563 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterDyslexo]

Why do people gotta slam this? Its a game, have some fun

[Kadi]

Gleym wrote...

So instead of using an actual weapon for a melee attack.. you want to smack someone with your gun, or punch them? Why, exactly? And if you say "hurr because it's not realistic to use a knife" then I should probably point out that bashing someone with your gun is even less realistic, considering that doing so is likely to break the firearm and render it useless, and that punching them is even less sensible and less effective.

Realism has nothing to do with it, Im perfectly happy with the guns and abilites we have already. it would be nice if Biotic's had melee attacks like a biotic kick, techs had maybe a tazer stun-  like crowd control ability. but most enemies use projectile weapons in mass effect and mass effect 2,  and I cant see them adding new melee battles to compensate the want for a knife, or a sword, where guns, rocket launchers, psychic powers, psychic barriers, are being use by most of the enemies.

it coul be nice idea  but unless shepard is put in a situation where the enemey would fight with a blade or a club like weapon or in a chamber that any weapon fire could spark an explosion or something like that  then i cant see it working.

[Tokion]

I remember Kai Lang from Retribution uses a combat knife along with his trusty heavy pistol extensively, along with his agile kungfu kicks. It would be nice to see some melee attacks rather than the same old elbowing the enemy 1000x times repeatedly.

[Gleym]

Hackerspawn wrote...

I say let them have their knive. It shouldn't help them at all but they should have it. I mean let them bring their Knive into a Gunfight.... Darwinism will take care of the rest...

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.
That's all I have to say to your link.

[joriandrake]

Tokion wrote...

I remember Kai Lang from Retribution uses a combat knife along with his trusty heavy pistol extensively, along with his agile kungfu kicks. It would be nice to see some melee attacks rather than the same old elbowing the enemy 1000x times repeatedly.

qft

[joriandrake]

Undertone wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I. Want. More. Melee.

I don't just want a knife. I want melee. Melee is cool. It is fun.

You’ve got krogan charging at you full bore, getting up close, getting in your face. Then you hand me these AWESOME biotic powers – and I never get to go ninja on anyone with them? WTF.

I want biotic punches, biotic kicks, biotic grab-and-slams, I want to seize someone biotically, lift them up into the air, and hurl them thirty feet over the side of a building. I want to hurl people into other people. I want to become delighted at the sight of explosives tanks because it means I will be able to lift them and throw them at enemies.

I want a freaking arena in the Afterlife called Biotic Showdown where biotics fight for credits. And I want to participate.

That's exactly what I always wanted from biotics. 

As for melee, there are countless examples how melee weapons can still be used in a sci-fi fights or whatever firearms you have.

The Chronicles of Riddick
StarCraft
Halo
Starship Troopers
Star Wars
Blood Rayne (although that isn't exactly sci-fi but came to mind)

I mean there are countless examples, lore is not a problem as people have already mentioned. The only problem is how to balance melee fights with firearms to the point that both are useful and have their particular moments without overshadowing one another. Meaning I don't want crazy dash ala the Halo sword, or I don't want melee to be so powerful that I can forget about guns and simply charge anyone or a group of enemies.

If not overall use of melee combos, or being able to actually fight then instead add finishers (Halo: Reach is far from being the first shooter to have such). As we already pointed vanguards and infiltrators already have the capacity for that. That would also add an element of stealth which infiltrator players would definitely enjoy. Hell they have tactical cloak after all.

 I would love Mass Effect on a whole new level if biotics are augmented (but still balanced) and if melee gets included.

you forgot Andromeda, it had a lot of good melee fights, also some fun gags

[lazuli]

I enjoy close combat in its current form, but I wouldn't mind some more depth.  Let us do moderately stylish finishing attacks to staggering or otherwise vulnerable enemies a la RE5.

[Halfdan The Menace]

Should use a chainsaw as bayonet!



EASIER!!! AND WAYYY BETTER!!!

[joriandrake]

ModestmeNTaLmogul wrote...

Should use a chainsaw as bayonet!



EASIER!!! AND WAYYY BETTER!!!

W40k does that better

[Skalman91]

I say give shep a regular combat knife and the ability to preform finishing moves at the press of a button like in say, assassins creed, splinter cell conviction or halo reach.

Now before you all scream GAME IMBALANCE, it wouldn't be overpowered to have a "insta-kill" button because it only woks in melee and it keeps you locked in place for 2-3 seconds while you brutally murder your victim, so in that time you'd be filled with more holes than a swiss cheese if you're in line of sight to any other enemies. This wouldn't work against bosses for obvious reasons.

Also make this ability ignore both shield and armor, or don't bother implementing it at all.
It's been proven time and time again that shields are completely useless in melee and armor is very ineffective against someone skilled in melee fighting.

Modifié par Skalman91, 15 octobre 2010 - 07:17 .

[SpectreSeven]

You have biotics to throw and pull people. Why would you need a goddamn golfclub?

[Dasher10]

Chiansaw plz?

