21 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolfcloudchaser]

I've taken quite a break from the game, so I'm out of date on patches and other developments over the past few months. I've read that archers are viable now, but the things I read indicated that they're viable in Awakening, which I don't have (and the only DLC I have is the golem thing).

So. . . is it worth playing an archer without having Awakening?

What's the ideal build for a rogue archer if they are decent?

[Elhanan]

I like high DEX and STR; many go with DEX and CUNNING & Lethality.

[termokanden]

They are OK at best. Problem is their activated skills are too slow, and some of them are pretty bad compared to what DW gets, for example.

For a rogue archer, I think 22 cunning and max dex is an interesting build. You'll be very hard to kill. But high dex/str and dex/cun with Lethality are also good. The only combination that's really bad is high strength and cunning at the same time, for obvious reasons

As for specializations, I'm personally a big fan of Song of Courage (Bard) so I'd grab that one for sure. Assassin is kind of pointless for an archer, so that leaves two excellent choices for the second specialization. Duelist and Ranger are both great, and I can't decide which is best

Modifié par termokanden, 11 octobre 2010 - 01:58 .

[miltos33]

Personally, I wouldn't play a pure Archer before or without Awakening. However, an Archer/DW hybrid is a fun and versatile build. I would recommend the passive skills of the first line but not the activated skills of the second line.

[Wolfcloudchaser]

Thanks a lot for the replies. Kinda what I figured. I may end up trying out Awakening eventually, but I was honestly kinda let down by the base game, so I may delay until it's at bargain prices. I love the idea of the new Keeper specialization, since casters are my favorite role and I tend toward druid types.



I tend to be a bit of a min/maxer and want to squeeze out all the performance I can, but maybe a hybrid DW/Archer would be interesting.

[Mccoyn1990]

Personally I like archers the most in Dragon age Origins, That was the first character I created and the only kind, I really like to use other than my Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage Epic build

[BootOnFace]

Archers can be insane, but they need at least one of their 4th tier talents before they become good. Just beeline for Arrow of Slaying, and your Archer can hold his own.

Modifié par BootOnFace, 17 octobre 2010 - 12:15 .

[Jon Jern_]

All I have to say to Awakening archers once I bought it Thursday...



Overpowered.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

That can be applied to about all the classes in Awakening. Though archers are a bit more so with a near assured 100% critical chance on regular hits with only a little work.

[Elhanan]

BootOnFace wrote...

Archers can be insane, but they need at least one of their 4th tier talents before they become good. Just beeline for Arrow of Slaying, and your Archer can hold his own.

I would correct this by saying that Archers have superb 4th tier talents, which are much better than some other 4th tier selections seen by other weapon and selections

Before Archers get such Talents, I believe they are still good with Precise Strike, Dueling, Shattering Shot, Critical Shot, Pinning Shot, Suppresive Fire, Aim, etc helping them gain ground.. After gaining Master Archer, AoS, and Scattershot, they are great.

[termokanden]

The thing about archer talents is that apart from Scattershot, they're not really better than the melee talents.



Why is that important? It is because every activated archery talent stops your DPS for what seems like an eternity. Melee talents on the other hand are instant. I'll never understand why they made it this way, because it's one of the big problems with archery.



If it didn't really hurt your DPS, it would be nice to debuff enemies with special attacks. But now, unlike a melee character, you have to choose between DPS and debuffing/CC.



This isn't even improved in Awakening. They just overbuffed archer damage instead.

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

The thing about archer talents is that apart from Scattershot, they're not really better than the melee talents.

Why is that important? It is because every activated archery talent stops your DPS for what seems like an eternity. Melee talents on the other hand are instant. I'll never understand why they made it this way, because it's one of the big problems with archery.

If it didn't really hurt your DPS, it would be nice to debuff enemies with special attacks. But now, unlike a melee character, you have to choose between DPS and debuffing/CC.

This isn't even improved in Awakening. They just overbuffed archer damage instead.

An incoming missle with various warheads that carries no Friendly Fire* worries; cost is time. And this cost is reduced thru both talents and item features.

While a DW is speedy at dicing a single target, it still takes ample time to go from one target to the next.

While a 2H can devestate a single for quickly, getting to the next target can also be costly.

It appears to me to be smaoke & mirrors. Because the Warrior is moving and interacts with the opponent, it may appear faster. But when the Warden can stand ready on the field of battle and simply pivot  to select the next target, they become artillery: observer, fire directional control, and delivery system all in one. 

* Until Awakenings talents are introduced.

[termokanden]

It is an advantage, but not always. Quite often melee enemies will just group up. The most annoying thing for a melee character is rogue archers, because they run all over the place. If you get close, they use Dirty Fighting and run away. So irritating!



