316 réponses à ce sujet

[sw33t nothings]

I'm of two minds about it. On one hand, I will miss the Warden, but quite frankly, most of my characters deserve a break from saving the world, and I am thrilled to imagine them off living happily ever after having torrid romances and making babies. The way that origins ended, most of mine weren't even playable anymore, anyhow.



I'm excited to have a knew experience and fall in love with all new characters. I think that importing our characters from DA:O is a fantastic compromise, so that we can have our legacy live on, without getting bored of the same thing and characters.

[arathor_87]

Zanaide wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

But I also understand they want to come with new ideas and characters, but to hrow away the Warden for all future After what Morrigan said to him would be weird, or even stupid from MY point of view.  A hero will continue to fight evil until he dies, not vanishing forever. Thats why I think the end of the Warden is terrible, not that the second game is about Hawke (even if my first message looks like that).

The problem is, you don't really know what Bioware is planning for the future. This is a new gaming franchise and there are many stories and possibilities to explore over the course of the next 70-some years that are left in The Dragon Age. Why limit yourself to only playing a near demi-god, someone who has carved out their role in that age. We might play the Warden again or we might not. Unless you know what the script is for DA2 and subsequent games it's pointless to make statements such as BioWare is throwing out the Warden and all we accomplished in DA:O/A/DLC.

I see where you're coming from but none of us know for sure what BioWare is planning for the future except the people that work there and I'm sure they all have non-disclosure contracts.

Well, I think he did mentio that the wardens decisions can reflect some parts of world, but the Warden wont take part in DA2, its all about Hawke. I can understand that. But can't you agree that' it's a litte weird if we won't see the Warden again after what Morrigan told him/her about the new threat. Why would Morrigan tell the Warden this, if didn't plan to act? A hero just don't resign after news likte that..

Thats why I think its a terrible ending, and I say ending because I think they have trashed him forever. But I hope i am wrong, as many others..

Modifié par arathor_87, 14 octobre 2010 - 07:08 .

[Ticladesign]

There are two things wrong in this phrase:



First, as upsettingshorts point, NWN is not the root. The Bhaalspawn series (Baldur's Gate) is.

Second: Neverwinter Nights was mediocre, closer to awful than good.

If they are to go back to something, Planescape Torment is the place to go.

Neverwinter Nights is only mediocre if you havent looked any further than the Campaign. And even that I question, the nwn campaign was pretty decent. But I didnt spent much time in it.. For me it was the Toolset, custom modules and Persistent Worlds. basically, what nwn was designed for: a computer version of D&D with a DM client. The campaign was just one part of it, and not the full experience.



My post was my personal opinion, and my first Bioware game was NWN. At least one I played regurarily. Never gotten into Baldurs gate, never liked the engine much. Planescape, I didnt like the setting, didnt like the forced main character who's behaviour I didnt like, and didnt like the massive amount of reading in a Foreign language. I understand English fine, but Planescape was just too tedious. The game was also a Sales disaster in my country. Nobody really liked it for various reasons, I guess.



NWN was an instant hit, the first RPG that was in the Gamespy charts in between all the shooters.



I know Bioware for NWN, and for me - personally it's their best game. Thus, their roots, in my experience. Sure to some it might be Baldurs gate, but there's more games doing Baldurs gate type games (drakensang ect.) NWN was, and is an Unique game with it's user friendly toolset and DM client.

[Zanaide]

arathor_87 wrote...

Well, I think he mentioned that warden decisions can reflect some parts of world, but the Warden wont take part in DA2, its all about Hawke. I can understand that. But can't you agree that' it's a litte weird if we won't see the Warden again after what Morrigan told him/her about the new threat. Why would Morrigan tell the Warden this, if didn't plan to act? 

Thats why I think its a terrible ending, and I say ending because I think they have trashed him forever. But I hope i am wrong, as many others..

The way I'm starting to look at it is, Hawke's story starts sometime in the immediate future of Cailen's death at Ostagar. The Blight is going to continue for another year+ of DA2's story. Then we have another 8 1/2-9 years of script. We might hear word of what's happening in Ferelden in that time but this is Hawke's story.

