198 réponses à ce sujet

[jhawke]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I just want to know if the exaggerated leaping and poofing happens during normal play. I find it extremely hard to believe there's different combat animations for different portions of the game.

Enemies won't die in 1 hit, sure, but Hawke and company will still be swinging/charging/rolling etc at the speed of light I'd imagine?

If you are talking about the rogue's backflip and smoke bomb abilties I really don't know why you find them so annoying. The smoke bomb works the same as Origins grenades and fits perfectly with the style of a DA rogue, while the backflip (when used in normal play) has a cooldown and can't be spammed, not to mention I found it best saved for when surrounded anyway, you could only go backwards. I don't know if they will add other acrobatic moves, but nothing I saw in the demo seemed extreme. The speed of the combat and the use of special abilities in the exaggerated portion of the game is significantly different to the normal gameplay. Normal gameplay which is -certainly- not at the speed of light.

Not to mention that the demo seems little changed from when it was first compiled earlier in the year?

Not that I'm unhappy with much at the moment anyway (my one complaint of any seriousness, the speed of 2-handers, was addressed on the forums in fact) but I'll be waiting for some actual Bioware gameplay of a more recent build before I get worked up about anything.

So..........wait??  The over-the-top fighting and talents, like the Warrior charging in a streak of light, or the Rogue backflipping and teleporting.  Those talents only look crazy cool during Varric's exaggerated portion, and look different when you play the normal gameplay?

Like, in the videos, you see Warrior Hawke doing the Charge attack, and he flashes forward in a streak of light.  Personally, I think that looks beyond cool and it has got me excited to play as a Warrior. 

But, in the normal gameplay part of the demo ( which was not shown in the videos ), does that Charge attack suddenly look less flashy ( no streak of light )?

Oh, and did you see any Sword and Shield Warriors use that Charge attack?

[Apollo Starflare]

@jhawke: No, that isn't what I'm saying. Going from my experiences with the demo the animations were the same but in the exaggerated portion they were used more frequently (and sped up maybe?) along with the other already detailed exaggerated differences. As far as I can remember the charge also looks the same in 'normal' play, although I found myself quickly growing used to it - it didn't feel out of place really.



As for the S+S warriors, from what I remember they get it (or a similar animation) however only Aveline was available as that class variation and I didn't use her much, when I did it was usually tanking anyway.

[tmp7704]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Yeah, the shuffle is pretty much gone. Charging into combat is a default ability, you don't need to do anything special to close with a foe besides attack.
Have I not made my views on shuffling clear?

I guess the impression it's still very much present comes from the characters in video spending some time running about the screen rather than "warp-attack" from target to target and since the running appears to be done in that hunched position very similar to DAO, and the shuffling essentially was characters running... well, visually, it's still there if the player doesn't utilize their warp ability 100% of time.

That made me wonder btw, what is the range of the charge thing? I mean, can it be used to close to enemy at max range (50m away) instantly, or does it require for player and their target to be closer?

[Seb Hanlon]

tmp7704 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Yeah, the shuffle is pretty much gone. Charging into combat is a default ability, you don't need to do anything special to close with a foe besides attack.
Have I not made my views on shuffling clear?

I guess the impression it's still very much present comes from the characters in video spending some time running about the screen rather than "warp-attack" from target to target and since the running appears to be done in that hunched position very similar to DAO, and the shuffling essentially was characters running... well, visually, it's still there if the player doesn't utilize their warp ability 100% of time.

That made me wonder btw, what is the range of the charge thing? I mean, can it be used to close to enemy at max range (50m away) instantly, or does it require for player and their target to be closer?

The closing attacks (distance-specific variations on the basic attack) are available inside medium range -- five meters or so away from your target. Depending on where you are inside that range, different animations and timing are used to make the attack fit the distance to the target.

edit: The warrior's "charge" ability has a longer range, but takes more time to execute and cools down/consumes stamina like any other ability. It still doesn't warp across the map.

Modifié par Seb Hanlon, 14 octobre 2010 - 04:35 .

[tmp7704]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

The closing attacks (distance-specific variations on the basic attack) are available inside medium range -- five meters or so away from your target. Depending on where you are inside that range, different animations and timing are used to make the attack fit the distance to the target.

edit: The warrior's "charge" ability has a longer range, but takes more time to execute and cools down/consumes stamina like any other ability. It still doesn't warp across the map.

