563 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKillerAngel]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Keep in mind that a bayonet attachment wouldn't only be useful to the Infiltrator - Vanguards would love it in combination with a well timed Charge methinks.

As a weapon attachment (hopefully) it would then be a choice of do you want extra rounds; a grenade launcher (assault/battle rifle); bayonet etc on your weapon.

This reminds me a lot of CoD...

Weapon attachments come from real life, not just Call of Duty.

I think the whole issue of hard ceramic armor pretty much defeats a standard knife from being used. Maybe a superheated plasma "blade" could work to defeat armor.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Keep in mind that a bayonet attachment wouldn't only be useful to the Infiltrator - Vanguards would love it in combination with a well timed Charge methinks.

As a weapon attachment (hopefully) it would then be a choice of do you want extra rounds; a grenade launcher (assault/battle rifle); bayonet etc on your weapon.

This reminds me a lot of CoD...

Weapon attachments come from real life, not just Call of Duty.

I think the whole issue of hard ceramic armor pretty much defeats a standard knife from being used. Maybe a superheated plasma "blade" could work to defeat armor.

I like how you assume I didn't know that, thanks.

Are there any plasma weapons that aren't made by the Geth, let alone a a knife? There are arc welders, but those aren't exactly blade-like.

Modifié par MTN Dew Fanatic, 29 novembre 2010 - 05:39 .

[adam_grif]

Regular knife is fine, with kill animations as previously suggested. "Biotic knife" is a better idea than a plasma knife (too much of a lightsaber rip-off), but still kind of hokey and wouldn't make much sense given Mass Effect physics (i.e. if it rends armor apart it would rend your hand apart as you wielded it too).

[Captain_Obvious_au]

But it would work as a weapon attachment, because you personally wouldn't be handling it.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

But it would work as a weapon attachment, because you personally wouldn't be handling it.

If you're talking about the "plasma knife"/"biotic knife", not really. It would then damage your weapons instead of your armour.

Modifié par MTN Dew Fanatic, 29 novembre 2010 - 06:31 .

[TheKillerAngel]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Keep in mind that a bayonet attachment wouldn't only be useful to the Infiltrator - Vanguards would love it in combination with a well timed Charge methinks.

As a weapon attachment (hopefully) it would then be a choice of do you want extra rounds; a grenade launcher (assault/battle rifle); bayonet etc on your weapon.

This reminds me a lot of CoD...

Weapon attachments come from real life, not just Call of Duty.

I think the whole issue of hard ceramic armor pretty much defeats a standard knife from being used. Maybe a superheated plasma "blade" could work to defeat armor.

I like how you assume I didn't know that, thanks.

Are there any plasma weapons that aren't made by the Geth, let alone a a knife? There are arc welders, but those aren't exactly blade-like.

I was being facetious.

[adam_grif]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

But it would work as a weapon attachment, because you personally wouldn't be handling it.

If you're talking about the "plasma knife"/"biotic knife", not really. It would then damage your weapons instead of your armour.

Indeed. If it was mounted on the edge of a blade it would do just as much damage to the rest of the blade as it would to the thing you're cutting into.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Well ignoring the in-universe explanation for the moment - should a retractable bayonet be able to be attached to any weapon? I'm thinking it should, even though in the modern world it's only on rifles.



I've also added the idea to my ME3 suggestions blog (see my sig) and it fits in nicely I think.

[Ahriman]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

should a retractable bayonet be able to be attached to any weapon?

Even to pistols, even to sniper rifles? Nah, it will be strange.
About other weapon: I dont want another retcon. Usually soldiers don't use blades, so they shouldn't in future.
I'm talking about Shepard's extra skill and extra equipment.

[Sidewinder_617]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Well ignoring the in-universe explanation for the moment - should a retractable bayonet be able to be attached to any weapon? I'm thinking it should, even though in the modern world it's only on rifles.

I've also added the idea to my ME3 suggestions blog (see my sig) and it fits in nicely I think.

Starcraft 2 had one such thing in a cutscene (awesome stuff), and naturally it could fit,
but i still think different classes (if not all) could have different means based on specialization
(Soldier would use a combat knife since he's trained to use it,
Biotic classes could imbue their strikes with biotic effects,
and Techs could make thire Melee have immolation or freezing effects.)

True, this isn't Dragon Age and i'm not trying to make ME into one,
but the methods are there. they can provied the basis.

[mattylee10]

Sidewinder_617 wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Well ignoring the in-universe explanation for the moment - should a retractable bayonet be able to be attached to any weapon? I'm thinking it should, even though in the modern world it's only on rifles.

I've also added the idea to my ME3 suggestions blog (see my sig) and it fits in nicely I think.

Starcraft 2 had one such thing in a cutscene (awesome stuff), and naturally it could fit,
but i still think different classes (if not all) could have different means based on specialization
(Soldier would use a combat knife since he's trained to use it,
Biotic classes could imbue their strikes with biotic effects,
and Techs could make thire Melee have immolation or freezing effects.)