Morrigan has run off to another dimension to train her god-baby. We don't know when/who/what this next big threat will appear or in what form. Maybe Hawke has a role to play in defeating it. Maybe it is Hawke. Maybe it's the big baddie at the end of the series and the whole series is one giant recruitment mission. Or maybe nothing has anything to do with anything else in the history of Thedas during the Dragon Age.

I rather doubt that but my point is still that none of us know what Hawke's role is in the grand scheme of things.

[rogue_assassin]

arathor_87 wrote...

Hi!

Is it only me who are very disappointed that they wont make a DA2 with your Grey Warden instead of this Hawke guy? Sure DA2 can be awesome, but I feel that so many questions are unanswered even after the DLC:s. There are so many more storys to tell about my warden, Morrigan, Leliana.

As I understand DA2 will have a 10 year span and will start during the blight. But I feel that the Witch Hunt DLC have a weird ending. I don't like that characters that have so much more to give just disappear or will be mentioned in a short conversation, or show up in a short cameo role.

Is it only me who feels this way, and what's your thought about this? And DA2?

Just wait until you play it. You came to love your warden because you went through an adventure with him/her, why don't you wait until you do the same with Hawke?

I'll bet there will be a huge thread in a DA3 forum (if one is made) saying "WHAT?! you're not using Hawke? this game is crap!!"

[AlanC9]

Ticladesign wrote...
I know Bioware for NWN, and for me - personally it's their best game. Thus, their roots, in my experience. Sure to some it might be Baldurs gate, but there's more games doing Baldurs gate type games (drakensang ect.) NWN was, and is an Unique game with it's user friendly toolset and DM client.

That just isn't what "roots" means in English; it's describing the thing you're talking about, not your own experience of it. Maybe your language has a more flexible idiom there?

Other games have toolsets, of course, but the DM client  is unique to the NWN games. I suppose a lot of shooters have the toolset +MP combination too.

[DanaScu]

rogue_assassin wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

Hi!

Is it only me who are very disappointed that they wont make a DA2 with your Grey Warden instead of this Hawke guy? Sure DA2 can be awesome, but I feel that so many questions are unanswered even after the DLC:s. There are so many more storys to tell about my warden, Morrigan, Leliana.

As I understand DA2 will have a 10 year span and will start during the blight. But I feel that the Witch Hunt DLC have a weird ending. I don't like that characters that have so much more to give just disappear or will be mentioned in a short conversation, or show up in a short cameo role.

Is it only me who feels this way, and what's your thought about this? And DA2?

Just wait until you play it. You came to love your warden because you went through an adventure with him/her, why don't you wait until you do the same with Hawke?

I'll bet there will be a huge thread in a DA3 forum (if one is made) saying "WHAT?! you're not using Hawke? this game is crap!!"

It depends on the voice actor. If I can't stand the voice, I'm not using the character. I can't stand the voice for maleShepard. If I hadn't seen clips on youtube for femShep and found out I liked Jen Hale's Shepard, I would never have bothered to get the game. What good are two characters I can't stand to listen to? I'm not pre-ordering the game. Just in case.

No matter which Warden origin I chose, as long as I didn't pick the "get a ladder"combat/action voice set, I knew my Warden wasn't going to grate on my nerves like fingernails on a blackboard. One of the joys of an unvoiced pc..she or he was my Warden, not Meer's or Hale's.

[arathor_87]

rogue_assassin wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

Hi!

Is it only me who are very disappointed that they wont make a DA2 with your Grey Warden instead of this Hawke guy? Sure DA2 can be awesome, but I feel that so many questions are unanswered even after the DLC:s. There are so many more storys to tell about my warden, Morrigan, Leliana.

As I understand DA2 will have a 10 year span and will start during the blight. But I feel that the Witch Hunt DLC have a weird ending. I don't like that characters that have so much more to give just disappear or will be mentioned in a short conversation, or show up in a short cameo role.

Is it only me who feels this way, and what's your thought about this? And DA2?

Just wait until you play it. You came to love your warden because you went through an adventure with him/her, why don't you wait until you do the same with Hawke?

I'll bet there will be a huge thread in a DA3 forum (if one is made) saying "WHAT?! you're not using Hawke? this game is crap!!"

