316 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

JohnEpler wrote...

Hey! People can have opinions that aren't yours!

Is that an opinion? IF IT IS, I'LL HAVE YOU TO INSULT IT.

[2papercuts]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Morrigans God son wrote...
How much you willing to bet?

Depends. The playerbase or just you? You've already made up your mind, going everywhere insulting DA2 and even hating DA2 on your profile. However, I feel the overall playerbase would want to keep Hawke.

i didn't like the change to hawke and im not sure if i would be angry if they change the character again

mainly though, i just hate when you run into a character you already know but since hawke doesn't know the character you have to say something stupid

for example you meet flemeth

i say: didn't i already kill you

Hawke says; your dangerous, stay away

although i doubt that will happen excactly

[SoleSong]

About being disapointed or not about not using the warden as the main person in DA2... I think I will side 51%, mybe more, with those disapointed.
Why?
A good advice when writing a story is to introduse the hero at the beginning, so the reader dont have to first identify with one person, then switch to the real hero.
This is what bioware is doing . We have put oure souls into a hero and now we have to change to a new one.
Unless the story grab us hot from the beginning, an in all way good history, risk to loose out this way.
It would be ok if it was a real new story, but going from DA1 to DA2 dont do that, at least not in the same way, since DA2 build on DA1.
Because of that I am a bit disapointed since I in a way have to forget my old self and start a new.
One dead... but the life goes on

Modifié par SoleSong, 14 octobre 2010 - 10:47 .

[2papercuts]

double

Modifié par 2papercuts, 14 octobre 2010 - 10:41 .

[Nerevar-as]

Morrigans God son wrote...

rogue_assassin wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

Hi!

Is it only me who are very disappointed that they wont make a DA2 with your Grey Warden instead of this Hawke guy? Sure DA2 can be awesome, but I feel that so many questions are unanswered even after the DLC:s. There are so many more storys to tell about my warden, Morrigan, Leliana.

As I understand DA2 will have a 10 year span and will start during the blight. But I feel that the Witch Hunt DLC have a weird ending. I don't like that characters that have so much more to give just disappear or will be mentioned in a short conversation, or show up in a short cameo role.

Is it only me who feels this way, and what's your thought about this? And DA2?

Just wait until you play it. You came to love your warden because you went through an adventure with him/her, why don't you wait until you do the same with Hawke?

I'll bet there will be a huge thread in a DA3 forum (if one is made) saying "WHAT?! you're not using Hawke? this game is crap!!"

How much you willing to bet?
Even if the game turn out to be great. ( Which I doubt considering what has been realeased so far. ) I'll still want to play as the warden again. EVEN IF DA2 TURNS OUT TO BETTER.

I won´t be surprised at all if Hawke repeats for DA3 because s/he was so popular players wouldn´t accept other PC.
I really hope the character is better written than designed. That armor has so many openings and is trying to scream badass so loud that I can´t take him seriously at all. With some luck it´ll be the equivalent of the female LA from Origins and the others will look like they actually offer protection.

[Herr Uhl]

SoleSong wrote...

About being disapointed or not aboyt not using the warden as the main person in DA2... I think I will side 51%, mybe more, with those disapointed.
Why?
A good advice when writing a story is to introduse the hero at the beginning, so the reader dont have to first identifie with one person, then switch to the real hero.
This is what bioware is doing . We have put oure souls into a hero and now we have to change to a new one.
Unless the story grab us hot from the beginning, an in all way good history, risk to loose out this way.
It would be ok if it was a real new story, but going from DA1 to DA2 dont do that, at least not in the same way, sinse DA2 build on DA1.
Because of that I am a bit disapointed sinse I in a way have to forget my old self and start a new.
One dead... but the life goes on

Well, having one hero that has to go through a lot of games would limit the possible ways to play the game that would be feasible.

[arathor_87]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...
Yes but now that our Warden is familiar I have zero interest in playing a supposed SEQUEL as some unknown Hawke. It's not a sequel, its a entirely different game and it should marketed as such.

