64 réponses à ce sujet

[Praetor Knight]

the Pancor Jackhammer kinda reminds me of the Mattock, firing solid slugs though.

and the OICW reminds me of the revenant, but also mattock (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM29)

this one reminds me of the widow http://world.guns.ru...nade/gl34-e.htm, with inferno:devil:

edit: messed up the urls, fixed now

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 11 octobre 2010 - 06:20 .

[pacer90]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Of course I have. I had to be in military for 2 years (was compulsory for all men in my country at that time). I trained with a lot of weapons and AK47 is one of them. It may not be the most accurate or deadliest in the World, but it sure is a hell of a weapon. I think it is the most used AR ever.

Most used does not mean "the greatest". AK is rugged, powerful enough, and adequately accurate (when not fired from the hip Jihadi style). It is the most used because it is cheap and easy to use. Lots of irregulars and poorer countries have it as their main rifle. Some countries, Finland and Israel included, have created higher quality "copies" that are an improvement over the standard AK.

My point was that Avenger is the worst AR in the game, by far. AK47 (and its variants) is one of the best/greatest (obviously not the most effective today, considering it was created more than 60 years ago, but in all-time sense) AR ever made and it does not fire spitballs.

Worst is a relative term, considering there are just two available in the below Hardcore vanilla game... The Avenger is clearly not the "worst" AR in the ME universe, if you go by fluff text. It's just the worst AR available to Shep's spec ops group. In fact, the weapons' description kinda reads like a "Space AK" would:

"The reliability and effectiveness of the Avenger Assault Rifle in almost any battle condition makes it the weapon of choice for mercenaries and soldiers alike. The Avenger Assault Rifle (and its variants) is a workhorse weapon with low recoil and high accuracy. Its collapsible frame is light, yet substantial, and flexible ammunition load-out allows users to adapt firepower to any opponent-including synthetics."

Ok, well, disregard the "accurate"...  But it's clearly intended as the AK of the Terminus: widely used workhorse weapon, for both mercs and military. What other assault rifle would you pick over the AK for that description?

You seem stuck on the lower damage (spit balls lol)? Very well, consider this the 5,45mm AK then. Supposedly that cartridge wasn't very satisfactory and left soldiers wishing to have the old 7,62 (short) back.

Exactly for the bolded reasons you stated, I thought the Avenger is a word for word copy of the AK 47.

[fongiel24]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Isn't the second (real) weapon also known as the KRISS?

I believe the name Kriss refers to the unique recoil-control mechanism the weapon is built around. The SMG itself is marketed as the Vector.

[fongiel24]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

the Pancor Jackhammer kinda reminds me of the Mattock, firing solid slugs though.

and the OICW reminds me of the revenant, but also mattock (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM29)

this one reminds me of the widow http://world.guns.ru...nade/gl34-e.htm, with inferno:devil:

edit: messed up the urls, fixed now

The 25mm grenade launcher mounted on the OICW would have been awesome to have in ME2, especially considering that the in-game heavy weapon grenade launcher is crap.

[swk3000]

I'd have to agree that the Avenger would equate to the AK-47. Sure, there are better pieces out there in just about every category, but the AK-47 is still a solid weapon.



As for the Widow, I'll second the Denel NTW-20. It's got much the same purpose as the Widow. And for me, the purpose is what we're looking at, not the looks.

[JaegerBane]

I think the Avenger/AK-47 is a bit off.

The Avenger is a popular assault rifle, just like the AK, true - but unlike the AK, it's relatively new, fires relatively small rounds, and hits relatively mildly. It's more like an M4.

If anything, I personally think the Mattock/Ak-47 is a far more apt comparison. Both guns are decades old, reliable, shoot big rounds, hit hard, and make a hell of a racket when firing. Pretty much the only thing they don't share is the full-auto setting, which, to be honest, is rarely an effective use of the AK anyway.

In terms of role, I'd assume the Revenant is very much a SAW, like the M249, while the Viper is very much a H&K G3. The Scimitar is pretty clearly inspired by the SPAS-12 and the Tempest is a clear analogue to the MAC-10. The Locust is a Vector equivalent, as mentioned.