I you have followed the thread you also see that I've changed my mind on some points. Ok I understand that DA2 will be about Hawke and I will play it. BUT what I think sucks is the way they ended the warden story. Morrigan tells the Warden of a bigger threat, a new threat. So why would he just vanish forever? A hero just don't vanish after news like that.

And thats why I think it would suck if they threw the warden away forever. Why would he just vanish after this? He could be the father of the child if you choose that,  And for those who had a history with her from DA:O as an companion, love interest, or even those who are the father of the child. Wouldn't it be weird if we would never see him again? I think so, and many others too...

And yes, I won't judge the game before I've played it, but I think they could have done this better..

Modifié par arathor_87, 14 octobre 2010 - 08:10 .

[Meltemph]

Wouldn't your problem then be with DAO and not DA2 then, if you are not satisfied with how they ended it?

[arathor_87]

Meltemph wrote...

Wouldn't your problem then be with DAO and not DA2 then, if you are not satisfied with how they ended it?

Well let put it this way, I am disappointed in they way the DA team ended they Warden story. Morrigans tells the warden a new threat is coming. Why would she wait for him at the mirror to tell him this? Because the Hero of Ferelden don't give a ****? If he is the father of the child (why would he give up and just disappear), and If you didn't choose that path you still found her to get anwers, and you didn't get them. Thats why I think it would be weird if they never used him again. I don't think the warden would have gone through so much trouble to find her, and then just disappear, after what she told him..

 I mean come on, a hero just dont vanish like that. The warden found her to get answers, and the only thing he got was: There is a new threat coming, you must know this. And that's not a small thing, and on top of this he didn't get his answers. He could also be the father of the child. So I hope that DA2 won't be about this, because I think the grey warden derserves that adventure, to defeat that threat and get his answers from Morrigan (no matter the connections you did have to her).

I also want to play Hawke, but I also want to to play the gray warden one last time. Because if they won't use him again it would be a terrible ending for him, and if they will use him again it's a good cliffhanger. What I wanted to say with this is that Hawke deservers his story too, but they grey warden deservers that story I mentioned..

Do you understand what I mean, or does it sounds like total rubbish to you? 

Modifié par arathor_87, 14 octobre 2010 - 08:51 .

[In Exile]

@ arathor_87

Right, but do you see how that is your ending? What if my Warden does not want to be a hero - what if he just wants to sit back, shag some new girl and forget all about being used by Flemeth, used by Morrigan and used by Duncan and generally being caught up in some ancient, spanning conflict?

You said a hero doesn't just vanish. What if a hero just gets tired of being a hero?

The major problem with sequels for an open-ended character is that you need a justification for why that character did [x]. And this means forcing people to use characters whose motives are congruent with the story. That's not bad with a new character, but with an established character? It's terrible. Essentially, it's telling me I played DA:O wrong if my character wanted anything other than (for example) to go to the Anderfels and chill with the First Warden.

[arathor_87]

In Exile wrote...

@ arathor_87
Right, but do you see how that is your ending? What if my Warden does not want to be a hero - what if he just wants to sit back, shag some new girl and forget all about being used by Flemeth, used by Morrigan and used by Duncan and generally being caught up in some ancient, spanning conflict?
You said a hero doesn't just vanish. What if a hero just gets tired of being a hero?
The major problem with sequels for an open-ended character is that you need a justification for why that character did [x]. And this means forcing people to use characters whose motives are congruent with the story. That's not bad with a new character, but with an established character? It's terrible. Essentially, it's telling me I played DA:O wrong if my character wanted anything other than (for example) to go to the Anderfels and chill with the First Warden.

Its no my ending, many people feels this way after Morrigan told this. And how can it be my ending when many have played it? I'm not the one who came up with the Witch Hunt and the the new threat. Can't you at least understand that it looks weird when they use the warden to hunt her down to get anwers (maybe about the child fo you choose that path). Then she tells you about a new threat and all that stuff. Then she disappears into the mirror, with a new threat hanging on the wardens throat, and not many answers of the threat either. Of course people want to play him again, or where did  he go? Why would he track her down and give up after everything he/she gone through to get there, and when he didn't get anything from it. He still want those anwswers and so do many players, and thats why they think it would be weird to never see him again.