Still, that doesn't have anything to do with archery *talents* being weak. Autoattacks have the benefit of range too. Many of the melee talents are several quick strikes with debuffs/stuns/guaranteed crits. The ranged talents generally don't deal enough damage compared.



Scattershot is the exception to the rule. It is an awesome talent, and well worth the wait.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

That is my biggest annoyance about Archery. All of my current builds for Warden and party companion just focus on Master Archer and Shattershot on high armor/rank targets then Scattershot, tactics only include using those talents, otherwise they auto attack only.



On the plus side, this makes Awakening archers even more survivable with the Legionnaire talent Endure Pain turning their largely unused stamina into more hit points.



Origins side, I keep them back, give them Rapid Aim bows and gear and let them pepper enemies as they approach. Coordinated attacks can drop a third or more of the charging enemies before they even get into melee range. When they do, switch to dual daggers with the top and bottom talent line up to tier 3 and mow them down after mage/dog lights off an AoE stun for their coup de grace.

[IAmTheExplorer]

http://dragonage.wik...icient_Approach here is a very thorough, if perhaps too extensive guide on archers. I just finished the game with a solo archer and it's been great fun. To sum up a little:

-For maximum damage and very good utility (traps, lockpicking, etc) you should invest all of your points in CUN (except for the DEX points needed to get all the archery talents and maybe STR points if your items don't boost your STR enough to wear Tier 7 light armor) and get the Lethality talent ASAP. This is only viable with a good tank in your party, since you'll have poor defense. Alternatively, you can use %chance to avoid attacks item if you don't have a tank.
This build also requires to pick Bard for specialization and mantain song of courage at all times to truly deal more damage than a DEX based build.

If you go CUN rogue, be sure to pick equipment that raises your Crit damage and Crit chance, since you can reach 100% Crit chance with the right items, which is awesome.

-DEX focused archers are less powerful damage-wise and you'll have to invest points in Lockpicking, but they are also far more resilient as DEX gives you defense. In a well-optimized party in which every member fulfills his purpose perfectly and there is a clearly defined tank. If you don't like to optimize your builds or gameplay strategy, or if you don't have a dedicated tank, this is a better option since you can almost cover the tank role and deal decent damage too. If you're planning to do Solo, I'd say the DEX build is mandatory as you have no one to soak up damage.

-Mark of death (Assassin) is pretty good for both builds. As for archery talents, the only one worth it is Scattershot and perhaps Arrow of Slaying to kill mages before they cast. The only archery sustainable worth it is IMO aim if you have enough items with Rapid Aim to make up for the decreased firing speed.

-Keep in mind archers are support oriented, and they main strength resides in being able to instantly help wherever they're needed thanks to their attack range. Do not expect them to win battles by themselves.

Hope this helped!

[DWSmiley]

IAmTheExplorer wrote...

-Mark of death (Assassin) is pretty good for both builds. As for archery talents, the only one worth it is Scattershot and perhaps Arrow of Slaying to kill mages before they cast. The only archery sustainable worth it is IMO aim if you have enough items with Rapid Aim to make up for the decreased firing speed.

I also like Suppressing Fire vs. tough melee opponents like revenants.  And while MoD is very nice, I find it hard to resist Dueling.  Even Dex archers miss a lot early to mid game, so +10 attack is appealing.

[chefbobby203]

Hit rate tends to be the real problem I have with archers early on. I guess if you are going with a cunning build it is best to go bard/duelist for SoC and dueling combined(rally probably would be needed too)? I love MoD, but I love hitting my targets even more

[DWSmiley]

chefbobby203 wrote...

Hit rate tends to be the real problem I have with archers early on. I guess if you are going with a cunning build it is best to go bard/duelist for SoC and dueling combined(rally probably would be needed too)? I love MoD, but I love hitting my targets even more

Yep.  My last cunning archer was a real party animal, so to speak - she provided Courage to everyone and received Rally and Heroic Offense in return.  She finished with a 90% hit rate but, really, she never missed after reaching level 14.  But leaving Lothering her hit rate was barely over 60%.

In comparison, my last dex warrior archer finished with a 93% hit rate, though without buffs from others.

[chefbobby203]

I guess it kind of depends on how effectively you control your party. As long as you can overcome the low hitrate early you are rewarded with higher damage(for the whole party too with SoC). If I had any desire to play an archer at all I would probably try a high CUN build

[tonnactus]

Are crossbows fixed at least in Awakening? I read that neither strenght or dexterity improve the damage of crossbows in Origins.

[Elhanan]

AFAIK, crossbows are still best used for sales.

[tonnactus]

That sucks.I like crossbows more then bows.