If only there was a ME version of the G36 - i.e. an assault rifle that was actually good...

Modifié par JaegerBane, 12 octobre 2010 - 05:08 .

[Mox Ruuga]

JaegerBane wrote...

I think the Avenger/AK-47 is a bit off.

The Avenger is a popular assault rifle, just like the AK, true - but unlike the AK, it's relatively new, fires relatively small rounds, and hits relatively mildly. It's more like an M4.

Where is it said that the Avenger is new? It is very likely that the current version was retrofitted for the thermal clips. The design is widespread enough to actually support the theory that it's not a new weapon at all, but a reliable and battle tested workhorse. Just like the AK.

If anything, I personally think the Mattock/Ak-47 is a far more apt comparison. Both guns are decades old, reliable, shoot big rounds, hit hard, and make a hell of a racket when firing. Pretty much the only thing they don't share is the full-auto setting, which, to be honest, is rarely an effective use of the AK anyway.

Nope. IMO, the Mattock is clearly the M14 or semi auto FN-FAL of Mass Effect, ie. real world "battle rifles". The heavier damage corresponds to the heavier 7,62mm x 51 round originally used in bolt lock rifles, whereas the lighter 7,62mm x 39 round used by AK47 is much less powerful, and more closely comparable to the NATO standard 5,56mm round used in M-16 etc.

[All-a-Mort]

JaegerBane wrote...

I think the Avenger/AK-47 is a bit off.

The Avenger is a popular assault rifle, just like the AK, true - but unlike the AK, it's relatively new, fires relatively small rounds, and hits relatively mildly. It's more like an M4.

If anything, I personally think the Mattock/Ak-47 is a far more apt comparison. Both guns are decades old, reliable, shoot big rounds, hit hard, and make a hell of a racket when firing. Pretty much the only thing they don't share is the full-auto setting, which, to be honest, is rarely an effective use of the AK anyway.

In terms of role, I'd assume the Revenant is very much a SAW, like the M249, while the Viper is very much a H&K G3. The Scimitar is pretty clearly inspired by the SPAS-12 and the Tempest is a clear analogue to the MAC-10. The Locust is a Vector equivalent, as mentioned.

If only there was a ME version of the G36 - i.e. an assault rifle that was actually good...

I was thinking the Tempest was of the spray and pray type of the MAC-10 much beloved of hoodlums , nice to read someone agree.

Viper = G3....well maybe an MSG90 though I doubt you'd fire that as quickly as the Viper. Maybe the G3SG1 instead, or one of those MK11 Mod 0 things or the EMR souped up M14?

I suppose the Mantis would have to be the equivalent of a sniper rifle shooting a .338 round (take ya pick, but I'm a Brit so I'll nominate the L115A3 as an example) as the Mantis packs more punch than the viper but less than the anti-materiel rifle and is bolt-action.

Anyone think of anything analogous to the Incisor? I could only think that maybe the weird 2 round burst of the AN-94 might be vaguely similar to how the Incisor is described when firing.

Personally I'm waiting for someone to try and match up the GPS and Arc Projector.

[godlike13]

Mantis, M40
Viper, Dragunov or M110 SASS
Widow, M-200 Intervention or Barrett M-107. More the Barrett M-107 though.
Incisor, ???. Sniper Scoped m16a1 or something??

Modifié par godlike13, 14 octobre 2010 - 07:18 .

[khevan]

The Avenger is definately equivalent to the AK-47, not that big on accuracy but reliable as hell and a solid workhorse weapon. This is especially true when you look at the codex listing for the Avenger.



The Mattock, in my opinion, is clearly equivalent to the M14. Like someone already said, it's a heavy rifle firing heavy bullets, and the M14 fired the NATO standard 7.62 x 51mm cartridge, a full sized round that did nice damage. Assault rifles of today either fire a short-cased version of larger rounds (AK-47 and the 7.62 x 39mm) or a small caliber round (M16/M4 and the 5.56 x 45mm). Both concepts worked to give acceptable accuracy at around the 300m mark, with low enough recoil and enough damage to do the job. Basically, they're trying to be the "jack of all trades" weapon, and some pull it off better than others. But that's straying a little off topic here.



