563 réponses à ce sujet

[CARL_DF90]

In all honesty I support the idea of a better melee fighting system in ME3, ESPECIALLY for when enemies get too close, when I get too close, or when I just want to saved some ammo and get up close and personal and just beat the crap out of an enemy.

[Water Dumple]

Planet_Side wrote...

you guys do realize putting more melee things in ME3 is just another cause for more complaining and nit picking.

Given the range of complaints here, I think having content at all in ME3 will cause unavoidable whining. ...Although without content, people would complain about there being no finish to the trilogy, so I guess there's really no way out of that now.

Melee could potentially work I suppose, but I'd like to see it have some unique characteristics and different types of attacks than just M1ing an enemy with the melee equipped.

[Atmosfear3]

Outside of special assassination animations like you find in Turok (360), Gears of War and HALO Reach, the way the game is designed, it doesn't really allow for that range of motion to have very elaborate melee moves in a shooting game.

[Gleym]

Well, as has been suggested a few times, a fist-mounted retractable punch-blade would work especially well. Perhaps make it monomolecular as well. A weapon like that can be used for a single stabbing animation as a finisher on knocked-down or weakened opponents, as well as being used for a single wide swing or sweeping motion against close-range targets like husks. Heck, if it's something that retracts into the fist of the armor, one could speculate if there might be upgrades or customizable ones that you can purchase, just the same as armor components.

[Tempest]

Wait....?...?...Did we all (myself included) forget Kasumis melee attack? I'm pretty sure she has one hell of a punch and lacks the serious upgrades Shepard went through.

[Skyline GT-R34]

Ser Isely wrote...

I like the idea and all but it would seem odd that Shepard suddenly becomes a knife fanatic ... unless he/she gets stuck somewhere prison like with only a knife or something to escape with.

Knife fanatic? Sign me up!

I think a knife as a supplemental melee is not a bad idea, like the Vanguard's charge, it's a situational weapon, no one it's going to pull a knife out, yell "Leeroy Jenkins" and rush a group of krogans on Insanity. So the balancing should be fairly straightforward.

[Skalman91]

The knife could easily be made a 1-hit kill, aka: tap B to do a finishing move ala turok, GoW, Halo reach, splinter cell conviction or assassins creed.



It won't be unbalanced cause you'll only use it when you really have to (cornered) or when enemies are "alone", meaning his friends are not in a clear line of sight, so they can't fill you with holes while you turn their friend into shish kebab.

So if you run into a group of enemies and start hacking and stabbing, you're gonna have more holes through you than a swiss cheese

[Gleym]

Plus, think about the potential a knife or melee weapon would have in terms of cutscenes. There's plenty of cutscenes of squad members like Samara, Kasumi, Thane and such kicking ass in direct conflict, and even LotSB had one or two direct confrontations between Shepard and a foe, although both occasions were strictly fisticuffs in nature. I imagine Shepard, while not a super martial artist like Kasumi and Thane, would still be able to pull off some good old fashion badassery with a melee weapon via cutscene.

It'd be especially nice if in ME3 we had the return of an actual villain like Saren through which a direct fight could be achieved. Heck, maybe even quick-time responses like the Paragon and Renegade ones mid-fight. Imagine going toe to toe with whoever the big bad is, and a Renegade icon popping up, followed by Shepard giving them a prompt kick in the nads, or a suckerpunch.

Modifié par Gleym, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:55 .

[Skalman91]

Gleym wrote...

Plus, think about the potential a knife or melee weapon would have in terms of cutscenes. There's plenty of cutscenes of squad members like Samara, Kasumi, Thane and such kicking ass in direct conflict, and even LotSB had one or two direct confrontations between Shepard and a foe, although both occasions were strictly fisticuffs in nature. I imagine Shepard, while not a super martial artist like Kasumi and Thane, would still be able to pull off some good old fashion badassery with a melee weapon via cutscene.

It'd be especially nice if in ME3 we had the return of an actual villain like Saren through which a direct fight could be achieved. Heck, maybe even quick-time responses like the Paragon and Renegade ones mid-fight. Imagine going toe to toe with whoever the big bad is, and a Renegade icon popping up, followed by Shepard giving them a prompt kick in the nads, or a suckerpunch.

NO QUICKTIME EVENTS.
EVER.
PERIOD.


Quicktime events end up in ME3 I'll bring a sawed off shotgun, knock down biowares front door and recite Ash speech from Evil Dead 3...

