563 réponses à ce sujet

[Roamingmachine]

Kangasniemi wrote...
So you honestly think that it would be safer to let a blood-grazed lunatic get so close that you could try to stab him with a knife is a good idea? You do know that there are different kinds of bullets right? No matter how blood lusted or insane person is, popping a ranger/ black talon or an fragmenting bullet (mind you fragmenting/exploding bullets are forbidden by every law made by man, but they do exist) in to him will stop him dead in his tracks. The shock alone is enough to stop a normal person in his tracks and the wound caused by these kind of bullets will kill you in worst (or best) case in seconds. And it doesn't even have to be a head shot a hit any where from torso to thighs is enough.

Trying to kill someone with a knife is hard as hell. The actual wital spots for a knife kill are ridiculously small. And if you miss them, it just causes some pain to the assailant. Swords are even worse, you need extensive training to be able to do anything other than stab with them. Wearing any kind of body armor makes it even worse with a blade.

So no melee class/swords/knives/hammers/beavers-on-a-stick/rat flails in ME.

Or if they do implement a insta kill melee attack then it should apply to weapons also. A shotgun blast, a burst from a rifle or a shot from a pistol will and MUST always be more damaging than a knife stab.

Anyone can swing a sword/axe/hammer and do damage with it.Training just gives the swing more chance of connecting to the enemy and not hitting yourself with it.The damage caused by a single full-power hit with any of the above by an avarage person would be enough to kill or incapacitate anyone, even a meth-head.Unfortunately law-enforcement has found out that bullets don't allways do that.Knives are a diffrent animal, i agree, and require substantially more skill for the same damage.Their advantage is concealability and suprise, not damage.Though the actual kill zones depend on if you are a slasher or a stabber.
None of this has any bearing on what i was saying, though.Guns in the modern world with their range advantage ARE wastly superior killing tools even with their shortfalls in most situations and more importantly are force-multipliers.I'm not disputing that.

I implied that, with ME style shields, the nutter WILL get to cqb range with minimum amount of brain usage and skill.At that point your rifle is more of a hinderance than a help and pistols/smgs ,and to some degree shotguns, are useless so long as the attacker still has shields.While bludgeoning the attacker with your weapon is an option it is far less effective than bayonetting him.Especially when said enemy is wearing a full-enclosure helmet.You see, i did not advocate separate weapons but weapons that would be integrated to either the suit (gauntlet blade) or in the weapons (retractable spike bayonet).It would still be one animation but wouldn't be as silly as enemies dropping dead because you elbowed them in the head while they are wearing helmets.

Modifié par Roamingmachine, 18 octobre 2010 - 09:06 .

[Munkerz]

Not really an argument for either side, but a quick three point observation.



1. Considering how shields are targeted mass effect fields that trigger to block or slow incoming object travelling at fast speeds, IE the slug launched by a gun, a knife would probably travel too slow for the shields to be effective. Otherwise patting a soldier on the back would knock you away.



2. But, most, if not all armour has enough coverage over the obvious vital spots (stomach and neck or example). I imagine even the non-plated spots to be strong enough to stop a knife. The codex entry for a newer knife almost defeats this point though.



3. And then there's the issue of closing the distance between the knife wielder and their target. It's possible to charge a target in ME, but to make several attempts its near enough suicide. Or at least very draining on medi-gel. Unless we see more focused cover, and even stealth mechanics, I see this being a real issue.

[Tempest]

Munkerz wrote...

Not really an argument for either side, but a quick three point observation.

1. Considering how shields are targeted mass effect fields that trigger to block or slow incoming object travelling at fast speeds, IE the slug launched by a gun, a knife would probably travel too slow for the shields to be effective. Otherwise patting a soldier on the back would knock you away.

2. But, most, if not all armour has enough coverage over the obvious vital spots (stomach and neck or example). I imagine even the non-plated spots to be strong enough to stop a knife. The codex entry for a newer knife almost defeats this point though.

3. And then there's the issue of closing the distance between the knife wielder and their target. It's possible to charge a target in ME, but to make several attempts its near enough suicide. Or at least very draining on medi-gel. Unless we see more focused cover, and even stealth mechanics, I see this being a real issue.

That is what I said earlier in a way.  The classes that can best utilize a knife are Infiltrators and Vanguards.  A knife ability would be another type of weapon exclusion in the same fashion that not all classes have all weapons.  Soldier, engineer, Adept, and Sentilel in their current form would not benefit in anyway using a knife.

An Infiltrator could knife from stealth.  A vanguard could become a skilled knife wielder when he closes in on his enemies, especially after a burst.

