198 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Just like I fail to see how magically teleporting across the screen makes combat any better either, aside from it looking flat out silly.

It does nothing to combat, because ''under the hood'' the game is the same. It's like when they restructured how backstab works (though this was a while ago, so this may be subject to change). Now rogue abilities trigger of critical hits instead of backstabs, but flaking gives a huge bonus to critical hits. So this removes some of the need to micromanage your rogue, where preserving the utility of DA:O

In general, I would say the combat looks cool now, instead of silly and lame. But there is just a fundamental divide between the gritty and acrobatic combat aesthetics that seem to be incredibly polarizing.

[upsettingshorts]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I didn't think Origins animations were all that realistic personally, but in a differen... 

Hang on, I have to swing my two-handed sword.

...I've got it up above my head now, swinging down...

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 octobre 2010 - 01:36 .

[upsettingshorts]

...and there it goes. Crap, I missed completely. Looks like I'll have to start again.



Anyway what was I saying? Oh yeah, Dragon Age: Origins animations had their own issues that definitely needed improvement. I think I'd rather have animations that are too fast than too slow.

[Esbatty]

I'll take whatever women's underwear ya'll designed. Yessssss... all for 'Batty.

[tmp7704]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anyway what was I saying? Oh yeah, Dragon Age: Origins animations had their own issues that definitely needed improvement. I think I'd rather have animations that are too fast than too slow.

Actually makes me wonder now that you bring it up, if having the slower style of 2hand weapon animation combined with the change to make its attack aoe wouldn't result in something that'd be more fun that either DAO or DA2 approach... i'm thinking specifically that the delay on the attack itself but having the ability to trigger the attack at any moment could lead to situation where the player would be actively trying to anticipate enemy movements, in a way having to "aim" them where they'd expect the enemy to be a moment later.

Modifié par tmp7704, 13 octobre 2010 - 01:52 .

[Herr Uhl]

tmp7704 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anyway what was I saying? Oh yeah, Dragon Age: Origins animations had their own issues that definitely needed improvement. I think I'd rather have animations that are too fast than too slow.

Actually makes me wonder now that you bring it up, if having the slower style of 2hand weapon animation combined with the change to make its attack aoe wouldn't result in something that'd be more fun that either DAO or DA2 approach... i'm thinking specifically that the delay on the attack itself but having the ability to trigger the attack at any moment could lead to situation where the player would be actively trying to anticipate enemy movements, in a way having to "aim" them where they'd expect the enemy to be a moment later.

I think that the reason for the fast animations on the demo is specifically to avoid that and/or the jarring load attacks that you couldn't get away from even if you ran away. Like the ram-attack of the ogre and various shield bashes.

Then again, the new AOE style attacks could solve that. I'm hoping for the animations to be slowed down a bit and the system being kind of what like you propose.

[nightcobra]

as long as my character doesn't have to go around the 3 or 4 allies that are gang-banging the enemy until he finds a spot that enables him to attack i'm good.

[Herr Uhl]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

as long as my character doesn't have to go around the 3 or 4 allies that are gang-banging the enemy until he finds a spot that enables him to attack i'm good.

Well, now you hit them too instead.

Edit: If FF is active that is.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 13 octobre 2010 - 02:02 .

[nightcobra]

the best part of combat i've heard until now are the closing attacks for warriors, finally. i don't have to run after those cowards again, i can now stop them in their tracks.

[SteveGarbage]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SteveGarbage wrote...
Origins was very rooted in a realistic look even for many of its special moves. If you wanted to use Mighty Blow, you just wound up and made a big swing. If you wanted to do Critical Strike, you just brought your sword from over your head.

I didn't think Origins animations were all that realistic personally, but in a differen... 

Hang on, I have to swing my two-handed sword.

Well their animations were more realistically based aside from the fact that it looked like they were swinging a sword that weighed 150 pounds, heh.

[Amioran]

goldminer430 wrote...

A video posted by DragonAgeWiki. Now this is'nt going one of those "hate threads" Because this is just about one subject. I liked the last game, it graphic, and combat. But the new combat in the video has a lot of a  hack and slash vibe to it.

Do you know there's a little tiny handy option in the forums that's called "search"? Maybe if instead of complaining and repeat the same things over and over again you (and others) would make a little homework. you will have understood that this particular thing has being talked about a lot and it has already being demonstrated why it isn't objectively "right" what you say.

I, and assume also others, am bored of repeating always the same things, always explaing why you are wrong having already exhaustively done so, so why don't you please inform yourself a litttle more before you write something that has been debated already to no end, on both fronts? It would be a nice change for once in a while, you know.

