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[Soldat13]

Gleym wrote...

Maybe if you'd read the freakin' Codex, Soldat13, you'd know why a knife would work. Or heck, if you'd read the thread, considering this point is brought up and addressed using info from the Codex at least fifty times by now.

Since you brought reading into this. Why didn't you read all of my posts on this website. You would know that I have not been playing long. Truthfully only about a year. I did not have the time or patience to read through 50 hours of information. I only read through necessary entries involving races and weapon classes to determine what race I would want in my squad and what weapons I would want to use.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Ahglock wrote...

Gleym wrote...

Maybe if you'd read the freakin' Codex, Soldat13, you'd know why a knife would work. Or heck, if you'd read the thread, considering this point is brought up and addressed using info from the Codex at least fifty times by now.

The codex says this. 
Copied from soeone elses post.
"The outer layer consists of automatically-generated kinetic barriers. Objects traveling above a certain speed will trigger the barrier's reflex system and be deflected, provided there is enough energy left in the shield's power cell... Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair."

So where does it say not vs knives?

It implies it. Yes Gleym needs an attitude adjustment, but he's right in this case. The thing is, a knife in melee and an elbow are going to going at about the same speed - if the elbow doesn't trigger the shields, the knife won't. This is actually demostrated quite well in a Stargate SG-1, season 1, episodes 13, 'The Nox'. The shield stops bullets penetrating, but a thrown knife is moving slowly enough to not activate the shield.

[Brotoss]

How about a psi blade?

[Ahglock]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Gleym wrote...

Maybe if you'd read the freakin' Codex, Soldat13, you'd know why a knife would work. Or heck, if you'd read the thread, considering this point is brought up and addressed using info from the Codex at least fifty times by now.

The codex says this. 
Copied from soeone elses post.
"The outer layer consists of automatically-generated kinetic barriers. Objects traveling above a certain speed will trigger the barrier's reflex system and be deflected, provided there is enough energy left in the shield's power cell... Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair."

So where does it say not vs knives?

It implies it. Yes Gleym needs an attitude adjustment, but he's right in this case. The thing is, a knife in melee and an elbow are going to going at about the same speed - if the elbow doesn't trigger the shields, the knife won't. This is actually demostrated quite well in a Stargate SG-1, season 1, episodes 13, 'The Nox'. The shield stops bullets penetrating, but a thrown knife is moving slowly enough to not activate the shield.

But in ME2 the shield does trigger vs melee.  Go check right now, when a husk hits you does it take out your shield or does it go striaght to health, when you rifle butt someone does it go straight to health or hit the shield first.  There were things that avoided shields in ME1, like many other things it changed in the 2 years between ME1 and 2.  Shepard has a lot of changes ot get used to.  Since it is an ambiguous statement they didn't even need ot update the codex(which they frequently didn't do anyways). 

And while stargate sg1 is awesome for as long as Jack is on the team it is not relevant to ME2 technology. 

So not only does Gleym need an attitude adjustment he is wrong in this. 

[severe31]

I think a knife or pysblade is a great idea. I feal the melee needs improvment over all. Uncharted 2 has a fun melee system. U can incoprate a weapon into. as far as the science behind the sheilds, comon guys its fiction. If they realy want to they can make a knife work.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Ahglock wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

It implies it. Yes Gleym needs an attitude adjustment, but he's right in this case. The thing is, a knife in melee and an elbow are going to going at about the same speed - if the elbow doesn't trigger the shields, the knife won't. This is actually demostrated quite well in a Stargate SG-1, season 1, episodes 13, 'The Nox'. The shield stops bullets penetrating, but a thrown knife is moving slowly enough to not activate the shield.

But in ME2 the shield does trigger vs melee.  Go check right now, when a husk hits you does it take out your shield or does it go striaght to health, when you rifle butt someone does it go straight to health or hit the shield first.  There were things that avoided shields in ME1, like many other things it changed in the 2 years between ME1 and 2.  Shepard has a lot of changes ot get used to.  Since it is an ambiguous statement they didn't even need ot update the codex(which they frequently didn't do anyways). 

And while stargate sg1 is awesome for as long as Jack is on the team it is not relevant to ME2 technology. 

So not only does Gleym need an attitude adjustment he is wrong in this. 

I'll take your word for melee in ME2, I barely do melee (even though I'm predominantly a Vanguard) so I don't pay too much attention. My point still stands though - an elbow and a knife are going to be going at about the same speed, why would the shield - even if it is activated - make any difference?

