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[FuturePasTimeCE]

kregano wrote...

Perhaps this thread would be better served by posting some more ideas for better HUDs in ME3 instead of yet another ME1 vs ME2 argument.

Created by Lord_Tirian


Created by Blue Vertex

why didn't they use this for mass effect 2? the combat hud didn't make much sense to me, didn't know who was what, when and where... and what power recharged in what color how where who... like FUUUUUUUUUUU

[morrie23]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
can you come up with a HUDless screen design?


id be more interested in seeing ideas that lead to that, instead of different collors or positions for health bars.

HUD-less? Like Dead Space? As in the ammo counter sprouting out of the gun and Sheps health coming out the back of his suit?

Looks like BioWare was considering this at one point, as shown in this screenshot from way back when:


They obviously dumped it, I'm glad they did to be honest. Why would Shep have his health on a holographic display on his back? It's a bit silly and limits what you can do with the HUD.

[Pocketgb]

Wow, geez, never noticed that before...

[Epic777]

morrie23 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
can you come up with a HUDless screen design?


id be more interested in seeing ideas that lead to that, instead of different collors or positions for health bars.

HUD-less? Like Dead Space? As in the ammo counter sprouting out of the gun and Sheps health coming out the back of his suit?

Looks like BioWare was considering this at one point, as shown in this screenshot from way back when:


They obviously dumped it, I'm glad they did to be honest. Why would Shep have his health on a holographic display on his back? It's a bit silly and limits what you can do with the HUD.

Thats an official screenshot, where the developers messed around with the command console, like so:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Modifié par Epic777, 15 octobre 2010 - 01:31 .

[kregano]

Epic777 wrote...

morrie23 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
can you come up with a HUDless screen design?


id be more interested in seeing ideas that lead to that, instead of different collors or positions for health bars.

HUD-less? Like Dead Space? As in the ammo counter sprouting out of the gun and Sheps health coming out the back of his suit?

Looks like BioWare was considering this at one point, as shown in this screenshot from way back when:


They obviously dumped it, I'm glad they did to be honest. Why would Shep have his health on a holographic display on his back? It's a bit silly and limits what you can do with the HUD.

Hate to burst your bubble but that is no evidence of a HUD-less interface, thats an official screenshot, where the developers messed around with the command console, like so:

What? You didn't notice the shot counter on the AR and the little block of color on Shepard's collar? Stuff that AFAIK, you can't get with coalesced.ini?

[Destroy Raiden_]

I liked 1's hud and saw nothing wrong with it 2's seems very lacking and not really helpful

[The Spamming Troll]

morrie23 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
can you come up with a HUDless screen design?


id be more interested in seeing ideas that lead to that, instead of different collors or positions for health bars.

HUD-less? Like Dead Space? As in the ammo counter sprouting out of the gun and Sheps health coming out the back of his suit?

Looks like BioWare was considering this at one point, as shown in this screenshot from way back when:


They obviously dumped it, I'm glad they did to be honest. Why would Shep have his health on a holographic display on his back? It's a bit silly and limits what you can do with the HUD.

this is great!

your forgetting health is shown by huge red viens across the screen. the tricky part is showing the first layer of your heallth bar like barrier, shields or armor. i wouldnt mind seeing a bar much like dead space, or something on shepards wrist. barrier could be left as is, just deplete when its down. armor could just be an addition to health. i was thinking for the soldier making armor be a layer that follows health. itd be intense playing a hardcore soldier with red viens on the entire screen, and still going balls out with armor on.

on the other hand if you think the HUD is an immersion breaker i just use my imagination. you could even say shepards upgrades include a inner occular device that shows his very own hud that youd see on screen. hell playing an adept in ME1 with all those weapons on my back i used to pretend the shotgun on my back served more as a storage pack like a fanny pack. id load up the geth pulse rifle too and pretend itd be my O2 supply. oooohhhhhh the memories!

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 15 octobre 2010 - 03:08 .

[Gleym]

Here's an idea: Put something on Shepard's forearm, like a piece of armor. Or a visor over one or both eyes. Just, basically something that would look like an accessory that Shepard would use to keep track of shields, vitals, that sort of thing, right? Make it have a particular look to it. Then take the same format of that appearance, the HUD that would show up on the monitoring equipment, and then place it in the lower corner as the gameplay HUD. Basically giving the allusion that you are looking at what Shepard would be able to see when viewing his vitals or shields.

[Onyx Jaguar]

The Dead Space explanation for the Hud display on the back was to know the status of your team. This seems to be a good enough explanation for Mass Effect to adopt.

[kalle90]

morrie23 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
can you come up with a HUDless screen design?


id be more interested in seeing ideas that lead to that, instead of different collors or positions for health bars.

HUD-less? Like Dead Space? As in the ammo counter sprouting out of the gun and Sheps health coming out the back of his suit?

Looks like BioWare was considering this at one point, as shown in this screenshot from way back when:

They obviously dumped it, I'm glad they did to be honest. Why would Shep have his health on a holographic display on his back? It's a bit silly and limits what you can do with the HUD.

