316 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Majin Paul wrote...
@Upsettingshorts: Just because the blights were far apart previously doesn't mean they won't be in the next game. I've not read the codex for a while but weren't the first few blights more frequent than the last few? I don't think anything was said about blights being a fixed length apart.

That's a fair point, but unless the writers decide to have another game feature a Blight or some aftershock-type event like Awakenings, it stands to reason that Grey Wardens wont be terribly important in future Bioware games.

[DMC12]

Morrigans God son wrote...

I am the boss, and what I say goes.
DA2 blows.
Goodnight everybody, drive home safely.

Silly lad... Tony Danza's the boss. *pat* *pat*

[upsettingshorts]

What about Bruce Springsteen?

[UberDuber]

I was so looking forward to bossing Anora about in DA2, if we continuated as the Warden. NO! Why Hawke why!?

What about me and Alistair? What about me and Zevran? What about me and Morrigan? Leliana? I wanted a new greater evil for my warden to face! I've no interest in Hawke's story. Wait who's Hawke? Meh...goes back to lurking.

[Majin Paul]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Majin Paul wrote...
@Upsettingshorts: Just because the blights were far apart previously doesn't mean they won't be in the next game. I've not read the codex for a while but weren't the first few blights more frequent than the last few? I don't think anything was said about blights being a fixed length apart.

That's a fair point, but unless the writers decide to have another game feature a Blight or some aftershock-type event like Awakenings, it stands to reason that Grey Wardens wont be terribly important in future Bioware games.

Eh, the odds are against it if you go off the blight history, but the fact is that if they wanted the last game, whether it be the next game or ten games away, to be epic, the blight would be the way to go as it's essentially the end of the world threat.
Plus the dark ritual result may affect how the remaining archdemons.

[Wulfram]

I have a theory that the relatively short duration of the 5th blight means the 6th blight will turn up fairly quickly. The long period between the 4th and 5th blights has been attributed to Garahel killing so many darkspawn in the 4th, but since the 5th blight was over before it really started there's probably a whole load of darkspawn still in the deep roads.

[upsettingshorts]

I had no interest in the Grey Warden's story prior to DA:O, either. Such a flawed premise on which to base an evaluation of DA:2.

Upon which to criticize DA:O Awakenings and Witch Hunt? By all means go right ahead, it would actually make sense when applied there.  If your Warden is still alive and kicking by the end and you feel the story is unfinished, that's perfectly fair.  But judging Hawke and the idea of a game based on him as uninteresting because it's not the Warden is not fair, it's just being bitter.

Yes, bitter.  As in resentful that the story of the Warden was not resolved to your satisfaction, leading to cynical prejudice against the new character.

Majin Paul wrote...
Eh, the odds are against it if you go off the blight history, but the fact is that if they wanted the last game, whether it be the next game or ten games away, to be epic, the blight would be the way to go as it's essentially the end of the world threat.
Plus the dark ritual result may affect how the remaining archdemons.

Yeah, I really only commented on the idea that Grey Wardens are of monumental importance to the world of Dragon Age. The answer is - basically - not necessarily.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 octobre 2010 - 10:55 .

[Majin Paul]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I had no interest in the Grey Warden's story prior to DA:O, either. Such a flawed premise on which to base an evaluation of DA:2.

Upon which to criticize DA:O Awakenings and Witch Hunt? By all means go right ahead, it would actually make sense when applied there.  If your Warden is still alive and kicking by the end and you feel the story is unfinished, that's perfectly fair.  But judging Hawke and the idea of a game based on him as uninteresting because it's not the Warden is not fair, it's just being bitter.

Majin Paul wrote...
Eh, the odds are against it if you go off the blight history, but the fact is that if they wanted the last game, whether it be the next game or ten games away, to be epic, the blight would be the way to go as it's essentially the end of the world threat.
Plus the dark ritual result may affect how the remaining archdemons.

Yeah, I really only commented on the idea that Grey Wardens are of monumental importance to the world of Dragon Age. The answer is - basically - not necessarily.

We've only seen the Grey Wardens role in Ferelden at this point (unless they're shown outside Ferelden in Awakening, not played it) and considering they were banished, so they may well not have much importance most of the time, but when they are of importance (blights) they're probably the group of most importance which is why if there's another blight in the games, the grey wardens will be back, if not controllable.

[arathor_87]

Majin Paul wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

Majin Paul wrote...