True, this isn't Dragon Age and i'm not trying to make ME into one,
but the methods are there. they can provied the basis.

Love that cutscene.
The biotic strikes for biotic classes makes sense and is backed p by the game, Kaiden mentions that he killed his Turian trainer with a biotic kick to the head, plus when Jack breaks out we see her using melee biotics on those Ymirs.  Does raise the question of what do you give the hybrid classes?
Does the vanguard get a knife/bayonet or biotic punch cause both would be equally cool, and do sentinels get a tech or biotic melee cause the idea of a power armour assisted punch sounds funky. 

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

I was being facetious.

Then I apologise.

[joriandrake]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Heh, could be.

Star Wars was designed from the ground up for melee combat (if you are not aware, it was based on an Akira Kurosawa samurai movie called the Dark Fortress and samurai use swords, so they kept the idea for Star Wars). Mass Effect was not designed for melee combat. Again, some is fine, but expecting a complete revision for ME3 may be a little unlikely.

aslong aa ME4 gets to look something like this, I am happy (1:13)

[Ahglock]

Sidewinder_617 wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Well ignoring the in-universe explanation for the moment - should a retractable bayonet be able to be attached to any weapon? I'm thinking it should, even though in the modern world it's only on rifles.

I've also added the idea to my ME3 suggestions blog (see my sig) and it fits in nicely I think.

Starcraft 2 had one such thing in a cutscene (awesome stuff), and naturally it could fit,
but i still think different classes (if not all) could have different means based on specialization
(Soldier would use a combat knife since he's trained to use it,
Biotic classes could imbue their strikes with biotic effects,
and Techs could make thire Melee have immolation or freezing effects.)

True, this isn't Dragon Age and i'm not trying to make ME into one,
but the methods are there. they can provied the basis.

While it would be cool if every class had its own melee move I don't expect it.  Heck I don't expect tehm to make cut scenese for any shep but soldier shep.  Yeah they went to a lot of default pistols sine all classes can use a pistol, but really nothing make sit look like an adept shep or engineer etc.  And I'd still want them powered down from Me2.  Even after I've taken down shields a punch does more damage than a burst from a smg and that seems odd to me.  These are like freaking rail guns for gods sake and my rifle butt hits harder?

[Turneyvore]

Short Answer, No

Long Answer, Yes

There should be no knife as such but their should be a melee weapon. I think it should be a biotic power only avaliable to vanguards (who else charges into battle and would ever get a chance to use one) and either be a toggle power or have a near instantaneous recharge and a long duration. It would do a hell of a lot of damage. Pretty much insta-kill everything because if you a Vanguard you already have a shotgun that can insta-kill most things. The sword should do more damage than the shotgun but it would be, by definition, a melee weapon and therefore have a much shorter range.

I also think it would be fun to, if the sword is already out when you charge an opponent, to auto-attack them with the sword and do even greater damage.

[1upD]

Turneyvore wrote...

Short Answer, No

Long Answer, Yes

There should be no knife as such but their should be a melee weapon. I think it should be a biotic power only avaliable to vanguards (who else charges into battle and would ever get a chance to use one) and either be a toggle power or have a near instantaneous recharge and a long duration. It would do a hell of a lot of damage. Pretty much insta-kill everything because if you a Vanguard you already have a shotgun that can insta-kill most things. The sword should do more damage than the shotgun but it would be, by definition, a melee weapon and therefore have a much shorter range.

I also think it would be fun to, if the sword is already out when you charge an opponent, to auto-attack them with the sword and do even greater damage.

Well, you can't rule out stealth knifing for the Infilitrator, but other than that this is what I'd like to see from melee weapons. That and Krogan melee fighters. (Wrex with biotic melee? Yes please)

[joriandrake]

I just realized something thinking about melee battles in Mass Effect and how jedi don't use guns



There are always eceptions, I remember some Star Wars story during the classic Empire era where a jedi masqueraded himself as a mercenary and hid his lightsaber in his gun, sure normally he wouldn't be equal to a trained soldier considering gun skills, but he wasn't bad with it, plus he could also use the Force to reinforce accuracy or damage of the gun.



This is similar to how Luke used the Force for his piloting and targeting skills



Why do I bring this up? two things:





first I realized how much I loved the original Jedi Sentinel class, the one that is rogue-like and not the blademaster-like one I see emerging in The Old Republic MMO



second: even in Mass Effect universe I am sure there are races and cultures which still use melee weapons, humans as example I am sure didn't suddenly stop ninjutsu/kickbox/ect as guns appeared centuries ago and these are still teached anyway, some martial arts are even teached to various military and police organizations. It is all about in what you spend energy and time to learn, just as a Jedi who wants can learn to fly a fighter or use a rifle, I am sure a human Alliance soldier or an asari who wandered the galaxy "just a bit" can just as well learn and use various martial arts (and/or melee weapons) with or without weapons



and of course melee weapons can also evolve, perhaps even become multifunctional melee/ranged weapons, the example from an earlier post of mine, the forcelance from Andromeda is a good example of this

[Soldat13]

I don't feel that a knife would be effective. if a high velocity plasma round cannot pierce a barrier or armor then why would a knife be able to? However, a melee system that incorporates detection status, location and salvageable equipment. Examplaes of each:



1. If the enemy knows where you are then you would just be punching or kicking the person. If they don't know you're there you can snap their neck. Shepard did it in Miri's loyalty mission, but it shouldn't be something that you can just do whenever.