Someone asked earlier if anyone had an idea for the Incisor. I'd personally call it analagous to the sniper-variants of the M16 platform assault rifles. Scoped, 3 round burst, etc. They're mostly used in semi-automatic mode, but there is the 3 round burst capability for the M16 family, so that's what I'd call it.

[JaegerBane]

Mox Ruuga wrote...
Where is it said that the Avenger is new? It is very likely that the current version was retrofitted for the thermal clips. The design is widespread enough to actually support the theory that it's not a new weapon at all, but a reliable and battle tested workhorse. Just like the AK.

I said relatively new. I.e. not a practical relic like the Mattock. A weapon doesn't need to be around for over half a century to be considered a 'battle tested workhorse'.

If anything, I personally think the Mattock/Ak-47 is a far more apt comparison. Both guns are decades old, reliable, shoot big rounds, hit hard, and make a hell of a racket when firing. Pretty much the only thing they don't share is the full-auto setting, which, to be honest, is rarely an effective use of the AK anyway.

Nope. IMO, the Mattock is clearly the M14 or semi auto FN-FAL of Mass Effect, ie. real world "battle rifles". The heavier damage corresponds to the heavier 7,62mm x 51 round originally used in bolt lock rifles, whereas the lighter 7,62mm x 39 round used by AK47 is much less powerful, and more closely comparable to the NATO standard 5,56mm round used in M-16 etc.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about, here - I'm not claiming that the AK47 fires larger rounds than a battle rifle or whatever - I'm simply pointing out that it fires larger rounds than the standard 5.56 /5.45 rounds. The 7.62x51 round is not something that you could expect to fire at the speed the Mattock can and still sustain any kind of accuracy whatsoever.

As for the rest, it flatly states in the codex the Mattock is an old, reliable gun being used by militia for decades - virtually a word-for-word description that could be applied to the AK - so saying 'nope' is essentially a meaningless response.

[Mox Ruuga]

Avenger - A workhorse assault rifle, reliable and battle tested, capable of automatic fire but inaccurate compared to other assault rifles. Used by wide variety of mercs and military forces.

Mattock - An older weapon. Semi automatic, but each round does heavier damage than is typical of more modern assault rifles. Fills a "gap" between true assault rifles and sniper rifles. I could easily see this weapon converted with a scope for use by designated marksmen of Alliance Marine squads.

It is pretty clear the Mattock fills a comparable role to that of a semi automatic "battle rifle", ie. a semi auto FN-FAL, M14, or even an M1 Garand of WW2 era, if you want to go way back for comparison, whereas the Avenger fills the role of a "economy" model assault rifle, which is synonymous with the AK47 in our modern world. The Vindicator would be a higher quality AR, M16 or perhaps a G36.

It really should be pretty clear... You can't simply map the weapons' traits to each other and expect to find identical matches. Closest equivalents is more meaningful.

[Drakist]

Hmm perhaps the reason I like the Mattock so much is the M1 Garand feel it has. Anyhow on a lighter note.



Claymore - My right hand

GPS - Left hand...I need to charge up first.



Butt - Light grenade....must I explain further?

[JaegerBane]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Avenger - A workhorse assault rifle, reliable and battle tested, capable of automatic fire but inaccurate compared to other assault rifles. Used by wide variety of mercs and military forces.

Mattock - An older weapon. Semi automatic, but each round does heavier damage than is typical of more modern assault rifles. Fills a "gap" between true assault rifles and sniper rifles. I could easily see this weapon converted with a scope for use by designated marksmen of Alliance Marine squads.

It is pretty clear the Mattock fills a comparable role to that of a semi automatic "battle rifle", ie. a semi auto FN-FAL, M14, or even an M1 Garand of WW2 era, if you want to go way back for comparison, whereas the Avenger fills the role of a "economy" model assault rifle, which is synonymous with the AK47 in our modern world. The Vindicator would be a higher quality AR, M16 or perhaps a G36.

It really should be pretty clear... You can't simply map the weapons' traits to each other and expect to find identical matches. Closest equivalents is more meaningful.