I'd be surprised if they ddin't use the grey wardens in future games since they are so important to Dragon Age, the only reason your own grey warden not being used would be if the next game were set a certain amount of time in the future.
Saying that, I wasn't really bothered when they said you wouldn't be using your grey warden from the first game, mines story was pretty complete. (Haven't played the Witch hunt DLC though.

Don't play it! : ) hehe

One of the reasons I haven't played it is because of mixed opinions, is it that bad?

@Upsettingshorts: Just because the blights were far apart previously doesn't mean they won't be in the next game. I've not read the codex for a while but weren't the first few blights more frequent than the last few? I don't think anything was said about blights being a fixed length apart.

Well, the Warden do more than defeathing the blight. Morrigan tells you that Flemeth played a bigger part in the Blight than you realized, and since Flemeth is alive I don't think the wardens misson is over, it would be in the Wardens interest to find out if Flemeth is the source, or which part she has in all this. Thats why I want to play the warden again. And If you say my warden is dead and I didn't play the Witch Hunt, don't you think the Wardens will get the news  in some way about Flemeth playing a bigger part than they realized? Then they have to act, and just don't vanish. Do you undestand what I mean? And for those who doesn't want to play their old warden, he ain' the only warden in the world. 

But I also want to play Hawke, and maybe its good that they build up another story, because it wouldn't be fun if the threat came directly after the bligh beacue it takes time to plan world dominance or a new Blight: Maybe DA2 is about a qunari invasion and the the templars, since Hawkes father was an apostate. I hope for this, and for the Warden to come back some time in the future!  Do you undestand the way I think now? 

*EDIT* Used the wrong quote, but I hope you understand!

Modifié par arathor_87, 15 octobre 2010 - 11:11 .

[arathor_87]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

What about Bruce Springsteen?

 

That was pretty funny!  haha

Maybe he will play a part in the DA!

Modifié par arathor_87, 15 octobre 2010 - 11:03 .

[Nerevar-as]

Brockololly wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Generally speaking, my point is that Morrigan should not be the ONLY reason why the Warden returns as a protagonist, if she/he does in future installments.  But like you said, it's a moot point for DA2.

Definitely- my dream scenario would be that we see more of Flemeth's side of things in DA2, then come DA3, have both Hawke and the Warden return as PCs. So you have the narrative switching back and forth between the 2 and you can deal with Flemeth/Morrigan/Old God baby/ and  the big "Change" however you like. It would be an interesting change of pace having multiple PCs  though, if nothing else.

Dream on. I will too.

I would be surprised is the main plot of the games doesn´t include Old Gods, so GW would have a reason to be there.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

JohnEpler wrote...

McCreath wrote...

Well, since my warden is currently residing in a spiffy tomb in Weisshaupt, how am I going to play DA2 if I don't get a new hero?

43 hours of staring at the inside of a coffin lid.

Conversation options: 'Decompose' 'Twitch' 'Reanimate'.

It would certainly save on art resources.

If you guys do this I have an awesome idea for a game you might like to work on. It's called Bear Simulator. You play the game as a bear in the wilderness, fishing for food, gathering stuff for hibernation, mauling other bears in fights. Then it all leads up to this awesome boss battle where you go toe to toe with a hunter who wants to make you into a rug.


What do you think?

[In Exile]

arathor_87 wrote...
If your Warden hated Morrigan and turned down the DR or if you're the Orlesian the DLC still gives you reasons- the codex says that the First Warden tasked you to investigate Morrigan and Flemeth's role in the Blight. And its not just the Wardens searching for her, but also the Templars who think she is a dangerous blood mage and the soldiers of the Crown are looking for her too.

You don't get it. My Warden wouldn't give a damn what the First Warden says. Any order addressed would be mailed back with the "Kiss My Arse" stamp. What would the First Warden do? Invade Ferelden to arrest me? That would go over well in terms of winning allies.

This is what you need to understand. My motivations are not yours. The things that are important to your Warden are outright contradictory to the things that are important to mine.

And then when you meet Morrigan as the Orlesian even, she implies that Flemeth had a greater role in the Blight than you even realize. Then she specifically tells the Orlesian to go tell the Wardens to be wary and be on the lookout for the change that is to come. And then of course she leaves the myserious gift to the Warden specifically. Sure its not as deep of a connection as if you romanced Morrigan and went through the Eluvian with her, but it definitely hints that the "change" to come and Flemeth's role in things are things that the Wardens specifically need to be aware of. Maybe they ignore that stuff in the future, but even if you're an Orlesian, WH gives you further reason to think that whenever Morrigan's story continues, the Wardens may be involved.