2. If you are in a snowy climate you can remove heating component to freeze opponent. Opposite for hot climates. Finally if you are in space you can remove thier breathing hose making them suffocates.



3. If there is a functional omni-tool you can use it to overload enemies systems and electrocute them. Similar to Garrus' recruit mission.



If there is a group of enemies you can only stealth kill one and the others will be alerted to the dead soldiers location, spotting you.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Soldat13 wrote...

I don't feel that a knife would be effective. if a high velocity plasma round cannot pierce a barrier or armor then why would a knife be able to?

For the same token, if a bullet can't penetrate a barrier or armour, how come you can beat them to death? There's no difference in terms of usage between the current melee and using a knife for melee.

[Soldat13]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Soldat13 wrote...

I don't feel that a knife would be effective. if a high velocity plasma round cannot pierce a barrier or armor then why would a knife be able to?

For the same token, if a bullet can't penetrate a barrier or armour, how come you can beat them to death? There's no difference in terms of usage between the current melee and using a knife for melee.

Think of barriers and armor as high tech kevlar. A knife cannot penetrate neither standard infintry ammo. But when you punch or shove them it causes imbalance and sometimes damage. I doubt the barriers are sophisticated enough to be an even protection. First thoughts would be to protect core then extremities. Therefore meleeing would be effective if you know what you're doing. It'd be really hard to animate all possibilties.

[Gleym]

Maybe if you'd read the freakin' Codex, Soldat13, you'd know why a knife would work. Or heck, if you'd read the thread, considering this point is brought up and addressed using info from the Codex at least fifty times by now.

[TheKillerAngel]

A stun baton or club that can overload an enemy's shields or shock an unshielded enemy would be decent.

[Ahglock]

Gleym wrote...

Maybe if you'd read the freakin' Codex, Soldat13, you'd know why a knife would work. Or heck, if you'd read the thread, considering this point is brought up and addressed using info from the Codex at least fifty times by now.

The codex says this. 
Copied from soeone elses post.
"The outer layer consists of automatically-generated kinetic barriers. Objects traveling above a certain speed will trigger the barrier's reflex system and be deflected,
provided there is enough energy left in the shield's power cell.....
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny
emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities.
This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles,
but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their
chair."

So where does it say not vs knives?

Do you think maybe your beleif is pure conjecture based on how you interpret terms like small and fast moving.  You want your dune like sheilds to be the reality, but all the codex compares it to is everday activities like sitting down.  I can assure you I swing punches faster than someone swings their butt into a chair.  The codex was also written in ME1 and many things have changed since then, barriers seem to work fine in game vs melee where as in ME1 they did not. 

So why don't you tone down the hostility since it is never clearly stated what happends in melee when you have a shield/barrier in ME2 level tech.

[Turneyvore]

All combat related classes should have their own unique melee attack and different systems for using it.



For Vanguards: Biotic Blade: A class feature that can be equipped and unequipped like a weapon but you need to go into the power menu for it not the weapon menu. Do even more damage than the shotgun which Vanguards already have. If a Vanguard charges an enemy with his sword out he would auto-attack that enemy almost always delivering an insta-kill.



For Infiltrators: Sabotage: The problem with stealth knifing in ME is that there is no system to support it and it would be better served in my opinion in a spin-off. (Mass Effect: Vigilante. The Lost Years of Garrus Vakarian) Therefore Infiltrators should be able to, only while stealthed, creep up behind their enemies and place a virus into their enemies suit that makes it explode at a preset interval in the future and allows the Infiltrator to remain cloaked. The longer the Infiltrator spends behind their opponent uploading the virus the more devastating the eventual blast but the dangers inherents in this system for the Infiltrator should be obvious.



Soldier: Knife: Soldiers all have cybernetic implants and genetic modifications to make them stronger and faster than humans of our day and age. Who is to say that they cannot deal significant trauma with a simple knife. That being said a knife is a wildly impractical weapon against an opponent with any time of armor. Therefore my vision for the soldier's knife would be a wrist mounted blade that extends when Shepard melees. His melees would become stabs which are many MANY times more effective than slashing attacks.

[transcendent12]

Knife not really necessary. Improved hand to hand melee would be welcomed though. Kinetic barriers can block weapons but it's clear that they can't deal with slow things like a punch. Biotics can still repel a soldiers punch with mass effect fields. But a biotic can biotically assist a punch, in the same way vanguards can charge and Samara kersplats Morinth/Mercs in cut scenes. Standard armor would resist.