Oh dear.  Someone alert the video game industry.  KOTOR 2, NWN 2, the subsequent Fallout games...these can no longer be classified as sequels.  Starcraft: Brood War features a different silent protagonist than the silent protagonist of the original Starcraft--apparently it's an entirely different game though it requires the original to play.  And hey, for all those whose wardens died and started playing a brand-new protagonist in Awakening?  Apparently you've been playing an entirely different game too!  Who knew?  (Glibness aside, few games allow you to import a protagonist--or even decisions--from one game to the next.  I think we're just spoilt for choice given BioWare's games that do allow import--BG, ME, etc.)

arathor_87 wrote...

Well, you don't see the whole picture here. Even if you didn't shag Morrigan in the DA:O they said that Morrigan will play a big part in DA., and either way she got the child, and since the Witch Hunt DLC is a bridge to the future for DA we can most likely expect that the child will have impact on the future, and Flemeth to of course. And because this is the bridge it would be weird to trash the warden for all future, for those who played the original Warden or those who choose the orlesian one.

So those who choose to shag Morrigan and who is the father wont get answers with his warden after this DLC and the other wardens wont get it either, And since the warden in some way have a connection to Morrigan it would be weird to throw him away for good after her statement, why would he give up? And if you don't want to play him, if he returns, no one will force you. I'm sure a game like that would have several options to choose from the beginning, so you not would be forced to play your old warden if you didn't want too..

I think you're missing In Exile's point.  Yes, Morrigan and Flemeth are important to the story as a whole, but you're looking at it through the lens of someone who played a Warden who was personally tied to Morrigan's story.  Many players chose this route, but not every player did.  What about other players who hated Morrigan, ignored her, turned down the ritual, and never thought anything more of it?  What about the players whose Wardens were happy to just let her leave in peace?  What about players whose Wardens are dead as a doornail?

As for the option of either playing as your Warden or not, that runs into all sorts of design issues, both mechanical and roleplaying.  BioWare would have to support three possibilities: importing a Warden without playing him/her, starting a new character from scratch, and importing a Warden for play.  There would have to be some McGuffin to explain why a) the Warden sucks all of a sudden or why the new character is equally badass as someone who defeated the Blight.  From a roleplaying perspective, the problem is that the Warden brings to the table all sorts of world-changing backstory, relationship baggage, etc.  that BioWare would have to accommodate, far beyond the scope of origins.  It would be like playing Origins, except with thousands and thousands of origin stories instead of just six.  The Warden is just too open-ended of a character, unlike, say, Revan or Shepard.

Finally, you're acting as though Morrigan's child is canonical.  It's not.  For those who denied her the Dark Ritual and never romanced her, it never happened.  PERIOD.  The only way to continue a core storyline into DA2 using Morrigan as the crux of the story is to canonize one of the most critical decisions in the game.  I'm sure more people would be pissed about that than having to play a new protagonist.

Nvm, I don't think you understand what I mean. And don't you remember the scene where you reject Morrigan ritual, and she transforms into a wolf and run away. I'm sure she found another way to get the baby. And I think that we will see the baby in the future in some way. So its a crap ending for the warden.

And you can't deny what Morrigans said, even if your original character died in DA.O you could create an orlesian one in The Awakening. And I doubt that a warden with the taint can live in peace forever. There is solutions for evertything. But I respect your point of view, but I keep mine. I don't think we will get further in this discussion and I suggest a moderator to lock this thread, because its not about Dragon Age 2 anymore! : )

And btw, some of you didn't think it was David Gaider who wrote Witch Hunt, but it was! I didn't think that either, since the story was not as good comparing to his other work! 

[SoleSong]

I am interested in to find out how my new reincarnation... since I am in a way dead :-), work out.

[Morroian]

arathor_87 wrote...

Nvm, I don't think you understand what I mean. And don't you remember the scene where you reject Morrigan ritual, and she transforms into a wolf and run away. I'm sure she found another way to get the baby. And I think that we will see the baby in the future in some way. So its a crap ending for the warden.

Gaider has said that doesn't happen. The OGB is not canon.

[Sable Rhapsody]

SoleSong wrote...