But this leads to the other problem DA:O has, which is "I  Wardens!!!" As it turns out, my characters don't. At all. So Flemeth having some connection to the Blight? Good on her - someone else's problem. For a few of my Wardens the only goal is to find a way to remove the taint to free themselves from Dunca's forced kindapping and death sentence.

So the Wardens might be involved. Morrigan could go on and do lots of things. But none of this could justify why my character would ever be involved.

Let me try to put it this way.

Let us say the plot of DA2 was trade dispute in Antiva city. The Warden, who has quit the Grey Wardens to become a merchant, has gone of to negotiate trade contracts for various supplies (largely some tasy spices). Enter plot of DA2.

Do you see the problem? Do you see how for what you think your Warden's story is, this plot hook is just nonsense? This is what your plot hook is for most of my Wardens.

[Brockololly]

In Exile wrote..

You don't get it. My Warden wouldn't give a damn what the First Warden says. Any order addressed would be mailed back with the "Kiss My Arse" stamp. What would the First Warden do? Invade Ferelden to arrest me? That would go over well in terms of winning allies.

Well ok, maybe my Warden didn't want to be a Warden in Origins and it was forced on him. Does that mean I stopped playing because "gosh darnit I don't want to have anything to do with the Blight!" No- its called the PLOT- maybe at the end of Origins my Warden wanted to go search for Morrigan right away, but no, if you're going to buy into the BioWare sanctioned DA plot, your Warden went off to Vigil's Keep. If they come up with a reason for the Warden to be involved with Morrigan or Flemeth in the future, it'll be because it will be part of the PLOT.

In Exile wrote..
But this leads to the other problem DA:O has, which is "I  Wardens!!!" As it turns out, my characters don't. At all. So Flemeth having some connection to the Blight? Good on her - someone else's problem. For a few of my Wardens the only goal is to find a way to remove the taint to free themselves from Dunca's forced kindapping and death sentence.

Again, thats all well and good but if down the road BioWare comes up with something such that Flemeth/Morrigan needs to bea dealt with by a Warden, what then? Its like a Warden stomping their feet and saying "NO!  I don't want to defeat the Blight! Hrmphh..." I get what you're saying as I've had Wardens like that too, but IF thats where BioWare were to take the plot, you have to go with it or just not buy the thing. Like I said, many of my Wardens wanted nothing to do with Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep and all that- but thats where BioWare took things.

In Exile wrote..
Let us say the plot of DA2 was trade dispute in Antiva city. The Warden, who has quit the Grey Wardens to become a merchant, has gone of to negotiate trade contracts for various supplies (largely some tasy spices). Enter plot of DA2.

RIght, but in your situation you're not even a Warden anymore. Thats the one characteristic all PCs of Origins/Awakening have in common- they're Wardens whether they like it or not. So presumably, BioWare is only going to bring the Warden back if its a Warden-y thing they need to be doing- unless of course that morphs into spice trading, I don't know.

The very existence of Witch Hunt provides foreshadowing that the Warden's role with Morrigan/Flemeth isn't over, whether you like that or not.

Modifié par Brockololly, 15 octobre 2010 - 02:49 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

In Exile wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...
If your Warden hated Morrigan and turned down the DR or if you're the Orlesian the DLC still gives you reasons- the codex says that the First Warden tasked you to investigate Morrigan and Flemeth's role in the Blight. And its not just the Wardens searching for her, but also the Templars who think she is a dangerous blood mage and the soldiers of the Crown are looking for her too.

You don't get it. My Warden wouldn't give a damn what the First Warden says. Any order addressed would be mailed back with the "Kiss My Arse" stamp. What would the First Warden do? Invade Ferelden to arrest me? That would go over well in terms of winning allies.

This is what you need to understand. My motivations are not yours. The things that are important to your Warden are outright contradictory to the things that are important to mine.

And then when you meet Morrigan as the Orlesian even, she implies that Flemeth had a greater role in the Blight than you even realize. Then she specifically tells the Orlesian to go tell the Wardens to be wary and be on the lookout for the change that is to come. And then of course she leaves the myserious gift to the Warden specifically. Sure its not as deep of a connection as if you romanced Morrigan and went through the Eluvian with her, but it definitely hints that the "change" to come and Flemeth's role in things are things that the Wardens specifically need to be aware of. Maybe they ignore that stuff in the future, but even if you're an Orlesian, WH gives you further reason to think that whenever Morrigan's story continues, the Wardens may be involved.