I can't? Why? Because you say so? I'm sorry Mox - this is a matter of opinion, it's not really an objective argument, so effectively dictating how the comparisons can and can't be made is pointless. I mean, you're using the full auto feature of the Avenger to equate it with the AK but then you equate the Vindi with the G36 despite the fact it doesn't share the same fully automatic setting... or the fact that it hits signiicantly harder per shot despite the 5,56 mm rounds of both the comparisons, which is something else you used to question the AK/Mattock comparison.

I recognise the Mattock is semi-auto, but as I already mentioned, I think there's more criteria to equate the Viper with the FAL and G3. It maintains many of the same features (long range, reasonable semi-auto firing rate, hits extremely hard) but, unlike the Mattock and like the G3/FAL, it can't really maintain a blistering fire rate with virtually no loss of accuracy. That's not to say that Mattock *isn't* like a battle rifle, but let's face it, the only real difference you've mentioned so far is the fact it doesn't have a full-auto setting and the Avenger does. It lacks a scope and it's round is significantly less powerful than your average sniper shot, but can sustain an extremely fast rate of fire.

As I say, these are very subjective comparisons. It's a little difficult to take seriously the claim that one comparison is more 'valid' than the other given the differences between modern day and ME firearms.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 14 octobre 2010 - 05:47 .

[cruc1al]

@ JaegerBane

Well put. In fact, I'd go with comparing weapons solely on the basis of how they look.

[Praetor Knight]

cruc1al wrote...

@ JaegerBane
Well put. In fact, I'd go with comparing weapons solely on the basis of how they look.

So it would seem that the Jackhammer  firing solid slugs would be a decent analogue for the mattock,

with the OICW would be closest to the Revenant were instead of firing 20mm grenades the OICW would fire 20mm solid slugs

I also like the incisor compared to an M-16 firing in 3-round bursts.

The Vindicator reminds me of the FAMAS assault rifle.

[cruc1al]

TBH I would say a real Mattock equivalent doesn't exist or at least hasn't been mentioned in this thread. If the best similarity you can find is that of a funny-shaped cloud compared to a picture in your head of what your grandma looks like, I think it's not even worth mentioning.



Neither is there an equivalent of Vindicator that I've seen. Which weapon fires only 3 round bursts, doesn't make a huge sound when fired, is extremely accurate, and does significantly more damage than your average full-auto rifle? And is also compact in size?



The Incisor is designed as a sniper rifle, so it shouldn't really be compared to an assault rifle. Mention one real-world sniper rifle that fires only 3-round bursts and is blue.

[Praetor Knight]

cruc1al wrote...

If the best similarity you can find is that of a funny-shaped cloud compared to a picture in your head of what your grandma looks like, I think it's not even worth mentioning.

If this is directed to me don't get personal and leave my grandma out of it, don't be such a lame. Just say bad choice.

WOW!

[godlike13]

cruc1al wrote...

TBH I would say a real Mattock equivalent doesn't exist or at least hasn't been mentioned in this thread. If the best similarity you can find is that of a funny-shaped cloud compared to a picture in your head of what your grandma looks like, I think it's not even worth mentioning.

Neither is there an equivalent of Vindicator that I've seen. Which weapon fires only 3 round bursts, doesn't make a huge sound when fired, is extremely accurate, and does significantly more damage than your average full-auto rifle? And is also compact in size?

The Incisor is designed as a sniper rifle, so it shouldn't really be compared to an assault rifle. Mention one real-world sniper rifle that fires only 3-round bursts and is blue.

I'd say the M-14 for the Mattock and M16A1 for the Vindicator are pretty decent equivalents, performance wise at least.

Modifié par godlike13, 15 octobre 2010 - 07:26 .

[khevan]

cruc1al wrote...

TBH I would say a real Mattock equivalent doesn't exist or at least hasn't been mentioned in this thread. If the best similarity you can find is that of a funny-shaped cloud compared to a picture in your head of what your grandma looks like, I think it's not even worth mentioning.

If we're talking how the weapons look, then no, there's no real equivalent to the Mattock in real life.  In how the weapon performs however, it's quite similar to semi-automatic battle rifles in the middle part of the 20th century, i.e. the M1 Garand or the M14.  

cruc1al wrote...