About being disapointed or not about not using the warden as the main person in DA2... I think I will side 51%, mybe more, with those disapointed.
Why?
A good advice when writing a story is to introduse the hero at the beginning, so the reader dont have to first identify with one person, then switch to the real hero.
This is what bioware is doing . We have put oure souls into a hero and now we have to change to a new one.
Unless the story grab us hot from the beginning, an in all way good history, risk to loose out this way.
It would be ok if it was a real new story, but going from DA1 to DA2 dont do that, at least not in the same way, since DA2 build on DA1.
Because of that I am a bit disapointed since I in a way have to forget my old self and start a new.
One dead... but the life goes on

There are multiple heroes possible within the same setting.  That's like saying the Star Wars EU should never be about anyone other than Luke Skywalker (though he's gotten plenty of love as it is.)

Also, DA2 can be built on DA:O and still be a new story.  Going back to Star Wars--everything in the Star Wars EU is connected in some way.  TOR is built off the story of KOTOR, but it seems pretty much like a new story to me.  Personally, I tend to think of DA:O as akin to A Song of Ice and Fire, where you don't have one protagonist but rather an ensemble cast of characters who all shape the world in their own ways.  I tend to think of Mass Effect more like the Harry Potter series, where the whole schtick revolves around one protagonist.  Both are valid forms of storytelling.

[Herr Uhl]

Morroian wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

Nvm, I don't think you understand what I mean. And don't you remember the scene where you reject Morrigan ritual, and she transforms into a wolf and run away. I'm sure she found another way to get the baby. And I think that we will see the baby in the future in some way. So its a crap ending for the warden.

Gaider has said that doesn't happen. The OGB is not canon.

And the Warden, Alistar or Loghain dying would be one hell of a placebo in that case.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Morroian wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

Nvm, I don't think you understand what I mean. And don't you remember the scene where you reject Morrigan ritual, and she transforms into a wolf and run away. I'm sure she found another way to get the baby. And I think that we will see the baby in the future in some way. So its a crap ending for the warden.

Gaider has said that doesn't happen. The OGB is not canon.

And if it was canon, I'd be royally pissed.  Intensely pissed.  Even though I did the ritual.  It's akin to placing Alistair on the throne, and then the game saying "Hey, never mind, Anora assassinated him and ended up on the throne anyway no matter what you did!"  The Dark Ritual is one of the most important decisions in DA:O.  Taking that agency from the player is extremely bad in a roleplaying game.  It would be one thing if the choice was never offered in the first place (like working for Cerberus in ME2).  It would be another thing entirely if the choice was offered to you, then retconned so it had no meaning.  

Also, as for what Morrigan says in Witch Hunt, you're assuming the events of Witch Hunt occur whether you downloaded the damn DLC or not.  I am not disputing Morrigan's role in the future story.  What I am disputing is this notion that Morrigan's story plays out more or less the same for everyone regardless of what their Warden actually did in-game.  Saying that Witch Hunt happens regardless of whether I played it is like saying the DR happened regardless of what I actually did.  It robs the player of agency, and that's decidedly not cool.

[rogue_assassin]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Morrigans God son wrote...
How much you willing to bet?

Depends. The playerbase or just you? You've already made up your mind, going everywhere insulting DA2 and even hating DA2 on your profile. However, I feel the overall playerbase would want to keep Hawke.

This was my point, yes, thank you Dave

Modifié par rogue_assassin, 14 octobre 2010 - 11:00 .

[SoleSong]

I have been thinking... (I do that from time to time).
Because there is many endings in DA1, I for one did not (my etical choise) go to the witch hut to end Morrigans mother... and BioWare can not build my choise into the game DA2.
Because of that (and some small other things) I dont speculate too much about who was doing what in DA1 anymore.
For me DA2 is a whole new game... in this way I make null and nought og my 51% disapointment and start afresh :-)

Modifié par SoleSong, 14 octobre 2010 - 11:03 .

[Herr Uhl]

SoleSong wrote...

I have been thinking... (I do thet from time to time).
Because there is many endings in DA1, I for one did not (my etical choise) go to the witch hut to end Morrigans mother... and BioWare can not build my choise into the game DA2.
Because of that (and som small other things) I dont speculate too much about who was doing what in DA1 anymore.
For me DA2 is a whole new game... in this way I make null and nought og my 51% disapointment and start afresh :-)

The destruction of Lothering happens before you can kill Flemeth.