And why would he "shag" if he wanted those answers and didn't get them? It make no sense at all. I'm talking about what happens in the game, you talk about your fantasys about shagging a nude character in a game.

Modifié par arathor_87, 14 octobre 2010 - 09:13 .

[In Exile]

arathor_87 wrote...
Its no my ending, many people feels this way after Morrigan told this. And how can it be my ending when many have played it? I'm not the one who came up with the Witch Hunt and the the new threat. Can't you at least understand that if looks weird when they use the warden to hunt her down to get anwers (maybe about the child fo you choose that path). Then she tells you about a new threat and all that stuff. Then she disappears into the mirror, with a new threat hanging on the wardens throat, and not many answers of the threat either. Of course people want to play him again, or where did  he go? Why would he track her down and give up after everything he/she gone through to get there, and when he didn't get anything from it. He still want those anwswers and so do many players, and thats why they think it would be weird to never see him again..

You don't understand. The mere fact that there is a "chase after Morrigan" DLC, where a Warden to chooses to chase after Morrigan breaks the character for people. Simply put, if you have a Warden who for whatever reason would not do this, you are excluded out of the game world. There is no future sequel that will ever account for a story for your Warden, if the story becomes Morrigan central. What if my Warden is off in Antiva with Zevran? Tough luck for her - her entire story and the outcomes to her personal struggles become impossible and irrelevant because now Bioware is only writing for PCs who go after Morrigan.

Yes, for a Warden who would chase after Morrigan, Witch Hunt didn't give much answers. But not all Wardens would do this. And those that don't will never get a continuation of their story.

You can come back and say, well, that doesn't invalidate my choices - the game just stops for me there. But that's false, because I can never see the consequences of the choices for the future worlds of DA that character made unless I export the character, which means I essentially break that characters personality. It is frustrating and aversive, and this is why I am against a continuation when the PC is so open-ended.

[AlanC9]

How'd you feel about BG2? That start is pretty infamous for just assuming that you're using a standard good party. Anyone who booted Khalid and Jaheira and never took Minsc on at all is simply screwed. Or maybe retconned is the word.

I'm constantly amused by how a game with so much terrible design has such an immaculate reputation.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 octobre 2010 - 09:23 .

[Blastback]

Anarya wrote...

Aw c'mon. Don't you want to give Hawke and his companions a chance? What if they're awesome?

Personally, I'm willing to give new charaters a chance, but at the same time I'm dissapointed with how the Warden's story just fizzled out.  I'd be alot happier steping into Hawke's shoes if my first charater had been given a stronger ending.  What if the same thing happens to Hawke? 

Plus, I like seeing charaters and their relationships evolve over multiple games ala Mass Effect or Baldur's Gate.

AlanC9 wrote...

How'd you feel about BG2? That start is
pretty infamous for just assuming that you're using a standard good
party. Anyone who booted Khalid and Jaheira and never took Minsc on at
all is simply screwed. Or maybe retconned is the word.

I'm constantly amused by how a game with so much terrible design has such an immaculate reputation.

Part of it would have to do with the improvements in tech that have been made.  Not to mention, I don't think that Bioware was sure that there would be a sequal, or that they would be the ones to make it, so it didn't have the kind of import options that we see in games like Mass Effect.

Sides, I played BG2 before Baldur's gate.

Modifié par Blastback, 14 octobre 2010 - 09:32 .

[SirShreK]

AlanC9 wrote...

How'd you feel about BG2? That start is pretty infamous for just assuming that you're using a standard good party. Anyone who booted Khalid and Jaheira and never took Minsc on at all is simply screwed. Or maybe retconned is the word.

I'm constantly amused by how a game with so much terrible design has such an immaculate reputation.

Brainless much?

Do you know the year it was released?

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...
How'd you feel about BG2? That start is pretty infamous for just assuming that you're using a standard good party. Anyone who booted Khalid and Jaheira and never took Minsc on at all is simply screwed. Or maybe retconned is the word.

I think it would have given me an aneurysm if I was playing it at the time it came out. When I got BG/BG2 I already knew about the design choice, so it didn't really bother/affect me all that much.

I'm constantly amused by how a game with so much terrible design has such an immaculate reputation.

I think part of it has to do with the the experience people had with the game. KoTOR was the first RPG I properly played and for a long time it was impossible for me to see any weakness in it.