Ahh, thank you. So, if i'm reading that right, that means shuffling can still occur, as long as the target i want to attack has more than ~5m headstart? Would explain why the player was running around in these videos. And all things considered that's probably decent compromise.

Modifié par tmp7704, 14 octobre 2010 - 04:42 .

[jhawke]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

@jhawke: No, that isn't what I'm saying. Going from my experiences with the demo the animations were the same but in the exaggerated portion they were used more frequently (and sped up maybe?) along with the other already detailed exaggerated differences. As far as I can remember the charge also looks the same in 'normal' play, although I found myself quickly growing used to it - it didn't feel out of place really.

As for the S+S warriors, from what I remember they get it (or a similar animation) however only Aveline was available as that class variation and I didn't use her much, when I did it was usually tanking anyway.

Thanks Apollo Starflare!!  I'm glad to hear that!

I was starting to get concerned that the cool looking charge attack was only going to look cool during the exaggerated portions and that it was only available for 2h, instead of being a universal Warrior talent.........lol.

speaking of which, I'm wondering if in the actual game, we will be able to create our Hawke's appearance, choose class, and choose starting weapon style ( S+S, 2h for Warrior, DW or Archer for Rogue ) before we jump into Varric's exaggerated narration.

Based on the demo videos, it seems we only choose our gender and class, and then we are thrown right into Varric's narration, using default Hawke and the default weapon ( 2h for Warriors, DW for Rogues ).

[Seb Hanlon]

tmp7704 wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

The closing attacks (distance-specific variations on the basic attack) are available inside medium range -- five meters or so away from your target. Depending on where you are inside that range, different animations and timing are used to make the attack fit the distance to the target.

edit: The warrior's "charge" ability has a longer range, but takes more time to execute and cools down/consumes stamina like any other ability. It still doesn't warp across the map.

Ahh, thank you. So, if i'm reading that right, that means shuffling can still occur, as long as the target i want to attack has more than ~5m headstart? Would explain why the player was running around in these videos. And all things considered that's probably decent compromise.

When we talk about "shuffling", we usually use the term to refer to the side-step pathfinding and rotating behavior that DAO characters would engage in before starting their attack animations. In DA2, melee characters using basic attacks from outside medium range still need to run toward their target and close the gap before using the appropriate closing attack. No shuffling required.

edit for clarity
Some abilities, like Mighty Blow (as shown in the demo playable at PAX), require you to be at close melee range with your target. On PC, for example, when you use Mighty Blow, your character will run up to the target (if not already in range) before executing the attack. The non-responsive shuffling has been largely eliminated by tuning the animation and movement systems.

Modifié par Seb Hanlon, 14 octobre 2010 - 05:13 .

[Herr Uhl]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

edit for clarity
Some abilities, like Mighty Blow (as shown in the demo playable at PAX), require you to be at close melee range with your target. On PC, for example, when you use Mighty Blow, your character will run up to the target (if not already in range) before executing the attack. The non-responsive shuffling has been largely eliminated by tuning the animation and movement systems.

So, are any of the abilities going to be slow enough to allow you to run away, ogres ram skill, where they hit anyways? Or will the attack once initiated be area based?

[Brockololly]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Agreed Jazz. Whats sad is the rogue gameplay I saw looked kinda like those yoda fight scenes in a way.

I was reminded yet again of Power Rangers, just with gobs of blood to make it infinitely more "mature.":?

Herr Uhl wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Or
just smooth out the animations in general so they're not so herky jerky
looking. Instead they sped them up and added a warp/charge. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

Well, I think they're working on smoothing them out. The charge thing could use work, just having the legs move would be enough.

Yeah, I mean, if Hawke is a warrior decked out in huge armor, wielding a massive sword, I don't want him floating around the battlefield like a ballerina. If a warrior like that is going to "charge" I want to see his legs driving and maybe his arms pumping- make it look like he is actually exerting himself and not just doing the electric slide across the map complete with flame trails.

[Merced256]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Yeah, the shuffle is pretty much gone. Charging into combat is a default ability, you don't need to do anything special to close with a foe besides attack.
Have I not made my views on shuffling clear?