Aw man, would that be unplayable on non-HD tv.

[Raizo]

You can sign me up for this as well. ME2's HUD is a disaster, I can never tell if my Squadmates are alive or not.

And don't even get me started on the Hammerhead.

[morrie23]

kalle90 wrote...
Aw man, would that be unplayable on non-HD tv.

Indeed it would, it would need to be significantly bigger than in that shot, would be diffcult seeing that Shep could have weapons all over his back. I'd like to see them intergrate the squad health system as well, Shep would look like a Christmas tree. Plus a HUD-less ME3 would be a such a break from ME1 and ME2, if they had it in the first two games it would be much less jarring.

[Felfenix]

ME2 is already unplayable on a non-HDTV. lol

[Foolsfolly]

Raizo wrote...

You can sign me up for this as well. ME2's HUD is a disaster, I can never tell if my Squadmates are alive or not.
And don't even get me started on the Hammerhead.

...do...do you have eyes?

[Felfenix]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Raizo wrote...

You can sign me up for this as well. ME2's HUD is a disaster, I can never tell if my Squadmates are alive or not.
And don't even get me started on the Hammerhead.

...do...do you have eyes?

People who think ME2's HUD is rocket science need a helmet when they go outside.

[AntiChri5]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Keep the information relevant to Shepard as is, but give each of your squadmates a smaller version in an arc in the bottom corners (one side each) curved like the first pic kregano posted

Why would you want crucial informations in places where you can barely see them?

I can see it just fine.



@Everybody else: What information did ME 1's hud provide that ME 2's did not?

[Mister Mida]

AntiChri5 wrote...
@Everybody else: What information did ME 1's hud provide that ME 2's did not?

Medi-gel and more specific squad status.

[kalle90]

I don't think ME2 is unplayable on "standard tv". I can adjust to the mini-text and I also hear what people say. But for ammo there wouldn't be any other indicator so it's worse

AntiChri5 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
Keep the information relevant to Shepard as is, but give each of your squadmates a smaller version in an arc in the bottom corners (one side each) curved like the first pic kregano posted

Why would you want crucial informations in places where you can barely see them?

@Everybody else: What information did ME 1's hud provide that ME 2's did not?

I could turn this around and ask what did ME2 have ME1 didn't.

Like said componentwise: medigel, squad stances, radar/health&shield all the time. Other than that I just liked the blue color making the red things more visible and having everything visible all the time, mostly in the same corner.

It just comes down to preference and I can't see Bioware pleasing all of us with just 1 HUD. Those listed by kregano look great but I can still imagine people saying "I don't want all that, presented like that"

Modifié par kalle90, 15 octobre 2010 - 12:44 .

[Foolsfolly]

Mister Mida wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
@Everybody else: What information did ME 1's hud provide that ME 2's did not?

Medi-gel and more specific squad status.

Medi-gel's in the radial menu and the pause screen. Since you regen health really quickly it's not needed to quickly tap it like you had to in the last game. It's now used primarily for bringing back squadmates (and healing yourself in a pinch). So it's information isn't as needed.

In fact, I rarely even use medi-gel because if you're topped off you get extra credits...and apparently, I'm cheap. The fact that you can go the whole game without using medi-gel shows how less important it is now and giving screen space to something to track it would be near useless.

I couldn't go a story mission without using medi-gel (hell, if I'm not a soldier I can't go one rachni fight without it).

Your second point is too vague and inaccurate.

In ME1 we saw their shield and health....we still do. If its not on screen then they're fully healed. If it's whiteish in color they have shields it turns redder and redder until they die. Same information in less the space. New information includes cooldowns at a glance to the bottom of the screen which was not present in ME1.

So we have a more specific squad status at a glance.

Who's next.

[Mister Mida]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
@Everybody else: What information did ME 1's hud provide that ME 2's did not?

Medi-gel and more specific squad status.

Your second point is too vague and inaccurate.

In ME1 we saw their shield and health....we still do. If its not on screen then they're fully healed. If it's whiteish in color they have shields it turns redder and redder until they die. Same information in less the space. New information includes cooldowns at a glance to the bottom of the screen which was not present in ME1.

So we have a more specific squad status at a glance.

Who's next.

If my point is vague how can you say it's inaccurate?

If told my team in ME (1) to bunker up during a shoot out, there would be a shield icon by their name. If I gave them another command there would be another icon there. Sure, it's nit-picking but AntiChri5 asked the question. 

Modifié par Mister Mida, 15 octobre 2010 - 12:51 .

[Foolsfolly]

kalle90 wrote...

I don't think ME2 is unplayable on "standard tv". I can adjust to the mini-text and I also hear what people say. But for ammo there wouldn't be any other indicator so it's worse

AntiChri5 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
Keep the information relevant to Shepard as is, but give each of your squadmates a smaller version in an arc in the bottom corners (one side each) curved like the first pic kregano posted

Why would you want crucial informations in places where you can barely see them?

@Everybody else: What information did ME 1's hud provide that ME 2's did not?

I could turn this around and ask what did ME2 have ME1 didn't.

