45 réponses à ce sujet

[SpraynardTaargus]

I am getting a serious flashback, here. Remember those old Sierra adventure games (Space/Police/King's Quest) where it was possible (read: probable) to forget to do some arbitrary action, and then you'd get to a point in the game where you couldn't go back, and hence have to start over again or hope for an old save file?

That was a lot like what's happened to me twice now in Awakening, except at least I can beat the game now. Sure, I'm constantly reminded of the fact that I've essentially FAILED by letting Amaranthine die. Sure, this is a role-playing game that may have significant impacts on future sequels, if Mass Effect is any indication. Sure, all of this is true...but at least I can finish the game. <_<

I am straight pissed. This is my second attempt at trying to save both Amaranthine and the Vigil from destruction. I failed the first time because I foolishly sent soldiers out to protect farmland instead of the keep. A problem that you should be able to rectify before it's too late, but I took it in stride.

Now, because Bioware apparently don't mind punishing you for making use of their own built-in system of choice regarding the order in which you complete the game, I have to let Amaranthine burn AGAIN because I, OH-SO-STUPIDLY, picked Sigrund to recruit last. As I cannot put her through the joining, I cannot do her companion quest. As I cannot do her companion quest, I cannot save both areas.

If I didn't love Dragon Age with all my heart, I would probably curse out the developers at this point.

[Quill74Pen]

Hmm. I didn't even know it was possible to save *both* Amaranthine and the Keep. I've always had to choose one or the other ... and I usually opt to save Amaranthine since, according to the post-game scroll, the Keep is rebuilt within five years of its destruction.

Quill74Pen

[Zjarcal]

Ahhhh, I think you're confused about what you have to do to save both the Keep and Amaranthine. To save them both you have to apply all the upgrades to the Keep (upgrade the walls, seal the underground tunnel that connects to the Deep Roads, and provide Wade and Herren with the three metals needed to craft armor and weapons for the soliders).

Where you send troops to defend (the farms, the city, spread them out) has no impact on the endgame (aside from maybe one epilogue slide).

If all that has been done, you can choose to save Amaranthine and the Keep will stand despite the Darkspawn onslaught. It will suffer losses, but it will stand (and it will be brought back to its former glory eventually).

P.S.: Sigrun's personal quest has nothing to do with the endgame.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 12 octobre 2010 - 06:42 .

[Quill74Pen]

Zjarcal wrote...

Ahhhh, I think you're confused about what you have to do to save both the Keep and Amaranthine. To save them both you have to apply all the upgrades to the Keep (upgrade the walls, seal the underground tunnel that connects to the Deep Roads, and provide Wade and Herren with the three metals needed to craft armor and weapons for the soliders).

Where you send troops to defend (the farms, the city, spread them out) has no impact on the endgame (aside from maybe one epilogue slide).

If all that has been done, you can choose to save Amaranthine and the Keep will stand despite the Darkspawn onslaught. It will suffer losses, but it will stand (and it will be brought back to its former glory eventually).

P.S.: Sigrun's personal quest has nothing to do with the endgame.

That's the ending I usually get — still, the post-game scroll says the Keep does fall, but before it does, it holds out for more than a week and, in the process, breaks the darkspawn horde upon its walls. Apparently this is different from the end-game scroll where the Keep is totally destroyed? Because, if so, I've never seen that particular scroll, as I always upgrade the Keep to the maximum best possible.

Quill74Pen

[Big I]

The only way to save Amaranthine is not to burn the city and defend it.

To save the Vigil you either abandon the city and relieve it OR upgrade it completely.

The upgrades are:
Granite and gold for the walls
Iron, Steel, and Silverite for Wade
Lyrium dust for explosives
Seal the entrance to the Deep Roads.

Even if fully upgraded, Justice and Velana will die if left to defend the Vigil, Nathaniel will leave the order after the battle, and it's left ambiguous what happens to Sigrun (she might have died).

How you deploy your troops shouldn't matter (I always protect the farmlands, and I've never lost the Vigil).

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 12 octobre 2010 - 06:52 .

[Zjarcal]

Quill74Pen wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Ahhhh, I think you're confused about what you have to do to save both the Keep and Amaranthine. To save them both you have to apply all the upgrades to the Keep (upgrade the walls, seal the underground tunnel that connects to the Deep Roads, and provide Wade and Herren with the three metals needed to craft armor and weapons for the soliders).

Where you send troops to defend (the farms, the city, spread them out) has no impact on the endgame (aside from maybe one epilogue slide).