[SoleSong]

Herr Uhl... it does not change my point about looking on DA2 as a new game with some feathers from DA1

[Morrigans God son]

Bratt1204 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...
Of course you're not the only one - this is the reason I have no interest what-so-ever, in DA:2 

Were those voicing these views so apathetic towards Origins before it came out because the protagonist was new to them, then?

Color me confused by the whole mindset, honestly.  

Well, except for those who upon reflection decide to re-state their arguments as being more about how profoundly unsatisfied they were with the Warden's story as told through DA:O and it's expansion/DLC and less to do with Hawke or the concept of a new protagonist.  That I can understand.

Yes but now that our Warden is familiar I have zero interest in playing a supposed SEQUEL as some unknown Hawke. It's not a sequel, its a entirely different game and it should marketed as such.

T-H-I-S     T-H-I-S      T-H-I-S
Well said.

[Dave of Canada]

Bratt1204 wrote...

Yes but now that our Warden is familiar I have zero interest in playing a supposed SEQUEL as some unknown Hawke. It's not a sequel, its a entirely different game and it should marketed as such.

You mean you've never played a sequel with an entirely different character? 

Castlevania, Assassin's Creed (debatable), Fable, ect.

[Brockololly]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
The Dark Ritual is one of the most important decisions in DA:O.  Taking that agency from the player is extremely bad in a roleplaying game.  It would be one thing if the choice was never offered in the first place (like working for Cerberus in ME2).  It would be another thing entirely if the choice was offered to you, then retconned so it had no meaning. 

That cuts both ways with the DR/US ending. Sure, the US Wardens want their sacrifice to matter- great. They can stay dead. The issue is that for those that did the DR, I want that choice to matter and effect the world too, not just in some weak cameo or codex entry. So yes, if you did the DR it should drastically affect the future of "your" version of Thedas- and the DR isn't just having the Old God Baby, its also the fact that your Wardens survive. To have the DR really seem like anything significant, they need to address both of those points in the future, IMO.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Also, as for what Morrigan says in Witch Hunt, you're assuming the events of Witch Hunt occur whether you downloaded the damn DLC or not.  I am not disputing Morrigan's role in the future story.  What I am disputing is this notion that Morrigan's story plays out more or less the same for everyone regardless of what their Warden actually did in-game.  Saying that Witch Hunt happens regardless of whether I played it is like saying the DR happened regardless of what I actually did.  It robs the player of agency, and that's decidedly not cool.

Thats the problem with the DLC though- its no different than somebody who didn't play Origins buying DA2 and compaining that they were robbed of agency by not being able to set the world state. I'd guess if you don't have WH and the decision at the end plays a role in the future, there will be some default choice set for you by BioWare. You want to determine if you go through the Eluvian with Morrigan, stay behind or stab her? Buy the DLC.

[tbsking]

Why can't those players who did the US import an Orlesian Warden? Or a Golems Warden? Or a Witch Hunt Warden? Or make a new character?



My Warden is still alive and kicking and I much prefer him to any new character, especially a character that's going to limit my ability to roleplay.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Brockololly wrote...

Thats the problem with the DLC though- its no different than somebody who didn't play Origins buying DA2 and compaining that they were robbed of agency by not being able to set the world state. I'd guess if you don't have WH and the decision at the end plays a role in the future, there will be some default choice set for you by BioWare. You want to determine if you go through the Eluvian with Morrigan, stay behind or stab her? Buy the DLC.

That's a good point.  And yes, you're completely right--I'm sure the game will just set whatever it wants to default.  Which I suppose in my game means Morrigan would go through the Eluvian alone.  Yay.  BioWare do have a history of wanting to reward players who take the time, effort, and money to play through the first game, then import to the second.

It just feels to me like the complaints about the incompleteness of the Warden's story center specifically around Morrigan, an NPC whose importance and personal contribution to the story vary wildly from Warden to Warden.  Morrigan was less important to me than, say, Alistair.  Or the Architect, who really did a mind-screw on my poor Warden.  For some Wardens, she was the most important person in the game.  Others hated her and would like nothing better than to drop her down an mine shaft filled with devouring destroyosaurs.  Focusing on that one character and claiming that the story is incomplete is somewhat unrealistic, I think.

tbsking wrote...