[arathor_87]

In Exile wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...
Its no my ending, many people feels this way after Morrigan told this. And how can it be my ending when many have played it? I'm not the one who came up with the Witch Hunt and the the new threat. Can't you at least understand that if looks weird when they use the warden to hunt her down to get anwers (maybe about the child fo you choose that path). Then she tells you about a new threat and all that stuff. Then she disappears into the mirror, with a new threat hanging on the wardens throat, and not many answers of the threat either. Of course people want to play him again, or where did  he go? Why would he track her down and give up after everything he/she gone through to get there, and when he didn't get anything from it. He still want those anwswers and so do many players, and thats why they think it would be weird to never see him again..

You don't understand. The mere fact that there is a "chase after Morrigan" DLC, where a Warden to chooses to chase after Morrigan breaks the character for people. Simply put, if you have a Warden who for whatever reason would not do this, you are excluded out of the game world. There is no future sequel that will ever account for a story for your Warden, if the story becomes Morrigan central. What if my Warden is off in Antiva with Zevran? Tough luck for her - her entire story and the outcomes to her personal struggles become impossible and irrelevant because now Bioware is only writing for PCs who go after Morrigan.

Yes, for a Warden who would chase after Morrigan, Witch Hunt didn't give much answers. But not all Wardens would do this. And those that don't will never get a continuation of their story.

You can come back and say, well, that doesn't invalidate my choices - the game just stops for me there. But that's false, because I can never see the consequences of the choices for the future worlds of DA that character made unless I export the character, which means I essentially break that characters personality. It is frustrating and aversive, and this is why I am against a continuation when the PC is so open-ended.

Well, you don't see the whole picture here. Even if you didn't shag Morrigan in the DA:O they said that Morrigan will play a big part in DA., and either way she got the child, and since the Witch Hunt DLC is a bridge to the future for DA we can most likely expect that the child will have impact on the future, and Flemeth to of course. And because this is the bridge it would be weird to trash the warden for all future, for those who played the original Warden or those who choose the orlesian one.

So those who choose to shag Morrigan and who is the father wont get answers with his warden after this DLC and the other wardens wont get it either, And since the warden in some way have a connection to Morrigan it would be weird to throw him away for good after her statement, why would he give up? And if you don't want to play him, if he returns, no one will force you. I'm sure a game like that would have several options to choose from the beginning, so you not would be forced to play your old warden if you didn't want too..

[Sable Rhapsody]

Bratt1204 wrote...
Yes but now that our Warden is familiar I have zero interest in playing a supposed SEQUEL as some unknown Hawke. It's not a sequel, its a entirely different game and it should marketed as such.

Oh dear.  Someone alert the video game industry.  KOTOR 2, NWN 2, the subsequent Fallout games...these can no longer be classified as sequels.  Starcraft: Brood War features a different silent protagonist than the silent protagonist of the original Starcraft--apparently it's an entirely different game though it requires the original to play.  And hey, for all those whose wardens died and started playing a brand-new protagonist in Awakening?  Apparently you've been playing an entirely different game too!  Who knew?  (Glibness aside, few games allow you to import a protagonist--or even decisions--from one game to the next.  I think we're just spoilt for choice given BioWare's games that do allow import--BG, ME, etc.)

arathor_87 wrote...

Well, you don't see the whole picture here. Even if you didn't shag Morrigan in the DA:O they said that Morrigan will play a big part in DA., and either way she got the child, and since the Witch Hunt DLC is a bridge to the future for DA we can most likely expect that the child will have impact on the future, and Flemeth to of course. And because this is the bridge it would be weird to trash the warden for all future, for those who played the original Warden or those who choose the orlesian one.

So those who choose to shag Morrigan and who is the father wont get answers with his warden after this DLC and the other wardens wont get it either, And since the warden in some way have a connection to Morrigan it would be weird to throw him away for good after her statement, why would he give up? And if you don't want to play him, if he returns, no one will force you. I'm sure a game like that would have several options to choose from the beginning, so you not would be forced to play your old warden if you didn't want too..

