space, why space battles take place at distances of a few kilometers at most, and why Mass Effects have suddenly become a green latern ring in mineral form.

[Archereon]

scyphozoa wrote...

You guys have to understand the difference between "believable" and "realism"

Realism suggests an element is trying to reflect something by real word standards.

Believable is not bound to realism. Example, if you see a Hurlock or a High Dragon in Mass Effect, that is belief-suspending. That doesn't make it any more realistic or unrealistic than a Reaper, it means it is conflicting with the setting and context.

The immersion and believability of the context is suspended because an element defies the rest of the context around it.

Yes, and seeing a 20 foot long sword in a dark, gritty fantasy setting is entirely believable.

[Wicked 702]

I'm confused. Are people complaining about an ARTISTIC choice, therefore rendering a valid opinion on a subjective concept, or are they complaining about the use of unrealistic weapons in an fantasy/imaginary world?

The first is certainly worthy of discussion. The second...well that must seriously make your life hell, huh? I mean, are you capable of watching movies like Star Wars and avoid criticizing that fact that a lightsaber, as portrayed in the film, is completely unrealistic? Or are you capable of recognizing that it's a FANTASY world, i.e. not REAL, and just GO WITH IT?

Modifié par Wicked 702, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:26 .

[upsettingshorts]

Wicked 702 wrote...

I'm confused. Are people complaining about an ARTISTIC choice, therefore rendering a valid opinion on a subjective concept, or are they complaining about the use of unrealistic weapons in an fantasy/imaginary world?

The first is certainly worthy of discussion. The second...well that must seriously make your life hell, huh? I mean, are you capable of watching movies like Star Wars and avoid criticizing that fact that a lightsaber, as portrayed in the film, is completely unrealistic. Or are you capable of recognizing that it's a FANTASY world, i.e. not REAL, and just GO WITH IT?

The former, but apparently we can get dragged into explaining why we dislike it - which is basically irrelevant as you say - and that moves the conversation into the latter.

Personally I just don't like the artistic choice.

Edit: So to expand on that using your example, if lightsabers were suddenly made to be as tall as a man with blades as wide as a nerf bat, I'd hate that too.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:31 .

[Archereon]

Wicked 702 wrote...

I'm confused. Are people complaining about an ARTISTIC choice, therefore rendering a valid opinion on a subjective concept, or are they complaining about the use of unrealistic weapons in an fantasy/imaginary world?

The first is certainly worthy of discussion. The second...well that must seriously make your life hell, huh? I mean, are you capable of watching movies like Star Wars and avoid criticizing that fact that a lightsaber, as portrayed in the film, is completely unrealistic? Or are you capable of recognizing that it's a FANTASY world, i.e. not REAL, and just GO WITH IT?

Both, in a way.  We're (or at least, many of us) are complaining about the fact that weapons that look like they came from Final Fantasy 7 are being inserted into a game that is largely unsurreal, and rather dark and gritty.  The primary themes of the game clash with the artistic style as we've seen it so far, unless someone has gone and changed the game into a sugarbowl fantasy.

[Wicked 702]

Well criticizing the issue for being unrealistic is certainly a valid reason, but I highly doubt I'll find consistency in the answers. Unless the person constantly criticizes every imaginary world for these same reasons, they're not really defining the issue properly.

Edit: What I'm trying to get at is, why would one unrealistic thing bother you and another not? Why were you willing to accept one but not the other? That's where it starts getting vague for me...

Modifié par Wicked 702, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:36 .

[upsettingshorts]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Well criticizing the issue for being unrealistic is certainly a valid reason, but I highly doubt I'll find consistency in the answers. Unless the person constantly criticizes every imaginary world for these same reasons, they're not really defining the issue well.

Which is why ultimately it's just my opinion.  If I could replace every oversized weapon in the game with a replacement model based on something from the real world I'd do it.  Not because of some burning desire for realism, just because I think real weapons look cooler.

Just to restate, it's not that I want "real" weapons because they're real.  I want them because I prefer how they look.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:36 .

[Archereon]

slimgrin wrote...

Archereon wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I understand its for aesthetics, and its really not a huge issue for me, but honestly I thought DA fell into the same trap of exaggerating these types of things.

They have said they are going for a unique visual flair for the game and I suppose they are achieving that. I just don't want them to lean to heavily on style.

They have the perfect template in ME2, which has its own unique look, and is still highly believable.

Mass Effect?  Believable?

Yeah, get back to me after you sort out how Batman half of your team can breathe in space, why space battles take place at distances of a few kilometers at most, and why Mass Effects have suddenly become a green latern ring in mineral form.

I thought we were discussing aesthetics here.  

No matter. Convincing would have been a better word to use. The sword seems unconvincing in its heft and weight, whereas in ME2 all the weapons are portrayed very well.

To those scoffing at the realism argument, well, maybe the swords can be twenty feet long. After all, this is fantasy.

First of all, to anyone who knows the first thing about space travel, 99% of fictional spacecraft are absolutely ridiculous, look nothing like any real world designs, and honestly make us facepalm (ironically, my interest in science is what puts me off from science fiction as a genre).