[Gleym]

Except there are already quick-time events in ME2. They're called Paragon/Renegade Interrupts. My meaning was meant entirely in the same sense. That the fight will play out anyway, except you can use Interrupts to your advantage.

Modifié par Gleym, 17 octobre 2010 - 05:27 .

[Skalman91]

Gleym wrote...

Except there are already quick-time events in ME2. They're called Paragon/Renegade Interrupts. My meaning was meant entirely in the same sense. That the fight will play out anyway, except you can use Interrupts to your advantage.

Isn't that pretty redundant? There's a cutscene where you're beating up a guy, a prompt flashes and you press a button, now you continue beating him up in a slightly different way. Seems terribly unecessary and a waste of time and resources to make.

[Gleym]

Not if it can affect the outcome somehow, or improve your chances when the game switches to gameplay mode. Just like many Paragon/Renegade Interrupts serve a tactical purpose in order to remove or reduce the number of enemies you're fighting, or weaken them. I really don't see how you would see this as being any different.

[Kangasniemi]

Skalman91 wrote...

Gleym wrote...

Plus, think about the potential a knife or melee weapon would have in terms of cutscenes. There's plenty of cutscenes of squad members like Samara, Kasumi, Thane and such kicking ass in direct conflict, and even LotSB had one or two direct confrontations between Shepard and a foe, although both occasions were strictly fisticuffs in nature. I imagine Shepard, while not a super martial artist like Kasumi and Thane, would still be able to pull off some good old fashion badassery with a melee weapon via cutscene.

It'd be especially nice if in ME3 we had the return of an actual villain like Saren through which a direct fight could be achieved. Heck, maybe even quick-time responses like the Paragon and Renegade ones mid-fight. Imagine going toe to toe with whoever the big bad is, and a Renegade icon popping up, followed by Shepard giving them a prompt kick in the nads, or a suckerpunch.

NO QUICKTIME EVENTS.
EVER.
PERIOD.


Quicktime events end up in ME3 I'll bring a sawed off shotgun, knock down biowares front door and recite Ash speech from Evil Dead 3...

Quicktime events like done in ME2 are fine.

Premade melee combat finishing moves on the other hand are not fine, they actually are the worst thing in todays gaming. There is nothing more annoying to be forced to use melee and have to look the same damn 5 sec long premade animation with every single enemy.

And yes every single game that uses these premade kill moves force the player to over use them time and time again. There are many ways to do this and none of them are good, the simplest (and worse) way is by making the weapons so under powered that they are next to useless. The reason why these moves are so over used is most likely because the animators **** and whine how they did hard work on these 2 different 5 sec animations and those aren't seen by many enough players in the animators mind.

So NO premade melee kill animations in ME or any other game. EVER.

[Munkerz]

I'm not sure where I stand on this. I'm all up for options, being a role player n' all; but it has to be implemented well. And that would appear to be a problem, judging from past games and their shoddy melee, be it useless or insta-kill.

[uzivatel]

Skalman91 wrote...

The knife could easily be made a 1-hit kill, aka: tap B to do a finishing move ala turok, GoW, Halo reach, splinter cell conviction or assassins creed.

I always thought ME combat should be more like GRAW than, say, Halo or Gears.

[Hackerspawn]

Mankind invented rifles so it wouldn't have to go into melee anymore. I'm not sure if i wanna evolve backwards.

[Gleym]

Hackerspawn wrote...

Mankind invented rifles so it wouldn't have to go into melee anymore. I'm not sure if i wanna evolve backwards.

Please don't tell me you're serious. Cause if you're serious then just.. wow.. Just.. wow. *Shakes head*

[Joshep]

Rivercurse wrote...

If enemies get that close to you (apart from husks on insanity), then you're playing the game wrong.

So playin with a Vanguard is playin the game wrong? Think before you speak, some of us do not like to be hiding in cover the whole game.


And yes, i would like to have knifes, plasma swords or something like that.

In fact, i would be AWESOME if the improved the melee attack system, take a look at Jack doing biotic punches to the guards in the prison, i remember Kaidan saying something about he killing a guy with a "Biotic kick" or Thane snaping necks at close combat.

Something like the CQC in metal gear solid 3 but with biotics would be cool.

A melee-oriented class would be good too, like a plasma sword wielder or something like that.

EDIT:
Quick time events is a HORRIBLE idea, a CQC element like the metal gear series would be far more apropiate.

Modifié par Joshep, 17 octobre 2010 - 05:40 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Swords and other melee weapons have no place in the Mass Effect series.