As for the SG-1 reference I realise it's not directly relevant to the ME universe, that example just shows off the gameplay mechanics I had in mind really well as the situation is quite similar.

[Soldat13]

So it has been proven to a degree both ways. However it would be ultimately ineffective. The knife would just get in the way. You would hardly use it. Also I doubt Bioware wants to follow Bethesda games. Knife and stealth kills were both present in Fallout 3. It proves for an interesting adjustment however. Imagine grabbing samurai sword off of Morinth's wall and striking her down or using it later.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Well that's the thing, it gives options. It also depends heavily on HOW Bioware would implement it. My personal preference would be for the option of adding a bayonet to a weapon (which would require weapons customisation) allowing you to add a bayonet for increased melee if you want.

[Autoclave]

if they manage to bring in a knife a equal gameplay value like it was in Splinter Cell 3: Chaos Theory, then i am all for it

[archurban]

machete is one of bad ass sword. it's very powerful. you can just hit multiple enemies down matter of seconds.

[Soldat13]

archurban wrote...

machete is one of bad ass sword. it's very powerful. you can just hit multiple enemies down matter of seconds.

Machete vs plasma weapons. . . . . . . . . . . . . Yeah you'd win

But really it'd be effective for the first two enemies and then all the other would unload into you. End result. Hardcore or Insanity - dead. Veteran - No Shields, half health. Anything below that - Half shields.

Probably if strapped to your back then you can swing at an enemy that is too close.

I still think integrated melee would be nice. I would love to instakill one of the vorcha on Mordin's reqruit mission.

[kill_switch_423]

I wouldn't mind having one of the (confirmed to be in-universe via codex) monomolecular blades attached to Shepard's forearm or weapon to replace the bash, especially as a Vanguard/Infiltrator. Being monomolecular, it could pierce through armor and kinetic barriers wouldn't matter (whether you believe the retconned codex or not, melee does do damage. Suppose shields do block melee, like in ME2, why wouldn't a monomolecular blade do damage is an elbow/weapon bash can?).

[Ahglock]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

I'll take your word for melee in ME2, I barely do melee (even though I'm predominantly a Vanguard) so I don't pay too much attention. My point still stands though - an elbow and a knife are going to be going at about the same speed, why would the shield - even if it is activated - make any difference?

As for the SG-1 reference I realise it's not directly relevant to the ME universe, that example just shows off the gameplay mechanics I had in mind really well as the situation is quite similar.

I don't think it makes a difference whether you use a elbow or knife they both would hit the shields and the shields absorb the damage before it goes to health.  They actually do fairly well vs shields when shepard has all the melee upgrades a single blow takes out most shields.  But despite dune, stargate or ME1 shields now block melee attacks and I'd assume thrown knives as well though that never comes up so who knows.

Anyways a bayonet or whatever works for me depending on development time that goes to it.  But I could see a weapon mod maybe +30% melee damage bayonet.  My only thing is I don't like the absurd melee bonuss some games give to reward people for getting close, where melee is a one shot kill or close to it.  I don't care if the infiltrator or whatever has a big damage melee attack, but I don't want a gun based game to become melee based because they add falcon punch into the mix.  Melee should be what you do when you are out of ammo or reloading, not what you do as a primary strategy. 

[Sidewinder_617]

kill_switch_423 wrote...

I wouldn't mind having one of the (confirmed to be in-universe via codex) monomolecular blades attached to Shepard's forearm or weapon to replace the bash, especially as a Vanguard/Infiltrator. Being monomolecular, it could pierce through armor and kinetic barriers wouldn't matter (whether you believe the retconned codex or not, melee does do damage. Suppose shields do block melee, like in ME2, why wouldn't a monomolecular blade do damage is an elbow/weapon bash can?).

that's one half; the other could be upgrades to the blade, different blades changed via the weapon locker,
or depending on class, the character tree can provide bonuses for melee combat.

[Ahriman]

Again about melee weapon and shields. Shields protect from melee damage just because Bioware didn't program separate damage system for this. All damage goes to shields then to health, that's all.



Also I don't support bayonets because pistol or sniper riffle with bayonet will look weird and Shepard wont use it in cutscenes.

I want melee weapon for my vanguard, because I like punch my enemies to death and with blade it could be much more showy. And I want it for cutscenes, imagine how could look battle with SB if Shepard had rectable blade.

[Ahglock]

Wizz wrote...