I think you're missing In Exile's point.  Yes, Morrigan and Flemeth are important to the story as a whole, but you're looking at it through the lens of someone who played a Warden who was personally tied to Morrigan's story.  Many players chose this route, but not every player did.  What about other players who hated Morrigan, ignored her, turned down the ritual, and never thought anything more of it?  What about the players whose Wardens were happy to just let her leave in peace?  What about players whose Wardens are dead as a doornail?

As for the option of either playing as your Warden or not, that runs into all sorts of design issues, both mechanical and roleplaying.  BioWare would have to support three possibilities: importing a Warden without playing him/her, starting a new character from scratch, and importing a Warden for play.  There would have to be some McGuffin to explain why a) the Warden sucks all of a sudden or why the new character is equally badass as someone who defeated the Blight.  From a roleplaying perspective, the problem is that the Warden brings to the table all sorts of world-changing backstory, relationship baggage, etc.  that BioWare would have to accommodate, far beyond the scope of origins.  It would be like playing Origins, except with thousands and thousands of origin stories instead of just six.  The Warden is just too open-ended of a character, unlike, say, Revan or Shepard.

Finally, you're acting as though Morrigan's child is canonical.  It's not.  For those who denied her the Dark Ritual and never romanced her, it never happened.  PERIOD.  The only way to continue a core storyline into DA2 using Morrigan as the crux of the story is to canonize one of the most critical decisions in the game.  I'm sure more people would be pissed about that than having to play a new protagonist.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 14 octobre 2010 - 10:14 .

[Morrigans God son]

rogue_assassin wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

Hi!

Is it only me who are very disappointed that they wont make a DA2 with your Grey Warden instead of this Hawke guy? Sure DA2 can be awesome, but I feel that so many questions are unanswered even after the DLC:s. There are so many more storys to tell about my warden, Morrigan, Leliana.

As I understand DA2 will have a 10 year span and will start during the blight. But I feel that the Witch Hunt DLC have a weird ending. I don't like that characters that have so much more to give just disappear or will be mentioned in a short conversation, or show up in a short cameo role.

Is it only me who feels this way, and what's your thought about this? And DA2?

Just wait until you play it. You came to love your warden because you went through an adventure with him/her, why don't you wait until you do the same with Hawke?

I'll bet there will be a huge thread in a DA3 forum (if one is made) saying "WHAT?! you're not using Hawke? this game is crap!!"

How much you willing to bet?
Even if the game turn out to be great. ( Which I doubt considering what has been realeased so far. ) I'll still want to play as the warden again. EVEN IF DA2 TURNS OUT TO BETTER.

[Dave of Canada]

Morrigans God son wrote...
How much you willing to bet?

Depends. The playerbase or just you? You've already made up your mind, going everywhere insulting DA2 and even hating DA2 on your profile. However, I feel the overall playerbase would want to keep Hawke.

[Herr Uhl]

SirShreK wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

How'd you feel about BG2? That start is pretty infamous for just assuming that you're using a standard good party. Anyone who booted Khalid and Jaheira and never took Minsc on at all is simply screwed. Or maybe retconned is the word.

I'm constantly amused by how a game with so much terrible design has such an immaculate reputation.

Brainless much?

Do you know the year it was released?

2000? What does that have to do with anything?

BG2 was horrid in that respect.

[John Epler]

Hey! People can have opinions that aren't yours! Let's cut out the insults.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Morrigans God son wrote...

How much you willing to bet?
Even if the game turn out to be great. ( Which I doubt considering what has been realeased so far. ) I'll still want to play as the warden again. EVEN IF DA2 TURNS OUT TO BETTER.

I'm reminded of the folks who are still eternally bitter to BioWare and LucasArts for not letting them play as Revan in every subsequent game set in that time period.  Of course, I think Revan is the worst Gary Stu ever and I'd like nothing better than to stab out his eyes with an irate wombat, but that's mostly due to his canonization.  Not BioWare's fault.

I also have to admit to suffering a little bit of hype backlash over Morrigan.  And Tali from ME2.  They're great characters.  I love them to bits.  I don't think their stories are the be-all-end-all of their respective franchises, and I certainly think saying "Morrigan's story is not over" is NOT akin to saying "Morrigan's role is critical."  She could evaporate off the face of Thedas, and I don't think anything would be dramatically changed.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 14 octobre 2010 - 10:36 .