But this leads to the other problem DA:O has, which is "I  Wardens!!!" As it turns out, my characters don't. At all. So Flemeth having some connection to the Blight? Good on her - someone else's problem. For a few of my Wardens the only goal is to find a way to remove the taint to free themselves from Dunca's forced kindapping and death sentence.

So the Wardens might be involved. Morrigan could go on and do lots of things. But none of this could justify why my character would ever be involved.

Let me try to put it this way.

Let us say the plot of DA2 was trade dispute in Antiva city. The Warden, who has quit the Grey Wardens to become a merchant, has gone of to negotiate trade contracts for various supplies (largely some tasy spices). Enter plot of DA2.

Do you see the problem? Do you see how for what you think your Warden's story is, this plot hook is just nonsense? This is what your plot hook is for most of my Wardens.

But I thought you were one of the proponents that your Warden's story is not your own InExile? Why should you care if you warden wants to investigate or not? Or have you changed your mind in this instance because its convenient to support your argument?

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...

Well ok, maybe my Warden didn't want to be a Warden in Origins and it was forced on him. Does that mean I stopped playing because "gosh darnit I don't want to have anything to do with the Blight!" No- its called the PLOT- maybe at the end of Origins my Warden wanted to go search for Morrigan right away, but no, if you're going to buy into the BioWare sanctioned DA plot, your Warden went off to Vigil's Keep.

To begin with, we knew that DA:O from the start would be about stopping the blight (in terms of creating the character). More importantly, my Warden didn't want to be a Warden in Origins either, and that worked just fine with the whole plot. Not wanting to be a Warden is not the same as holding the idiot ball and not wanting to be a hero, and generally seeing the value in what Flemeth said about needing to stop the Blight.

The problem with PLOT is that it destroys my character. We can have PLOT when it is a new game - when I am being supplied with motivation. If you want to create a sequel and let me import a character, it isn't PLOT when you tell me what my motivation was. It is railroading, because I already had another motivation in the previous game that worked.

If they come up with a reason for the Warden to be involved with Morrigan or Flemeth in the future, it'll be because it will be part of the PLOT.

And it will take a ****** on my character. We talked about this before - but how would you feel if Bioware just said the Warden died going through the mirror, or was murdered right after backing away from it, and Hawke meets a villain who is drinking wine out of the Warden's skull? Pretty bad, no? But it's PLOT, so you should be grateful for the opportunity to experience it, by your standard.

Again, thats all well and good but if down the road BioWare comes up with something such that Flemeth/Morrigan needs to bea dealt with by a Warden, what then? Its like a Warden stomping their feet and saying "NO!  I don't want to defeat the Blight! Hrmphh..."

Not at all. Once again - there is a fundamental difference between the plot of the original game (where we create our character) and the plot of the sequel. I get you really, really want a Morrigan and Grey Warden (the organization, not the character) centered plot.

But you have to appreciate how this breaks characters for people, so just arguing that Bioware is not doing the Warden justice by not making a sequel for that character is selfish, because it ignores every choice except your favourite.

I get what you're saying as I've had Wardens like that too, but IF thats where BioWare were to take the plot, you have to go with it or just not buy the thing. Like I said, many of my Wardens wanted nothing to do with Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep and all that- but thats where BioWare took things.

This is, again, a non-argument.

This thread is about dissapointment over the absence of the Warden in sequels. I am pointing out that wanting the Warden in a sequel to close up your personal loose end is very selfish; because closing your personal loose end is taking a dump on my personal loose ends.

Why are you entitled to a game and I am not? 

RIght, but in your situation you're not even a Warden anymore. Thats the one characteristic all PCs of Origins/Awakening have in common- they're Wardens whether they like it or not.

Except that it isn't at all. The game can insist as hard as it likes that I should give a **** about the Wardens and being one, or consider myself one, but it can't make me do that, and Origins most certainly allows you to end the game by moving on with your life.

The only thing that PCs have in common is that they stopped the blight. The motivations for doing so, and their relationship with the Wardens, is unknowable.

The very existence of Witch Hunt provides foreshadowing that the Warden's role with Morrigan/Flemeth isn't over, whether you like that or not.

But that has nothing to do with it taking a dump on my PC.

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

But I thought you were one of the proponents that your Warden's story is not your own InExile? Why should you care if you warden wants to investigate or not? Or have you changed your mind in this instance because its convenient to support your argument?

What are you talking about? While there are some people that buy into that 3rd person narrative nonsense, I don't. I'm the other end of the extreme that think that ME is first person narrative. I certainly think DA:O is first person narrative. I happen to think it's bad first person narrative because it prevents so many choices and makes so many characters I want impossible while never making it clear to me in the game they are because of assumptions the writers make about how I roleplay, but that's another matter.