I guess the impression it's still very much present comes from the characters in video spending some time running about the screen rather than "warp-attack" from target to target and since the running appears to be done in that hunched position very similar to DAO, and the shuffling essentially was characters running... well, visually, it's still there if the player doesn't utilize their warp ability 100% of time.

That made me wonder btw, what is the range of the charge thing? I mean, can it be used to close to enemy at max range (50m away) instantly, or does it require for player and their target to be closer?

The closing attacks (distance-specific variations on the basic attack) are available inside medium range -- five meters or so away from your target. Depending on where you are inside that range, different animations and timing are used to make the attack fit the distance to the target.

edit: The warrior's "charge" ability has a longer range, but takes more time to execute and cools down/consumes stamina like any other ability. It still doesn't warp across the map.

Wait... Can you clarify a bit on what you mean by distance specific variations of the basic attack? My interpretation is that if you auto-attack(or hell lets say any attack besides the ability "charge") a target outside of the required distance; that triggers a closing attack animation where you... warp to your target?

Modifié par Merced256, 14 octobre 2010 - 05:38 .

[tmp7704]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

When we talk about "shuffling", we usually use the term to refer to the side-step pathfinding and rotating behavior that DAO characters would engage in before starting their attack animations. In DA2, melee characters using basic attacks from outside medium range still need to run toward their target and close the gap before using the appropriate closing attack. No shuffling required.

Yup, i was using it more generally to also include the conga line behaviour when the characters would form a train behind their running target, never really able to land that intended blow until the target was kind enough to stop (typically to conk the squishy guy you'd want to protect)  Just a difference in exact definition of the term.

Modifié par tmp7704, 14 octobre 2010 - 05:35 .

[Seb Hanlon]

Merced256 wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Yeah, the shuffle is pretty much gone. Charging into combat is a default ability, you don't need to do anything special to close with a foe besides attack.
Have I not made my views on shuffling clear?

I guess the impression it's still very much present comes from the characters in video spending some time running about the screen rather than "warp-attack" from target to target and since the running appears to be done in that hunched position very similar to DAO, and the shuffling essentially was characters running... well, visually, it's still there if the player doesn't utilize their warp ability 100% of time.

That made me wonder btw, what is the range of the charge thing? I mean, can it be used to close to enemy at max range (50m away) instantly, or does it require for player and their target to be closer?

The closing attacks (distance-specific variations on the basic attack) are available inside medium range -- five meters or so away from your target. Depending on where you are inside that range, different animations and timing are used to make the attack fit the distance to the target.

edit: The warrior's "charge" ability has a longer range, but takes more time to execute and cools down/consumes stamina like any other ability. It still doesn't warp across the map.

Wait... Can you clarify a bit on what you mean by distance specific variations of the basic attack? My interpretation is that if you auto-attack(or hell lets say any attack besides the ability "charge") a target outside of the required distance that triggers a closing attack animation where you... warp to your target?

As I said earlier, the basic attacks ("auto-attack" on the PC, A-button attacks on the consoles) can be performed within about five meters of your target. Using the example of the two-handed warrior, if you're at close melee range (right next to your target), we choose from a set of standing swing animations. If your target is just outside reach, we'll use an animation where the character will step and swing at the same time to cover that extra distance and allow you to continue attacking with close melee attacks. If the distance is a little longer (within the five-meter range), we use variations on the style of the basic attack animation that cover more distance. We call these "closing attacks".

If you use the basic attack from further away, your character will need to run toward the target first before using a closing attack.

[Merced256]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Yeah, the shuffle is pretty much gone. Charging into combat is a default ability, you don't need to do anything special to close with a foe besides attack.
Have I not made my views on shuffling clear?

I guess the impression it's still very much present comes from the characters in video spending some time running about the screen rather than "warp-attack" from target to target and since the running appears to be done in that hunched position very similar to DAO, and the shuffling essentially was characters running... well, visually, it's still there if the player doesn't utilize their warp ability 100% of time.

That made me wonder btw, what is the range of the charge thing? I mean, can it be used to close to enemy at max range (50m away) instantly, or does it require for player and their target to be closer?