Like said componentwise: medigel, squad stances, radar/health&shield all the time. Other than that I just liked the blue color making the red things more visible and having everything visible all the time, mostly in the same corner.

It just comes down to preference and I can't see Bioware pleasing all of us with just 1 HUD. Those listed by kregano look great but I can still imagine people saying "I don't want all that, presented like that"

What did ME2 have that ME1 didn't?

Cooldowns. Your cooldown meter is by the crosshair your squad's is under their portraits.

Medi-gel: See my previous post.

Squad stances: useless. You couldn't individually order your squad and 99% of the time ordering them anywhere was unneeded. In the cases where it was needed you were able to remember where you put them...by looking at them.

Radar- The only thing the ME2 HUD is missing. It's still in the game just useless since it's in the radial menu.

Health and shields are totally in the HUD. When you need them...aka when you're under fire. When you're not you have this nice clean presentable screen.

[morrie23]

AntiChri5 wrote...
@Everybody else: What information did ME 1's hud provide that ME 2's did not?

Consistency (ME1 had very similar bars for Shep, squadmates, and enemies, ME2 has different shapes and colours for each).

More detailed squadmate information (although you may think it's unnecessary, I think it is in a squad-based RPG/shooter).

Radar (You need to pause in ME2 to see it, meaning additional pausing in combat, a toggle to turn it on/off would please most).

Sense of progression (again not everyone will agree, I like to see my characters stats improving due to leveling or better equipment, in ME2 you need to take it on faith that the armour etc. your wearing is actually improving your shields).

Also, better presentation of the effects of overshields (barrier in ME1. Tech armour, barrier, geth shield boost, fortification in ME2)

Modifié par morrie23, 15 octobre 2010 - 12:54 .

[Foolsfolly]

Mister Mida wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
@Everybody else: What information did ME 1's hud provide that ME 2's did not?

Medi-gel and more specific squad status.

Your second point is too vague and inaccurate.

In ME1 we saw their shield and health....we still do. If its not on screen then they're fully healed. If it's whiteish in color they have shields it turns redder and redder until they die. Same information in less the space. New information includes cooldowns at a glance to the bottom of the screen which was not present in ME1.

So we have a more specific squad status at a glance.

Who's next.

If my point is vague how can you say it's inaccurate?

If told my team in ME (1) to bunker up during a shoot out, there would be a shield icon by their name. If I gave them another command there would be another icon there. Sure, it's nit-picking but AntiChri5 asked the question. 

It's vague because you listed no examples or even tried to clarify your point. It's inaccurate because ME1's HUD did not have "more specific squad status." They were alive, dead, shielded, or unshielded all of which you can tell at a glance in ME2 just as well as you could in ME1. Only with the added bonus of knowing when their cooldowns are over whereas in ME1 you just kept opening the radial menu to see how much longer you'd have to wait to use Sabotage.

How many times in a battle do you forget what you told your squad? Why use up screen space for something no one uses? Battles in both games tend to be small affairs lasting only a minute or two. So while it's not on the ME2 HUD it's not needed. Just like how you don't need to see a full health bar to know you're fully healed.

[Felfenix]

How hard is it to keep track of your own squad orders? Are you just rolling your face across the keyboard on casual and hoping for the best?

[Foolsfolly]

morrie23 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
@Everybody else: What information did ME 1's hud provide that ME 2's did not?

Consistency (ME1 had very similar bars for Shep, squadmates, and enemies, ME2 has different shapes and colours for each).

More detailed squadmate information (although you may think it's unnecessary, I think it is in a squad-based RPG/shooter).

Radar (You need to pause in ME2 to see it, meaning additional pausing in combat, a toggle to turn it on/off would please most).

Sense of progression (again not everyone will agree, I like to see my characters stats improving due to leveling or better equipment, in ME2 you need to take it on faith that the armour etc. your wearing is actually improving your shields).

-Consistency. The only time the shield icons for squad (and Shepard) are different are when it's armor, shield, or barrier. The color coding system in ME2 is simple (Blue= Shield; Yellow= Armor; Purple= Barrier; Red= Health). So they're actually staying consistent with the rest of the game.

-More detailed squadmate information. All needed information is clearly available. If you really forgot that you put Grunt into cover in front of you as you cast/snipe then I'm sure you can just notice he's in cover and move him as the battle changes. Barring that simple LOS will tell you if a squad mate is out of cover or needs to be moved else where.

-Radar. On this page and earlier in this thread I said this was the only thing missing from the game. It gave tactical data at a glance that was useful. It being in a menu or absent completely is a loss.

-Sense of progression. Not even a point. The stat page and the armor load out screen tell you exactly what your shields are. Look at it. It has health and shields in exact numbers. Playing a Sentinel right now that when using Tech Armor has a nearly 750 shield strength. I know this because I looked at it the last time I played.

-Also, better presentation of the effects of overshields (barrier in
ME1. Tech armour, barrier, geth shield boost, fortification in ME2)

I don't know what you're talking about. In ME1 the only thing that changed was if you had Barrier on then you had the Barrier/Biotic particle effect on your character. In ME2 all the powers you listed have their own unique look.