Realistically if you bring a sword to a gunfight it should end like this 9.9 out of 10 times:

(Fast fwd to 4:10)



Guns have made swords obsolete. That is why most armies no longer issue them except for ceremonial purposes. Also swords and other cutting weapons wouldn't be able to penetrate most body armor in the ME universe.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 17 octobre 2010 - 06:37 .

[Joshep]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Guns have made swords obsolete.

Then why ALL marines are trained in Close quarters combat? Or why do they ALL bring combat knifes to the battle field?

Aedan_Cousland wrote...
Also swords and other cutting weapons wouldn't be able to
penetrate most body armor in the ME universe.

That's why you aim for the neck.


And ME doesn't have to be realistic, as a Vanguard i would prefer to have a knife, rather than a gun, what's more powerful? a Jedi with a sole light saber or dozen of shock troopers with laser guns?

[Gleym]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Swords and other melee weapons have no place in the Mass Effect series.

That's why Tali and Zaeed carry knives, right? I swear, I can never take naysayers seriously when they just blurt out stuff like "has no place" and "isn't realistic" without any sort of evidence or reason outside of "hurr I don't like melee in my shootan gaem."

Modifié par Gleym, 17 octobre 2010 - 07:30 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Joshep wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Guns have made swords obsolete.

Then why ALL marines are trained in Close quarters combat? Or why do they ALL bring combat knifes to the battle field?

Just FYI, I'm a former Marine.

Yes all Marines are trained in hand to hand combat and they carry issued bayonets, and in some cases kabars that they purchased.  Does hand-to-hand combat still occasionally occur on the battlefield? Yes, and there are a few examples of it both in Iraq & Afghanistan. Does it occur often? No.

Swords can't be compared to bayonets or combat knives. The bayonet is used an extension of the rifle, not a replacement of it. Swords aren't issued because you can't wield one and a rifle at the same time. Using a sword in combat would require abandoning your rifle in favor of a blade, against other men armed with machine guns, assault rifles, carbines, pistols and grenades. You aren't going to come out on top of that fight.

While like the sword the kabar (combat knife) doesn't clip onto the rifle do you know what is it is most commonly used for? To open MREs and ammo cans. No one is going to drop their rifle or carbine or abandon a machine gun in favor of a knife in combat. If anyone has been reduced to fighting with a combat knife chances are something has gone drastically wrong, and your primary weapon has either run out of ammo or has been knocked out of action. It's not an ideal situation. Also hypothetically speaking if I were in that situation I'd much rather use the E-tool as a weapon than a combat knife. It has greater reach and can be wielded like an axe.

Modern combat also differs from combat in the Mass Effect universe in that the participants aren't armored beyond a flak jacket and helmet. In the Mass Effect universe your typical soldier or merc is armored from head to toe, making melee weapons even more obsolescent than they are currently. 

Joshep wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...
Also swords and other cutting weapons wouldn't be able to
penetrate most body armor in the ME universe.

Thats why you aim for the neck

Someone wearing combat armor in ME is also protected at the neck. Chances are he's also armed with a gun of some sort. Charging at a heavily armored merc with a sword should end with Shepard getting a shotgun blast to the face, and the 'critical mission failure' message.

And ME doesn't have to be realistic, as a Vanguard i would prefer to have a knife, rather than a gun, what's more powerful? a Jedi with a sole light saber or dozen of shock troopers with laser guns?

Unlike the Jedi Shepard isn't a wizard with magical powers.

I suppose biotic abilties are a bit like magic, but those biotic powers don't grant the ability to deflect incoming rounds with a blade.

I also disagree with the notion that Mass Effect doesn't have to be realistic. I like at least some effort put into it to make the universe (and combat) seem believable, so I don't have trouble suspending disbelief. But that's just me.

Gleym wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Swords and other melee weapons have no place in the Mass Effect series.

That's why Tali and Zaeed carry knives, right? I swear, I can never take naysayers seriously when they just blurt out stuff like "has no place" and "isn't realistic" without any sort of evidence or reason outside of "hurr I don't like melee in my shootan gaem."

Isn't that what you are doing? Arguing for the inclusion of melee weapons without justifying it beyond, "Hurr melee weapons would be teh awesome!1111"

I'll change my position on melee weapons in ME3 if someone can make a convincing argument that melee weapons have a major role on a modern battlefield.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 17 octobre 2010 - 08:26 .

[Fro_McJoe]

Boomsticks solve most problems, that and your melee is way to powerful anyways.