The closing attacks (distance-specific variations on the basic attack) are available inside medium range -- five meters or so away from your target. Depending on where you are inside that range, different animations and timing are used to make the attack fit the distance to the target.

edit: The warrior's "charge" ability has a longer range, but takes more time to execute and cools down/consumes stamina like any other ability. It still doesn't warp across the map.

Wait... Can you clarify a bit on what you mean by distance specific variations of the basic attack? My interpretation is that if you auto-attack(or hell lets say any attack besides the ability "charge") a target outside of the required distance that triggers a closing attack animation where you... warp to your target?

As I said earlier, the basic attacks ("auto-attack" on the PC, A-button attacks on the consoles) can be performed within about five meters of your target. Using the example of the two-handed warrior, if you're at close melee range (right next to your target), we choose from a set of standing swing animations. If your target is just outside reach, we'll use an animation where the character will step and swing at the same time to cover that extra distance and allow you to continue attacking with close melee attacks. If the distance is a little longer (within the five-meter range), we use variations on the style of the basic attack animation that cover more distance. We call these "closing attacks".

If you use the basic attack from further away, your character will need to run toward the target first before using a closing attack.

Thanks that makes more sense. Now i just need to see how 5m scales in game.

[tmp7704]

Oh some other thing, while on this subject. With the "shuffling" being just the 'side-step around each other to try and find the spot from which to finally attack'... does this new behaviour actually address that? I mean, closing the short distance part with the animation, i get it... but does it work like, is the game pre-calculating where to put the character so they can actually attack from there instantly or is there still some confusion happening if there's multiple characters packed tight together and/or someone moves from a spot to slightly different place which makes the originally planned attack not possible, by the time the character gets in position from where they planned to execute that attack?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Yeah, the shuffle is pretty much gone. Charging into combat is a default ability, you don't need to do anything special to close with a foe besides attack.
Have I not made my views on shuffling clear?

I guess the impression it's still very much present comes from the characters in video spending some time running about the screen rather than "warp-attack" from target to target and since the running appears to be done in that hunched position very similar to DAO, and the shuffling essentially was characters running... well, visually, it's still there if the player doesn't utilize their warp ability 100% of time.

That made me wonder btw, what is the range of the charge thing? I mean, can it be used to close to enemy at max range (50m away) instantly, or does it require for player and their target to be closer?

The closing attacks (distance-specific variations on the basic attack) are available inside medium range -- five meters or so away from your target. Depending on where you are inside that range, different animations and timing are used to make the attack fit the distance to the target.

edit: The warrior's "charge" ability has a longer range, but takes more time to execute and cools down/consumes stamina like any other ability. It still doesn't warp across the map.

Wait... Can you clarify a bit on what you mean by distance specific variations of the basic attack? My interpretation is that if you auto-attack(or hell lets say any attack besides the ability "charge") a target outside of the required distance that triggers a closing attack animation where you... warp to your target?

As I said earlier, the basic attacks ("auto-attack" on the PC, A-button attacks on the consoles) can be performed within about five meters of your target. Using the example of the two-handed warrior, if you're at close melee range (right next to your target), we choose from a set of standing swing animations. If your target is just outside reach, we'll use an animation where the character will step and swing at the same time to cover that extra distance and allow you to continue attacking with close melee attacks. If the distance is a little longer (within the five-meter range), we use variations on the style of the basic attack animation that cover more distance. We call these "closing attacks".

If you use the basic attack from further away, your character will need to run toward the target first before using a closing attack.

So does that mean the "teleport" looking closing animation has been cleaned up a bit in the current build?

[Faz432]

I've just seen the rogue gameplay video on youtube and all I can say is, what the flippin hell!!?

I was upset when I heard they had taken away being able to play Elves or Dwarfs, I was miffed when I heard they taken away DW warrior, I was confused when I heard the game would be shorter, I was in disbelief when I saw the crazy warrior gameplay BUT THIS, this is just flipping crazy!

Unless the official gameplay trailer (whenever it comes out) blows my mind I think I'll just be getting The Witcher 2.

Modifié par Faz432, 17 octobre 2010 - 01:26 .

[Dr. wonderful]

bah, Is witcher that good?

Also you crying about a game that is STILL in development. If it was done, well, you would of had a point.