[Sidewinder_617]

Tempest wrote...

Munkerz wrote...

Not really an argument for either side, but a quick three point observation.

1. Considering how shields are targeted mass effect fields that trigger to block or slow incoming object travelling at fast speeds, IE the slug launched by a gun, a knife would probably travel too slow for the shields to be effective. Otherwise patting a soldier on the back would knock you away.

2. But, most, if not all armour has enough coverage over the obvious vital spots (stomach and neck or example). I imagine even the non-plated spots to be strong enough to stop a knife. The codex entry for a newer knife almost defeats this point though.

3. And then there's the issue of closing the distance between the knife wielder and their target. It's possible to charge a target in ME, but to make several attempts its near enough suicide. Or at least very draining on medi-gel. Unless we see more focused cover, and even stealth mechanics, I see this being a real issue.

That is what I said earlier in a way.  The classes that can best utilize a knife are Infiltrators and Vanguards.  A knife ability would be another type of weapon exclusion in the same fashion that not all classes have all weapons.  Soldier, engineer, Adept, and Sentilel in their current form would not benefit in anyway using a knife.

An Infiltrator could knife from stealth.  A vanguard could become a skilled knife wielder when he closes in on his enemies, especially after a burst.

valid point but why should melee be restricted when it could help non combat-oriented classes stand up
to more hazardous situation?

[Gleym]

You could ask the same about things like Ammo Powers or whatever else in that regard.

[RavenholmeCP42]

Also, knives would be absolutely useless against foes in powered armour (You know, most of them), and actually getting a knife strike on the weak areas (Neck seals, joints in the armour etc) would be actually very nearly impossible in combat, whilst getting a fatal strike would be even closer to impossible.

Modifié par RavenholmeCP42, 27 octobre 2010 - 03:15 .

[Gleym]

I love it when people state their opinions as facts despite there being actual FACTS in the game that state the existence of knives capable of penetrating armor.

[Sidewinder_617]

Gleym wrote...

I love it when people state their opinions as facts despite there being actual FACTS in the game that state the existence of knives capable of penetrating armor.

thank you. also why everybody keep making real-life comparisons here?
THIS. IS. SCIFI. it doesnt need to make PERFECT sense and kinetic weapons won't just
vanish off the map anyway; ANY armor has its weakness (like joints. or head-
bash a guy's visor in, he wont be standing upright afterward.)

Modifié par Sidewinder_617, 28 octobre 2010 - 02:47 .

[The Spamming Troll]

a knife????



you want a tiny little knife?



if bioware implements a knife, i hope they implement weapons that dont need 3 clips to kill a verrin then as well. bioware isnt going to improve melee combat. this isnt a melee game. its a cover based shooter with abilities you mostly use at range.



instead of knifes, how about weapons that belong in a sci fi game, not ones that my neigbor used to shoot a deer with yesterday. isnt it 2147? im not a caveman with a spear here.

[Sidewinder_617]

okay i had enough of no-faith- in-melee-at-all-costs.
here's an idea for a new melee system:
hit F once to hit a target like you always do
hit F twice or more to start a chain.
connect enough hits, and shepard will start preforming takedowns
(c'mon, i DARE you to say punching a batarian's lights out
or snapping a husk in half doesn't sound awesome).
hold F to unleash an AOE attack (slashes and the like). good against husk rush.
in the weapons selection, you can equip different blades
granting you bonuses in melee or otherwise,
like an ME blade generating a massive push field
or trapping target in massless state, or immolated blades (incindiery) and the like.

one more use blades might have could be to counter. not just melee attacks
but also tech and biotic attacks. warp REJECTED!

and if you REALLY don't like tactical knives, how about BAYONETS you can attach
to your weapons? turn your katana into a SCYTHE!... hey next shotgun should be called scythe.
they can have all the aformentioned traits.
i'm really hoping melee gets upgraded for ME3. there isn't much else to tackle.

one last thing: people keep saying "if you don't use just weapons your'e not playin' right"
well now read this; sometimes you dont have enough ammo. sometimes you want to spare it for later.
and sometimes you want to take a bunch of high tech mercs and show them just how useless
they are without guns. for whatever reason-ANY reason-you'll want to do something else other then
simply shooting from start to finish.

why can't we?
why should that be wrong?

Modifié par Sidewinder_617, 01 novembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[Gleym]

Because the people who say no are a buncha shooter nuts, Sidewinder, I thought this thread had made that fairly self-evident by now. As far as they're concerned, you could remove dialogue options altogether and just make it a third/first-first person shooter that allowed you to customize your armor like Halo and they'd hail it as an improvement.