[Deadguy23]

I think knives would be okay for quiet cinematic assassinations. But they should only work if the target's head and/or neck aren't armored. Neck-snapping would be good too and would probably be for fully armored enemies. I suppose this would only be for organic enemies since you can't slit a geth's throat. So as long as they can't penetrate armor, I'd be happy for knives to be in ME3.

[gotthammer]

Why shouldn't knives be able to penetrate armor? I mean, even armor in ME1/2 must have weak points, right? (the parts that obviously don't have that hard looking 'shell')



I mean, even in our modern time, if memory serves, unless your body armor/ballistic vest isn't rated against knives, then, well, it can't be relied upon to stop them (unless you're wearing plates, but that goes back to the argument of striking vulnerable parts...which a competent knife-wielder/fighter will know anyway).



That and as w/ any weapon, wouldn't the knives/blades/swords/melee weapons in ME also adapt w/ armor? Don't they already have monomolecular blades or something?

[Kangasniemi]

gotthammer wrote...

Why shouldn't knives be able to penetrate armor? I mean, even armor in ME1/2 must have weak points, right? (the parts that obviously don't have that hard looking 'shell')

I mean, even in our modern time, if memory serves, unless your body armor/ballistic vest isn't rated against knives, then, well, it can't be relied upon to stop them (unless you're wearing plates, but that goes back to the argument of striking vulnerable parts...which a competent knife-wielder/fighter will know anyway).

That and as w/ any weapon, wouldn't the knives/blades/swords/melee weapons in ME also adapt w/ armor? Don't they already have monomolecular blades or something?

Can you puncture a weak point of an armor with a knife? Most certainly yes. Will that do any good? Not really no. The whole point of armor is to protect the vital points of your body. So the weak points are at the non-vital parts of the body, and attacking those will be only annoying to the enemy. So the best thing you can do is wound the enemy and ****** them off. (Even without bodyarmor killing a person with a knife is a whole alot harder than killing someone with a gun.) Won't even bother mentioning swords, in modern combat those are retarded.

A rifle butt hit like we already have in the game is another thing. No matter what kind of armor you have a rifle but WILL hurt you or atleast knock you of balance long enough to get you shot. And yes, 99,9999% of the guns in the world today can be used as a bat and the gun won't mind at all.

As for game mechanics melee combat doesn't work. Most of the games use melee as an instat I-WIN-button. I mean a burst from an assault rifle or a shotgun blast to the chest from 1 m away does nothing, but a knife stab to the toe of an enemy is an instant kill is REALLY cool. The worst example of this is Republic Commando. The only thing that kills something is the combat knife and after 2 kills that gets boring as hell.

So there are milions of fantasy (although they are called sci-fi for some reason) games that use melee combat, lets keep ME just as is it, a hard core Science fiction game.

[gotthammer]

Kangasniemi wrote...
Can you puncture a weak point of an armor with a knife? Most certainly yes. Will that do any good? Not really no. The whole point of armor is to protect the vital points of your body. So the weak points are at the non-vital parts of the body, and attacking those will be only annoying to the enemy. So the best thing you can do is wound the enemy and ****** them off. (Even without bodyarmor killing a person with a knife is a whole alot harder than killing someone with a gun.) Won't even bother mentioning swords, in modern combat those are retarded.

I dunno. I'm pretty sure the area under the armpits (y'know, the one near the heart) usually has 'soft' armor. Large gorgets aside, the throat is pretty open, too. Rear of the knees (not 'vital', per se, but if you're mobility is impeded, I'm sure it'll be harder to fight). 
And an experienced knife wielder can deliver a lot of blows/cuts/stabs in a relatively short period of time, too (I recall a drill where we're taught that we can close in a distance of around 15ft. in under a second, then to stab as quickly as possible (while keeping in mind target areas like eyes/face, throat, neck/jugular, flanks, armpit, etc.))

That and it's sci-fi: as I said, is it too much of a stretch to think that the weapons, ranged or melee, will have adapted to the armor of the time? 

And, yes, swords in our modern time are 'out of place' (still deadly tho'), but in a setting which may allow for augmented strength/cybernetics, currently-non-exisitent-but-super-strong/resilient alloys, and biotics (esp. w/ abilities that allow you to close in rather quickly)... 

[All-a-Mort]

In the era of plate armour when the torso and head were well protected from cuts, weapons were redesigned to be pointier and stiffer and to attack the weak points of the armour, where the plates met at joints and under the arms. Stab someone under the armpit and you might score a mortal wound, if not then aiming at limbs might cripple (if the legs) or disarm your opponent. Granted for a game like ME that might not be sufficient to be useful in the scenario where a melee attack needs to be virtually an instakill (though I suppose you could have scripted finishing moves perhaps where whilst carrying it out you are invulnerable like Kasumi). Arguably more blunt force weapons might be useful for a melee perspective but then I suppose the mighty elbow of doom, rifle stock or pistol-whipping (which would logically replace the elbow) or biotics fill that niche already. I suppose you could go for a sort of vibroblade or piezoblade style weapon or as a bayonet that can ignore shields or ignore armour (but not both as that would overkill) for say Vanguards who get up close and personal with enemies.