Modifié par Amioran, 13 octobre 2010 - 02:18 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Well, damn. Seems there's no way to fix combat at all!

SHUT IT DOWN, FOLKS!

Can I still buy what was finished of the project before you shut it down?

Sure! We'll do a fire sale on witty one liners, and pathos is all piled up in the back, there, beside the big-ass creatures. Mind your shins, the mabari bite.

Dibs on Bethany.

[Herr Uhl]

Amioran wrote...

goldminer430 wrote...

A video posted by DragonAgeWiki. Now this is'nt going one of those "hate threads" Because this is just about one subject. I liked the last game, it graphic, and combat. But the new combat in the video has a lot of a  hack and slash vibe to it.

Do you know there's a little tiny handy option in the forums that's called "search"? Maybe if instead of complaining and repeat the same things over and over again you (and others) would make a little homework. you will have understood that this particular thing has being talked about a lot and it has already being demonstrated why it isn't objectively "right" what you say.

I, and assume also others, am bored of repeating always the same things, always explaing why you are wrong having already exhaustively done so, so why don't you please inform yourself a litttle more before you write something that has been debated already to no end, on both fronts? It would be a nice change for once in a while, you know.

To be fair, all of those threads get locked and the search function is bad at best.

[Nozybidaj]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

I fail to see how slowly shuffling around like a confused 82 year old at a nursing home somehow makes the combat more strategic.

Just like I fail to see how magically teleporting across the screen makes combat any better either, aside from it looking flat out silly.

Well, damn. Seems there's no way to fix combat at all!

SHUT IT DOWN, FOLKS!

Or you could, you know, shoot for somewhere between "dancing to the oldies" and "the matrix".  Lots of room there to land.

[goldminer430]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

As a general rule, I'm finding that people who only see the combat tend to get worried, while people who have played it find it refreshing and fun. Clearly not universally the case, but from my standpoint, that's just fine: it needs to play well. The visuals are just a talking point after that one's handled.

I see your point, i'm bound to like the game, i mean there is a reason i keep buying your games.

And I, just love how threads become like this on these forums so quickly, :happy:i thinks it's genuine comedy. And remember i'm not hating on anything so don't yell at be or tell be to search for locked threads in an mediocre at best search bar.

Modifié par goldminer430, 13 octobre 2010 - 02:36 .

[1varangian]

Don't like the shuffling and delayed actions in Origins.

But also don't like the ninja style gameplay and exploding hurlocks I've seen so far. Stuff like that works for Ninja Gaiden but not for a greatsword wielding Hawke in an RPG. Origins was painfully slow but it seems in DA2 they way overdid the speed adjustment and are generally headed towards more "fun" action style gameplay.

An RPG needs to look believable above all things. If the combat looks like anime, it strongly influences the overall feel of the game. That can really hurt the immersion of the story. The game quickly becomes a "fun romp" where you just run through exploding corpses with little regard to the story, because you no longer take anything seriously and it's fun to make stuff explode. At this point you've lost the magic of the RPG where the player believes the world and the story.

I understand that the gameplay video was "exaggerated" but in game terms that probably mean the characters were of higher level. So I fully expect the combat to look ridiculous and unbelievable by level 15 at the latest.

I really hope the developers at Bioware keep in mind the story they are telling, and the level of immersion they want to reach. And then take a look at the gameplay and think hard if the exploding hurlocks and teleporting greatsword ninja warriors belong in that story.

Modifié par 1varangian, 13 octobre 2010 - 03:12 .

[nightcobra]

simfamSP wrote...

Well, this is my point of view. From the 'leaked' gameplay footage, I can see that it is BG: Dark Alliance stuff combat wise. Press X to attack and swing your sword. The graphics are actually great and the gore is fun. But I believe this type of combat is ONLY introduced to the console version.

If so, Kudos bioware for understanding the console generation. I am a PC gamer, I will never buy an RPG for the console. But still I like the idea that you have changed the combat for the console players to make it more appealing to them, and I understand completely.

I just hope the PC will still have the tactical combat that was introduced in Origins. Combat does not make an RPG, but I still would prefer strategy in my PC than mouse clicking 1000 times to get an Ogre down :-)

just to make sure, you'll still have tactical combat in DA2 on consoles, you can try to play as an hack and slash but later on that will only get you killed.

[Brockololly]

1varangian wrote...
But also don't like the ninja style gameplay and exploding hurlocks I've seen so far. Stuff like that works for Ninja Gaiden but not for a greatsword wielding Hawke in an RPG. Origins was painfully slow but it seems in DA2 they way overdid the speed adjustment and are generally headed towards more "fun" action style gameplay.

I totally agree- I have no problem with the attacks being sped up such that they're more responsive. But I just think that the animations look ridiculous in the leaked stuff so far.