Modifié par Dr. wonderful, 17 octobre 2010 - 01:34 .

[Faz432]

Dr. wonderful wrote...

bah, Is witcher that good?

Also you crying about a game that is STILL in development. If it was done, well, you would of had a point.

5 months till release, how much in actual gameplay changes do you think will happen between now and then, considering also they'll probably be finished on the game a fair few weeks before actual release with all the certificate stuff they need to do for Xbox and PS3 and what have you. My guess between now and then will mostly be graphical.

This is DA2 that Bioware is presenting to the gaming world, they wouldn't present one thing for it to be fundamentally changed on release in a relatively short time.

And yes I suggest you give it a go.

Also if you haven't seen the video I'm talking about you should.

Modifié par Faz432, 17 octobre 2010 - 01:54 .

[Dr. wonderful]

Faz432 wrote...

Dr. wonderful wrote...

bah, Is witcher that good?

Also you crying about a game that is STILL in development. If it was done, well, you would of had a point.

5 months till release, how much in actual gameplay changes do you think will happen between now and then, This is DA2 that Bioware is presenting to the gaming world, they wouldn't present one thing for it to be fundamentally changed on release in a relatively short time.

 We only saw, what, the Verric dream part? I mean, that all ANY one saw, apart from the few who got to play it. I'm just saying, I rather see more of the game passed flemeth then just see the Opening.


And also, I'm thinking of getting witcher 2.

[AtreiyaN7]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I appreciate the improved animations/speed rather than having my characters shuffle around like they need joint-replacement surgery.

Too bad they still shuffle around half the time, then (whenever the blink moves are on cooldown i'd guess?) Wonder if it ends up pissing off both camps since both get to experience the aspects of gameplay that supposedly irk them...

I've heard it's not entirely gone, but as long as it's better than it was any improvement is welcome. However, even if they are still shuffling a lot, it doesn't bother me. Heck, maybe it'll make some people happy & they can zip it over the ridiculous argument that it's hack & slash just because some things look zippier. Yes, sorry to disappoint you that I won't be one of those people irked, regardless of the outcome.

Yeah, the shuffle is pretty much gone. Charging into combat is a default ability, you don't need to do anything special to close with a foe besides attack.
Have I not made my views on shuffling clear?

ZOMG - A DEV! 

*faints*
*squees*
*faints*

Dang, if only I'd seen this sooner, I could've gotten in on that shuffleboard game with you and Dave - doh! *shakes fist at her pesky work inbox*

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 17 octobre 2010 - 03:05 .

[Dhiro]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I appreciate the improved animations/speed rather than having my characters shuffle around like they need joint-replacement surgery.

Too bad they still shuffle around half the time, then (whenever the blink moves are on cooldown i'd guess?) Wonder if it ends up pissing off both camps since both get to experience the aspects of gameplay that supposedly irk them...

I've heard it's not entirely gone, but as long as it's better than it was any improvement is welcome. However, even if they are still shuffling a lot, it doesn't bother me. Heck, maybe it'll make some people happy & they can zip it over the ridiculous argument that it's hack & slash just because some things look zippier. Yes, sorry to disappoint you that I won't be one of those people irked, regardless of the outcome.

Yeah, the shuffle is pretty much gone. Charging into combat is a default ability, you don't need to do anything special to close with a foe besides attack.
Have I not made my views on shuffling clear?

ZOMG - A DEV! 

*faints*
*squees*
*faints*

Dang, if only I'd seen this sooner, I could've gotten in on that shuffleboard game with you and Dave - doh! *shakes fist at her pesky work inbox*

Wait until you see Gaider. He's so much fun and rainbows that his coffee machine only works with smiles.

[Hollingdale]

Does anyone honestly think TW2 combat looks good? I mean hollywood action movie fights... come on.

The Shuffling was the main weak point of DA:O's combat, now that it's gone things can only get better.

Modifié par Hollingdale, 17 octobre 2010 - 03:32 .

[abat223]

i was just playing one of my warriors in DA:A and my warden was walking forward and back in a jitter motion trying to hit a darkspawn for 20 seconds.. i'll take the new combat system any day

[Gvaz]

Two Worlds 2 if its anything like the first game its gonna be goty. Believe it.