[Tempest]

I will say this. If ANYONE here ever read the book or saw any of the movies on "Dune". You would know exactly why a knife is VERY important.

Though I do believe that it would be a very effective way against Krogan of whom we have to currently reduce 2 different armor based defenses BEFORE effecting the actual health. I would say that such a weapon should be specialized for certain classes only. Like the Vanguard whose playing style is designed for close combat but currently lacks weapons that make it an effective class.



For example. After the vanguard "Burst" ability and getting close to an opponent who is stunned may allow him/her a quick kill or an immobilizing hit using a knife.

[Skalman91]

gotthammer wrote...

Why shouldn't knives be able to penetrate armor? I mean, even armor in ME1/2 must have weak points, right? (the parts that obviously don't have that hard looking 'shell')

Indeed they have.

gotthammer wrote...

I mean, even in our modern time, if memory serves, unless your body armor/ballistic vest isn't rated against knives, then, well, it can't be relied upon to stop them (unless you're wearing plates, but that goes back to the argument of striking vulnerable parts...which a competent knife-wielder/fighter will know anyway).

And even in today's time, armor/protection against bladed weapons isn't all that effective, especially against someone who knows what they're doing.

gotthammer wrote...

That and as w/ any weapon, wouldn't the knives/blades/swords/melee weapons in ME also adapt w/ armor? Don't they already have monomolecular blades or something?

First off, Biotic/kinetic barriers react to high velocity projectiles, which is the reason they don't activate when you move, when it rains or when someone punches you in the face. They also activate some 5-6 inches away from the body, which is why you can press a gun to someone point blank and the shields won't stop the projectile.
If i recall correctly Armor most commonly consists of hard ablative ceramic plates, designed to chip off when hit by a projectile. These are the "hard" parts of the suit that protects large parts of the torso and arms/legs, but since it's stiff, you can't have it cover the joints. These are the weak parts at which a knife could penetrate and do some real damage.

Also it's mentioned in the Mass Effect 1 codex that krogan skin is so thick and resilient, it's impervious to any melee weapon short of a molecular blade. Implying that:
1. Soldiers are not encouraged to fight a krogan in melee as this would be tantamount to suicide.
2. Melee combat is present in the ME universe despite the technological advancement of armor and weapons.
3. Molecular blades exist in the ME lore. This proves that melee weapons have advanced along with armor and ranged weapons.

So yes, I do think that knives and "execution moves"/"finishers" should be put into ME3 and it wouldn't be out of place. Just keep your swords, axes and chainsaws away from it.

[JaegerBane]

Aleksandar Shepard wrote...

Using blades and that sort of dueling weapons is futile in ME universe and its more disadvantage than advantage especially if your enemies have kinetic barriers or biotic shields ( which most have ).

After playing Lair of the Shadow Broker, there isn't really any way that this can be interpreted to be correct.

I actually would prefer a retractable punch-blade of some description (similar to what the Deltas have in Star Wars: Republic Commando) over just bashing someone in the face with the elbow.... but I don't think it'll make much difference.

[Water Dumple]

I don't much see the point of range-limited melee weapons when you already have fully automatic shotguns and whatnot. They work at greater range, and at the one range where melee is effective, I'd still rather have a shotgun than a butterfly knife.

[uzivatel]

JaegerBane wrote...

After playing Lair of the Shadow Broker, there isn't really any way that this can be interpreted to be correct.

Try touching that enemy prior destroying his shield and armor, you may realize Aleksandar has point ... 

[gotthammer]

Water Dumple wrote...

I don't much see the point of range-limited melee weapons when you already have fully automatic shotguns and whatnot. They work at greater range, and at the one range where melee is effective, I'd still rather have a shotgun than a butterfly knife.

In 'real life', I'd rather have both that shotgun and a knife/blunt-instrument-of-pain (and a pistol, too).
Gah. Of all the knife types, I really don't like the balisong/'butterfly knife'. Maybe a decent line lock folder or, better yet, a fixed blade.
For ME: I'd prefer a fixed blade type weapon (or do the monomolecular weapons there 'retract' like in some settings? I recall one setting, Shadowrun or Battletech<?not sure anymore>, where the mono weapons were even 'lit' w/ laser or something to make the blade visible).

re: Dune
yeah. I'm familiar w/ Dune's knife-fighting 'mechanics' (i.e., to intentionally slow the blade so as to bypass the shields...dang. I really need to re-read that book, it's been a while since my last re-read). 
Does the ME setting have something similar? (I thought someone mentioned that ME did in one of the earlier posts here...too lazy to check the codex right now *finishes re-installing Sins of a Solar Empire...* )

[Skalman91]

Yes, monomolecular blades exist in ME.



Read the Krogan biology codex

[Ser Isely]

I like the idea and all but it would seem odd that Shepard suddenly becomes a knife fanatic ... unless he/she gets stuck somewhere prison like with only a knife or something to escape with.