And thats just the warrior. I won't link it here, but know that some basic youtube searching turns up a video of this same demo with Rogue Hawke. Yeah....he is flipping, spinning and somersaulting all over the place and its funny more than anything. Its all extremely anime-ish. Which some people may like, but I don't care for.

1varangian wrote...
I understand that the gameplay video was "exaggerated" but in game terms that probably mean the characters were of higher level. So I fully expect the combat to look ridiculous and unbelievable by level 15 at the latest.

I think you're right on this- the exaggerated aspects mainly are the over the top gore, overall ease and having the player leveled up. But the combat is still going to look like that in the real game.

1varangian wrote...
I really hope the developers at Bioware keep in mind the story they are telling, and the level of immersion they want to reach. And then take a look at the gameplay and think hard if the exploding hurlocks and teleporting greatsword ninja warriors belong in that story.

Yes, I find it kind of hard to take the story seriously when the combat looks that over the top and silly, exaggerated or not.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

I fail to see how slowly shuffling around like a confused 82 year old at a nursing home somehow makes the combat more strategic.

Just like I fail to see how magically teleporting across the screen makes combat any better either, aside from it looking flat out silly.

Well, damn. Seems there's no way to fix combat at all!

SHUT IT DOWN, FOLKS!

Or you could, you know, shoot for somewhere between "dancing to the oldies" and "the matrix".  Lots of room there to land.

This x 100

[MerinTB]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

I fail to see how slowly shuffling around like a confused 82 year old at a nursing home somehow makes the combat more strategic.

Just like I fail to see how magically teleporting across the screen makes combat any better either, aside from it looking flat out silly.

Well, damn. Seems there's no way to fix combat at all!

SHUT IT DOWN, FOLKS!

...

Just throwing this out there, even though I know it's not going to be considered (especially at this point in the game's development, of course, but also looking at all of BioWare's games from BG forward...)

...

turn-based? :innocent:

[1varangian]

Brockololly wrote...

And thats just the warrior. I won't link it here, but know that some basic youtube searching turns up a video of this same demo with Rogue Hawke. Yeah....he is flipping, spinning and somersaulting all over the place and its funny more than anything. Its all extremely anime-ish. Which some people may like, but I don't care for.

I had to watch this. Now I'm more worried than ever that DA2 will be reduced to action RPG-lite.

I am starting to feel sorry for the writers who are without a doubt creating an awesome story with great characters.. characters who won't be believable because of their anime style battlefield antics and oversized weapons.

I thought Scattershot in Origins was ridiculous and immersion breaking, but the DA2 Rogue seems to top that by a wide margin with teleporting and a bunch of other magic abilities. So now all 3 classes are some kind of hybrid mages at high levels?

It looks like Biodevs have become blind and lost the grasp on what is cool for a serious RPG and what is just plain silly.

[The Masked Rog]

1varangian wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

And thats just the warrior. I won't link it here, but know that some basic youtube searching turns up a video of this same demo with Rogue Hawke. Yeah....he is flipping, spinning and somersaulting all over the place and its funny more than anything. Its all extremely anime-ish. Which some people may like, but I don't care for.

I had to watch this. Now I'm more worried than ever that DA2 will be reduced to action RPG-lite.

I am starting to feel sorry for the writers who are without a doubt creating an awesome story with great characters.. characters who won't be believable because of their anime style battlefield antics and oversized weapons.

I thought Scattershot in Origins was ridiculous and immersion breaking, but the DA2 Rogue seems to top that by a wide margin with teleporting and a bunch of other magic abilities. So now all 3 classes are some kind of hybrid mages at high levels?

It looks like Biodevs have become blind and lost the grasp on what is cool for a serious RPG and what is just plain silly.

The rogue looked fantastic to me. Very light and ninja like, it felt really different from the warrior, which IMO is a good thing. It now seemed to be an agile type class and I foun the anime like animations to be terrific.

[1varangian]

The Masked Rog wrote...

The rogue looked fantastic to me. Very light and ninja like, it felt really different from the warrior, which IMO is a good thing. It now seemed to be an agile type class and I foun the anime like animations to be terrific.

I would say the exact same thing if this was the Diablo 3 or any other action game forum.

[axa89]

1varangian wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

The rogue looked fantastic to me. Very light and ninja like, it felt really different from the warrior, which IMO is a good thing. It now seemed to be an agile type class and I foun the anime like animations to be terrific.

I would say the exact same thing if this was the Diablo 3 or any other action game forum.

Why? Do the acrobatics diminish in some way the tactical portion of the game?

Modifié par axa89, 13 octobre 2010 - 05:51 .