[deleted]

We need feedback from actual soldiers or special operatives who've actually seen commando combat like the type Shepard engages in daily and ask THEM if they use a knife or any such weapon at all.



I think the melee system is sufficient for the player's needs. With all the shields, biotic powers and advanced armor melee combat is difficult to implement realistically anyway.

[The_11thDoctor]

I brought this topic up when ME1 was out. I still want swords and knifes. I always play vanguard. I always have a shot gun too so Im always up close. I get in, I kill, I move on. Im the in your face type of class. If your fighting at a distance, your playing the game wrong or using biotics. If you read the novels, Knifes are VERY useful. They pierce thru armor at close range and are more effective than guns at close quarters. They even are used at a range to do throw attacks. Not every enemy is a sentinal so not everyone can be protected against them. I vote blades in ME3.

[Gleym]

deleted wrote...

I think the melee system is sufficient for the player's needs. With all the shields, biotic powers and advanced armor melee combat is difficult to implement realistically anyway.

Seriously, does nobody freaking read the Codex? Shields don't block slow-moving objects like knives, only fast-moving projectiles, and there are already molecular blades capable of piercing a krogan's armor.

[The_11thDoctor]

Gleym wrote...

deleted wrote...

I think the melee system is sufficient for the player's needs. With all the shields, biotic powers and advanced armor melee combat is difficult to implement realistically anyway.

Seriously, does nobody freaking read the Codex? Shields don't block slow-moving objects like knives, only fast-moving projectiles, and there are already molecular blades capable of piercing a krogan's armor.

Of course not. They are ignorant. That and they dont read the novels either. That is why there is so much hate to this subject. They are uneducated on the subject and taking their lack of knowledge as fact. I wish you could have only the Vanguard players and people who READ things partaining to ME give their opinions, but this is the internet after all...

[The_11thDoctor]

They even teased us with putting a sword on the wall at Samara's daughter's house and we couldn't take it... Maker's breath was that annoying...

What's with all this realistic nonsense in a Sci Fi game? It just has to be plausable. And in the ME universe, Knifes and swords WORK. In fact most of the best fighters in ME use knifes! Assassins use them, Mercs use them, soldiers use them! Why does it magically not realistically work in a Universe it works in?! Just because the game hasnt been able to impliment it yet, doesnt mean it's not possible or it shouldnt happen. They may not have found a great style to add them in yet and make them look cool. Zaeed should have been someone that used them. Thane should have used them, weither he needed to or not...

Modifié par aang001, 04 novembre 2010 - 10:19 .

[Gleym]

Hell, Zaeed even carries a knife himself. So does Tali.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

 :mellow:the hell?

[Sidewinder_617]

aang001 wrote...

I brought this topic up when ME1 was out. I still want swords and knifes. I always play vanguard. I always have a shot gun too so Im always up close. I get in, I kill, I move on. Im the in your face type of class. If your fighting at a distance, your playing the game wrong or using biotics. If you read the novels, Knifes are VERY useful. They pierce thru armor at close range and are more effective than guns at close quarters. They even are used at a range to do throw attacks. Not every enemy is a sentinal so not everyone can be protected against them. I vote blades in ME3.

like your gumption. not likely you'll see swords in combat, but keep at it.
besides, how about a knife which extends during stabs, adding to the penetration? or anything of the kind?

[nov_pl]

Melee weapons...

Knife? No.

Light Sword? **** yea.



OK but sirsly.

I think melee weapon is a pretty good idea, there were moments I could really use that kind of weapon in game.

[kain2master]

I think melee should really depend on the class your using.
Infiltrators - Knife+Cloak=Stealth kill. Might be good if there's only a few enemies but otherwise useless.
Vanguard - Some kind of powerfist weapon or something similar to a Sedgley Fist Gun.

Modifié par kain2master, 06 novembre 2010 - 11:14 .

[Ragnarok521]

kain2master wrote...

Vanguard - Some kind of powerfist weapon.

Biotic punch?

[kain2master]

Ragnarok521 wrote...

kain2master wrote...

Vanguard - Some kind of powerfist weapon.

Biotic punch?

ok, that could work too. 

Modifié par kain2master, 06 novembre 2010 - 11:28 .

[Sidewinder_617]

like biotic punches, but i still think we need cold weapons of sorts

[Encarmine]

dude I would love melee weapons, chain swords, power axe, power swords, lightnig claws, warhammers.



doing a biotic charge and then decapitating the dude i charged would rock.



but i also understand im not your typical biowear forum dweller, im one of those loathed FPS converts lol