Again about melee weapon and shields. Shields protect from melee damage just because Bioware didn't program separate damage system for this. All damage goes to shields then to health, that's all.

Also I don't support bayonets because pistol or sniper riffle with bayonet will look weird and Shepard wont use it in cutscenes.
I want melee weapon for my vanguard, because I like punch my enemies to death and with blade it could be much more showy. And I want it for cutscenes, imagine how could look battle with SB if Shepard had rectable blade.

That may be the reason why shields work vs melee but the end result it the same.  They decided clips would make the game more entertaining so they came up with a half assed in universe explanation for that change happening overnight. Whether it is due to being lazy or better gameplay the end result it shields now work vs melee and since the codex works in either case they didn't really need tro explain anything via the codex. 

And yes a pistol bayonet would look kind of silly.  Though the final fantasy games have been riding the gunblade thing now for what 10 years.  But if it wasn't a standard but a mod you could add to certain guns I think it would work.  But that is assuming they add some kind of mod system back into me3. 

Also if there was an armor mod on the arms for extra damage through wrist blades hey go for it.  Again I just don't see it as the standard. 

[Majin Paul]

I'd like to see knives introduced, I'm reading Retribution and knives sound pretty useful in the ME universe.

If they added them though, the melee system would need improving and perhaps the ability to stealth kill or put you in situations where the knife is useful.

[lazuli]

Soldat13 wrote...

But really it'd be effective for the first two enemies and then all the other would unload into you. End result. Hardcore or Insanity - dead. Veteran - No Shields, half health. Anything below that - Half shields.

Plenty of people are capable of surviving close combat on Insanity.  Check out the strategy and builds forum.  If anything, melee weapons would probably make it easier than it already is.

[fmsantos39]

I think instead of knife BW should add some close combat combos for the close combat classes(like vanguard) or just put more damage and stun time to the meele attack.
I really dont see ME with knife, I just can Imagine that way if bioware incorporate a sealth system and shepard's only picking the knife to instant stealth kill...

Modifié par fmsantos39, 08 décembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[lazuli]

fmsantos39 wrote...

I think istead of knife BW should add some close combat combos for the close combat classes(like vanguard) or just put more damage and stun time to the meele attack.

Yes.  In response to enemies staggering (like when they lose their shields or panic due to being on fire), we could be given a prompt to initiate a quick melee combo or finisher.

[archurban]

Soldat13 wrote...

archurban wrote...

machete is one of bad ass sword. it's very powerful. you can just hit multiple enemies down matter of seconds.

Machete vs plasma weapons. . . . . . . . . . . . . Yeah you'd win

But really it'd be effective for the first two enemies and then all the other would unload into you. End result. Hardcore or Insanity - dead. Veteran - No Shields, half health. Anything below that - Half shields.

Probably if strapped to your back then you can swing at an enemy that is too close.

I still think integrated melee would be nice. I would love to instakill one of the vorcha on Mordin's reqruit mission.

think about it. it's 22nd century. I just said 'melee weapon'. but thchnology should be involved in this weapon. so just like Tron, you can charge exrta power (when you hold right mouse button), additional throwing light (laser or plasma or particle beam whatever) like star wars, you can also throw like boomerang (cut all enemies' heads). of course, it's not for all class. it would be perfect for Vanguard. well, it's just a dream.

[Fromyou]

No, I don't think they should since Mass Effect is a 3rd person game behind view. And i don't think that it would work well, but that is my 2 cents though I'm not Bioware

[archurban]

I don't know what is different between first person and third person in today game? it is only the point of view. I prefer third person perspective because I can see entire my character how he or she looks like not like dumb ass FPS (black ops stuff).

[lazuli]

Fromyou wrote...

No, I don't think they should since Mass Effect is a 3rd person game behind view. And i don't think that it would work well, but that is my 2 cents though I'm not Bioware

I would argue that melee weapons work better in 3rd person games than they do in 1st person games.  Melee combat in Oblivion, for instance, struck me as cumbersome in 1st person mode.  I'm not in favor of anything that comprehensive though.  I'd prefer something like Resident Evil 5's system, where you receive a button prompt when you are close enough to a vulnerable enemy (staggering because of losing shields or something).  If you press the button, your character performs a stylish melee attack and then returns to your control.

[Soahfreako]

Brotoss wrote...

How about a psi blade?

I like this idea, but haven't you been threatened to be banned if you continue posting SC2 related stuff all the time? :/