If all that has been done, you can choose to save Amaranthine and the Keep will stand despite the Darkspawn onslaught. It will suffer losses, but it will stand (and it will be brought back to its former glory eventually).

P.S.: Sigrun's personal quest has nothing to do with the endgame.

That's the ending I usually get — still, the post-game scroll says the Keep does fall, but before it does, it holds out for more than a week and, in the process, breaks the darkspawn horde upon its walls. Apparently this is different from the end-game scroll where the Keep is totally destroyed? Because, if so, I've never seen that particular scroll, as I always upgrade the Keep to the maximum best possible.

Quill74Pen

Yeah, the Keep does fall in a way. The Darkspawn break in and there are some huge losses. But it doesn't fall completely and the battle is won. Anders, Sigrun, Nathaniel, and Oghren will survive if left to defend the Keep and all the upgrades were applied. Justice will die in either scenario and Velanna will disappear.

[SpraynardTaargus]

Oh, that's right. The first time I attempted this I stuck around in Amaranthine, but it said afterward that so-and-so had died, and this was unacceptable to me.



Hmm...so I guess it's not as bad as I thought. I'm trying to get the "good" ending, and I thought this had thrown a wrench into my big plans. Thanks guys.

[CalJones]

Yeah, you can't really save both.

If you burn Amaranthine and return to Vigil you will save your companions. However, the epilogue is pretty harsh in so far as the wardens are vilified for this and rumours are started about the Warden (depending on his/her background).

If you do all the upgrades and companion quests, you may lose some of the companions you leave guarding Vigil but then epilogue is more favourable - Amaranthine is rebuilt in a year and Vigil in five, and returns to its former glory (in fact, if you've done the trade quests it thrives).

I've always had Sigrun die if I leave her behind (and I always do her quest). Her epilogue says something about the fact, this time she did not run from the battle. I took that to mean she went out fighting. Justice fights until the victory horn is sounded, only to be beheaded by a fleeing darkspawn. To me, that's acceptable as his body is already dead and it allows Kristoff's wife some closure, while Justice got to avenge his death. Velanna is seen to be crushed by a wall but no body is ever found (rather reminds me of Elanee in NWN2, actually). Oghren, Anders and Nathaniel will live (although I've always taken Nate with me so I've not seen the ending slide where he leaves the wardens).

[Sabariel]

How friendly you are with your companions effects their endings as well. If you're not friendly enough with Nate he'll leave, Sigrun will leave as well if you take her with you, but her affection level isn't high enough, etc.

[Reika]

The approval can also determine for some characters if they live or die when left at the keep iirc.

[errant_knight]

SpraynardTaargus wrote...

Oh, that's right. The first time I attempted this I stuck around in Amaranthine, but it said afterward that so-and-so had died, and this was unacceptable to me.

Hmm...so I guess it's not as bad as I thought. I'm trying to get the "good" ending, and I thought this had thrown a wrench into my big plans. Thanks guys.

There is no 'good' ending for Awakening, something that really stuck in my craw. I don't play video games to achieve pyrrhic victories.

[Zjarcal]

@errant:

Couldn't the same be said about Origins? In Origins the Blight is defeated but not without suffering heavy losses and lots of destruction.

In WH, the map says that Denerim is just recovering from the effects of the Blight, something similar to the Keep recovering from the attack in Awakening (when fully upgraded) within five years.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:12 .

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant:

Couldn't the same be said about Origins? In Origins the Blight is defeated but not without suffering heavy losses and lots of destruction.

In WH, the map says that Denerim is just recovering from the effects of the Blight, something similar to the Keep recovering from the attack in Awakening (when fully upgraded) within five years.

Origins feels like a win, over all, whereas, Awakening just doesn't, at least to me.

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant:

Couldn't the same be said about Origins? In Origins the Blight is defeated but not without suffering heavy losses and lots of destruction.

In WH, the map says that Denerim is just recovering from the effects of the Blight, something similar to the Keep recovering from the attack in Awakening (when fully upgraded) within five years.

Origins feels like a win, over all, whereas, Awakening just doesn't, at least to me.

Well, I will give you that, at least in the sense that the abrupt ending doesn't allow you to bask in your victory. I think that's a major problem for Awakening. If we had been able to return to the Keep after saving Amaranthine (where you do see everyone cheering for you) and defeating the Mother, perhaps it would've felt less grim.

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant:

Couldn't the same be said about Origins? In Origins the Blight is defeated but not without suffering heavy losses and lots of destruction.