The Incisor is designed as a sniper rifle, so it shouldn't really be compared to an assault rifle. Mention one real-world sniper rifle that fires only 3-round bursts and is blue.

There are assault rifles, sniper rifles, and Designated Marksman Rifles.  Typically, assault rifles were intended to be accurate to around the 300m mark, and snipers out to around 1000m (although longer shots have been taken).  The gap between those two ranges is where the DMR sits.  The M16 family is accurate to a point target out to 550 meters, which sits right in the area that the DMR is intended for.  With standard iron sights, it's practically impossible to hit a human sized target much beyond 300 meters, but if you add a multi-power scope, the M16 suddenly can hit targets at 400m, 500m, etc, with no issues.  Thus, it works as a "sniper" weapon, and it has a 3 round burst setting.

Sounds like an Incisor to me. 

[Atmosfear3]

Based strictly on how weapons look (not performance):

Mattock looks like the FAMAS
Revenant is similar to the M60
Incisor looks like an M14
Locust looks like the KRISS/Vector
Tempest looks like an MP5K
Widow looks like the Barret M82

Thats about all I have so far!

Modifié par Atmosfear3, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:29 .

[termokanden]

fongiel24 wrote...

That's one ugly gun.

[jolly_rog]

Avenger: AK47 or AK74
Vindicator: M16A2/A4
Tempest: Uzi
Locust: H&K MP7
Widow: Any bolt action Anti-Material Rifle

Mind you, I make these comparisons in relation to weapon performance, not looks.

Modifié par jolly_rog, 17 octobre 2010 - 08:24 .

[JaegerBane]

jolly_rog wrote...
Tempest/Locust: Uzi

Mind you, I make these comparisons in relation to weapon performance, not looks.

Huh?

[azerSheppard]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Of course I have. I had to be in military for 2 years (was compulsory for all men in my country at that time). I trained with a lot of weapons and AK47 is one of them. It may not be the most accurate or deadliest in the World, but it sure is a hell of a weapon. I think it is the most used AR ever.

Most used does not mean "the greatest". AK is rugged, powerful enough, and adequately accurate (when not fired from the hip Jihadi style). It is the most used because it is cheap and easy to use. Lots of irregulars and poorer countries have it as their main rifle. Some countries, Finland and Israel included, have created higher quality "copies" that are an improvement over the standard AK.

My point was that Avenger is the worst AR in the game, by far. AK47 (and its variants) is one of the best/greatest (obviously not the most effective today, considering it was created more than 60 years ago, but in all-time sense) AR ever made and it does not fire spitballs.

Worst is a relative term, considering there are just two available in the below Hardcore vanilla game... The Avenger is clearly not the "worst" AR in the ME universe, if you go by fluff text. It's just the worst AR available to Shep's spec ops group. In fact, the weapons' description kinda reads like a "Space AK" would:

"The reliability and effectiveness of the Avenger Assault Rifle in almost any battle condition makes it the weapon of choice for mercenaries and soldiers alike. The Avenger Assault Rifle (and its variants) is a workhorse weapon with low recoil and high accuracy. Its collapsible frame is light, yet substantial, and flexible ammunition load-out allows users to adapt firepower to any opponent-including synthetics."

Ok, well, disregard the "accurate"...  But it's clearly intended as the AK of the Terminus: widely used workhorse weapon, for both mercs and military. What other assault rifle would you pick over the AK for that description?

You seem stuck on the lower damage (spit balls lol)? Very well, consider this the 5,45mm AK then. Supposedly that cartridge wasn't very satisfactory and left soldiers wishing to have the old 7,62 (short) back.

Ak 47 uses bigger rounds than m16, obviously is going to be less accurate then it. neway according to the codex, avenger is pretty much the spacer version of Ak, used by colonists and slavers alike 


Also the widow fits more into the anti-tank rifles from WWII, which where too heavy for humans, like the english Boys anti-tank, (effective for it's time) it was carried by footsoldiers, but mainly used by mounting on a vehicle or ground.

guess the finnisch forum member have more history with that:D

Modifié par azerSheppard, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:44 .