Modifié par Archereon, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:36 .

[Wicked 702]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

Well criticizing the issue for being unrealistic is certainly a valid reason, but I highly doubt I'll find consistency in the answers. Unless the person constantly criticizes every imaginary world for these same reasons, they're not really defining the issue well.

Which is why ultimately it's just my opinion.  If I could replace every oversized weapon in the game with a replacement model based on something from the real world I'd do it.  Not because of some burning desire for realism, just because I think real weapons look cooler.

Just to restate, it's not that I want "real" weapons because they're real.  I want them because I prefer how they look.

Ah so you want the realistic weapons for aesthetic appeal, rather than some scientific reason. That makes sense.

[upsettingshorts]

Archereon wrote...
First of all, to anyone who knows the first thing about space travel, 99% of fictional spacecraft are absolutely ridiculous, look nothing like any real world designs, and honestly make us facepalm (ironically, my interest in science is what puts me off from science fiction as a genre).

Watch Babylon 5 then?  Human ships have rotating sections, obey Newtonian physics, only have aerodynamic properties if they are intended to be used in an atmosphere, and use one of the more clever technologies to get around the concept of FTL.  

(off topic)

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:38 .

[Kileyan]

Wicked 702 wrote...

I'm confused. Are people complaining about an ARTISTIC choice, therefore rendering a valid opinion on a subjective concept, or are they complaining about the use of unrealistic weapons in an fantasy/imaginary world?

The first is certainly worthy of discussion. The second...well that must seriously make your life hell, huh? I mean, are you capable of watching movies like Star Wars and avoid criticizing that fact that a lightsaber, as portrayed in the film, is completely unrealistic? Or are you capable of recognizing that it's a FANTASY world, i.e. not REAL, and just GO WITH IT?

I think many of the complaints are not real issues with people. This is just their chance to use the mostly useless knowledge they have collected over the years on the subject of 17th century melee weapons, and actually put it to use. When I say useless, I don't mean that as an insult. I have many useless hobbies, I am thrilled to discuss when that arcane knowledge becomes even a tiny bit relevant:) Sometime to annoying degrees.

I find it impossible to believe that anyone is truly "appalled or insulted" by these weapons, or will even notice them that much once they get behind the wheel and start mowing down bad guys.

It is just something to obsess over until the next reveal of a party member or something. Then it starts all over again, because that party member was using an unrealistic bow or dagger.

Modifié par Kileyan, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:39 .

[upsettingshorts]

Kileyan wrote...
I find it impossible to believe that anyone is truly "appalled or insulted" by these weapons, or will even notice them that much once they get behind the wheel and start mowing down bad guys.

It is just something to obsess over until the next reveal of a party member or something. Then it starts all over again, because that party member was using an unrealistic bow or dagger.

I noticed it near constantly in Age of Conan when my female 2H barbarian had a sword so long that it looked as if the tip of it was dragging in the dirt behind her.  What happened when my annoyance with it grew to the point that I had to vent, I complained about silly it looked in Global chat until I calmed down.  It usually took about 15 seconds in total, so "calmed down" in the sense that I wasn't all that angry to begin with, just irritated.

Granted, that is a game where one of the fatalities is ripping someone's head clean off their neck, so any sense of realism was fairly relative.

Edit: But ultimately the reason I didn't like it wasn't because of realism - as I genuinely had less of an issue watching that same female barbarian swing the sword about to decapitate people, it was just when it was on her back dragging along the ground that I was bothered.  Entirely an aesthetic issue, I just didn't think it looked cool.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:43 .

[Archereon]

slimgrin wrote...

Archereon wrote...

First of all, to anyone who knows the first thing about space travel, 99% of fictional spacecraft are absolutely ridiculous, look nothing like any real world designs, and honestly make us facepalm (ironically, my interest in science is what puts me off from science fiction as a genre).

Then you and I are criticizing two very different things.

You're derailing your own thread, by the way.

I know...I try not to...

Well, back on topic: You're right, its not an unspeakable insult, or something that will stop me from buying the game (though the horrifically bad animation quality we've seen so far in leaked videos, should it turn out to be the fault of the game rather than the recorder might), just an artistic choice that I find particularly annoying.

[Wicked 702]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I noticed it near constantly in Age of Conan when my female 2H barbarian had a sword so long that it looked as if the tip of it was dragging in the dirt behind her.  What happened when my annoyance with it grew to the point that I had to vent, I complained about silly it looked in Global chat until I calmed down.  It usually took about 15 seconds in total, so "calmed down" in the sense that I wasn't all that angry to begin with, just irritated.

YES! They should make every greatsword so long that it clips through the ground constantly. Just kidding.

[addiction21]

Ya I have yet to grasp this FF7 comparison going on. Sure that single 2H sword we have seen is a little wide for my liking but then again that one item is in no way comparable to those swords in FF7 (or several other FF games) and nothing in DAO or what we have seen of DA2 leads me to believe that will be the standard. Lots of Hyperbole getting flung around here.