In WH, the map says that Denerim is just recovering from the effects of the Blight, something similar to the Keep recovering from the attack in Awakening (when fully upgraded) within five years.

Origins feels like a win, over all, whereas, Awakening just doesn't, at least to me. Maybe it's because the equivalent in Origins would be not being allowed to join the battle in Denerim, but instead, suddenly finding yourself in the Deep Roads against your will. (Not trying to save the city wasn't an option for me)

Heh, quote weirdness from me editing while being quoted....

Modifié par errant_knight, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Well, I will give you that, at least in the sense that the abrupt ending doesn't allow you to bask in your victory. I think that's a major problem for Awakening. If we had been able to return to the Keep after saving Amaranthine (where you do see everyone cheering for you) and defeating the Mother, perhaps it would've felt less grim.

I agree that the ending was abrupt.

But if they allowed us to go back to the Vigil after the victory, we would have seen Varel dead, the Keep barely standing, and also the bodies of companions who didn't make it. Which of course will make the game "feel less like a win" for some.

Would have been epic for me though. Victory without sacrifice is worthless.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:21 .

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant:

Couldn't the same be said about Origins? In Origins the Blight is defeated but not without suffering heavy losses and lots of destruction.

In WH, the map says that Denerim is just recovering from the effects of the Blight, something similar to the Keep recovering from the attack in Awakening (when fully upgraded) within five years.

Origins feels like a win, over all, whereas, Awakening just doesn't, at least to me.

Well, I will give you that, at least in the sense that the abrupt ending doesn't allow you to bask in your victory. I think that's a major problem for Awakening. If we had been able to return to the Keep after saving Amaranthine (where you do see everyone cheering for you) and defeating the Mother, perhaps it would've felt less grim.

True. At least part of the probelm was the abrupt ending--which we were told we would see a reason for, but was never explained.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Well, I will give you that, at least in the sense that the abrupt ending doesn't allow you to bask in your victory. I think that's a major problem for Awakening. If we had been able to return to the Keep after saving Amaranthine (where you do see everyone cheering for you) and defeating the Mother, perhaps it would've felt less grim.

I agree that the ending was abrupt.

But if they allowed us to go back to the Vigil after the victory, we would have seen Varel dead, the Keep barely standing, and also the body of companions who didn't make it. Which of course will make the game "feel less like a win" for some.

Would have been epic for me though. Victory without sacrifice is worthless.

Well yeah, that would've been worse! But if the keep was upgraded and the right companions were left to defend it, no companions would've died and you could've caught up with them. You see Varel die if you stay at the Keep, so that's no big difference.

But I agree with your last statement. I believe Morrigan says that exact same thing after Redcliffe, doesn't she?

[errant_knight]

Does any one know what the circumstances are that allow for Varel's survival?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Well yeah, that would've been worse! But if the keep was upgraded and the right companions were left to defend it, no companions would've died and you could've caught up with them. You see Varel die if you stay at the Keep, so that's no big difference.

But I agree with your last statement. I believe Morrigan says that exact same thing after Redcliffe, doesn't she?

Yea true, I wish we could have had a funeral for Varel.

And yes she does

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...

Does any one know what the circumstances are that allow for Varel's survival?

I've heard of this but I have never been able to get it in my games. The wiki says that if he survives he leads the "Silver Order", although it does state that it "needs confirmation".

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Does any one know what the circumstances are that allow for Varel's survival?

I've heard of this but I have never been able to get it in my games. The wiki says that if he survives he leads the "Silver Order", although it does state that it "needs confirmation".

Ah, well. I need him alive in my story anyway. *handwaves*

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Does any one know what the circumstances are that allow for Varel's survival?

I've heard of this but I have never been able to get it in my games. The wiki says that if he survives he leads the "Silver Order", although it does state that it "needs confirmation".

Ah, well. I need him alive in my story anyway. *handwaves*

If you save Amaranthine you never get an epilogue slide stating that he died, so I think it's perfectly valid to assume he survives if you want.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:30 .

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Does any one know what the circumstances are that allow for Varel's survival?

I've heard of this but I have never been able to get it in my games. The wiki says that if he survives he leads the "Silver Order", although it does state that it "needs confirmation".

Ah, well. I need him alive in my story anyway. *handwaves*

If you save Amaranthine you never get an epilogue slide stating that he died, so I think it's perfectly valid to assume he survives if you want.

Oh, well, that's good to know for future reference! Sadly, in this story, Amaranthine burned to the ground, so I guess I'm still forced to hand wave, but hey, it's a bit AU, so it's still okay.