Why can't those players who did the US import an Orlesian Warden? Or a Golems Warden? Or a Witch Hunt Warden? Or make a new character?

My Warden is still alive and kicking and I much prefer him to any new character, especially a character that's going to limit my ability to roleplay.

So when BioWare releases an new IP, we'll all be clamoring to play our Warden there too, apparently. 

When most people talk about the Warden, they're talking about THE WARDEN who defeated the Blight, not the many auxiliary protagonists you can make for the expansions and DLCs.  And honestly, how many people made separate Wardens for DA:O, DA:A, Witch Hunt, and golems?  My bet is that most people imported their original Wardens.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 14 octobre 2010 - 11:44 .

[Dave of Canada]

tbsking wrote...

Why can't those players who did the US import an Orlesian Warden? Or a Golems Warden? Or a Witch Hunt Warden? Or make a new character?

Because it doesn't keep track of our decisions?

[Nerevar-as]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...

Yes but now that our Warden is familiar I have zero interest in playing a supposed SEQUEL as some unknown Hawke. It's not a sequel, its a entirely different game and it should marketed as such.

You mean you've never played a sequel with an entirely different character? 

Castlevania, Assassin's Creed (debatable), Fable, ect.

AC and Fable take place way after the originals. Castlevania and Resident Evil rotate main characters, something I don´t think will happen here. The problem is that there´s an overarching plot, and the GW can be tied tight to one of the main players. It probably won´t matter in DA2, but when the final Flemeth-Morrigan-whoever else moment comes, the GW should be more than a background note, especially if s/he had a good relationship with Morrigan and if OG (not necessarily OGB) are involved.
It´s likely Hawke will also have equivalent reasons to these.

[Xewaka]

Why do people keep whining the sequel swaps the protagonist? It doesn't.

The protagonist here is Thedas. The world. Which you get to experience through many different perspectives.

EDIT: Also...

Ticladesign wrote...

Neverwinter
Nights is only mediocre if you havent looked any further than the
Campaign. And even that I question, the nwn campaign was pretty decent.
But I didnt spent much time in it.. For me it was the Toolset, custom
modules and Persistent Worlds. basically, what nwn was designed for: a
computer version of D&D with a DM client. The campaign was just one
part of it, and not the full experience.

NWN was, and is an Unique game with it's user friendly toolset and
DM client.

I couldn't make heads or tails of NWN campaign - more precisely, I couldn't be bothered to care. The companions were uninspired and boring. As for the toolset, I rather keep playing tabletop with my friends for that experience. When I fire up a computer RPG, I want to explore an interesting story, interesting characters, and an interesting world. Other people would get in the way.

Modifié par Xewaka, 14 octobre 2010 - 11:54 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Nerevar-as wrote...

AC and Fable take place way after the originals. Castlevania and Resident Evil rotate main characters, something I don´t think will happen here. The problem is that there´s an overarching plot, and the GW can be tied tight to one of the main players. It probably won´t matter in DA2, but when the final Flemeth-Morrigan-whoever else moment comes, the GW should be more than a background note, especially if s/he had a good relationship with Morrigan and if OG (not necessarily OGB) are involved.
It´s likely Hawke will also have equivalent reasons to these.

OK, so what about the KOTOR games?  Or NWN?

The thing is that the Grey Warden CAN be tightly tied to Morrigan.  The Grey Warden does not have to be.  Let's say for argument's sake that the Grey Warden can be imported to DA2.

For the Grey Warden who romanced or befriended Morrigan, did Witch Hunt, and did the Dark Ritual?  Great.
For the Grey Warden who hated/were indifferent to Morrigan, denied her the ritual, and did not do witch hunt?  HUH?  What's that guy doing there?

Basing the decision of whether a protagonist should be carried into a second game off of the protagonist's relationship to one very specific NPC and one very specific story arc is a terrible idea.  I understand Morrigan's story is not yet resolved.  I understand it's a loose end for a lot of players.  An acceptable way of dealing with it might be additional DLC for DA2, in which you could possibly play the Warden dealing with the fallout from Morrigan and Flemeth.  But structuring an entire sequel around one set of story hooks that only have relevance for certain protagonists is patently ridiculous.  It'd be like making ME3 all about Tali (though I doubt her fans would complain.  Meh.)