You're confusing why other people like features like VO for the reason why I like features like VO.

[Nozybidaj]

In Exile wrote...

....snip everything

/epicforeheadslap

So your Warden wants nothing to do with anything related to the first  game, didn't care about Morrigan, didn't care about the Blight, didn't  care about the Wardens, and didn't care about Fereldan.  Your Warden  just wants to be left alone and walk off into the sunset?  Fine, if they bring out a sequel about Wardens that do care about the plot, do care about Morrigan, do care about what actually happened in the first game, yousimply don't import that Warden to play.  Either make a new Warden or (like I will do with DA2) don't buy the game.

You are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, I don't even believe you really feel that way about your Warden, considering how nonsenical your argument is.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 15 octobre 2010 - 03:18 .

[In Exile]

Nozybidaj wrote...

So your Warden wants nothing to do with anything related to the first  game,

As it turns out, my Warden wants to cure his death sentence (i.e. the taint).

didn't care about Morrigan,

All of my Wardens except one had a romance with Morrigan. But there is a difference between that and chasing after her. To my Wardens, that's just crazy. There is alot to do in the here-and-now. Not dying of the taint, for one. Gaining political power and status, for another.

didn't care about the Blight

My Wardens cared very much about the Blight. My Cousland couldn't be a King with Ferelden overrun; my Mage couldn't run the Circle with no Circle. My Aeducan could not string up Bhelen's corpse and gain the crown with Orzammar overrun by darkspawn.

What does caring about the Warden order have to do with wanting to stop the Blight?

didn't  care about the Wardens,

Duncan kidnaps me, infects me with a fatal disease with a 30 year prognosis at best, murders a man in front of me when he refuses his infection, which by-the-by can kill you up-front instead of later. Yeah, so much to love and care about that order.

and didn't care about Fereldan.

Beyond a means to an end, no. My Wardens are not nationalist.

Your Warden  just wants to be left alone and walk off into the sunset? 

My Warden wants a cure from the taint and political power. None of which is related to Morrigan. If Flemeth raised some army that needed killing that would be a different matter - it would be hero time. But going off to lead the Wardens at Vigil's Keep, chasing after Morrigan - none of that is what my Warden wants to do.

You are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, I don't even believe you really feel that way about your Warden, considering how nonsenical your argument is.

Or maybe you just haven't thought people could play the game differently than you do. Unleash your inner opportunist and you will see the light.

[Vicious]

The warden is boring because he's a blank slate. Too many people have imagined traits he/she never exhibits in the game, thus the Warden is by his very NATURE, a nebulous archetype with no real character of his/her own.



Given that fact, how the hell could the Warden EVER make a return? He's not Shepard, he's not the Bhaalspawn, he's a 1-shot hero who is completely replacable by an unknown character named the 'Orlesian Warden.'





But then, I said a long time ago on DA:O boards that I was betting DA2 would be voiced and have a singular protagonist. Naturally I was guessing the godbaby when I said this, but I was right about everything else. So it wasn't a shock to me in the least.

[SirShreK]

Vicious wrote...

The warden is boring because he's a blank slate. Too many people have imagined traits he/she never exhibits in the game, thus the Warden is by his very NATURE, a nebulous archetype with no real character of his/her own.

/Idiot.

Given that fact, how the hell could the Warden EVER make a return? He's not Shepard, he's not the Bhaalspawn, he's a 1-shot hero who is completely replacable by an unknown character named the 'Orlesian Warden.'

/Idiot x 2

But then, I said a long time ago on DA:O boards that I was betting DA2 would be voiced and have a singular protagonist. Naturally I was guessing the godbaby when I said this, but I was right about everything else. So it wasn't a shock to me in the least.

Ok. This is fine. Just for curiosity's sake Proof?

[upsettingshorts]

Why would anyone sate your curiosity after being labeled an idiot, twice?

[SirShreK]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Why would anyone sate your curiosity after being labeled an idiot, twice?

umm.. Because they are?

[Herr Uhl]

SirShreK wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Why would anyone sate your curiosity after being labeled an idiot, twice?

umm.. Because they are?

You show yourself to be smart by calling others idiots. I applaud you. You contributed to the discussion very much.

And there were a lot of people thinking that DA2 would be voiced.

[SirShreK]

Herr Uhl wrote...

And there were a lot of people thinking that DA2 would be voiced.

Undoubtably.