402 réponses à ce sujet

[Dhiro]

I see why someone would like Dark Fantasy, but I don't see why DA need to be Dark Fantasy. In my opinion the game is fine the way he is. But to be fair, I'm really soft, so things like broodmother kinda didn't help me to sleep =P

[DarthCaine]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Beserk-dark is just too brutal for a large portion of gamers. Origins already has some of the Beserk-dark elements (Broodmothers and such) and that's already left some female gamers I know freaking out because they didn't know they would likely turn into that if they were captured ingame.

And in the other thread people were also disgusted of incest, since they couldn't imagine it in a game like DAO.

[DarthCaine]

Dhiro wrote...

I see why someone would like Dark Fantasy, but I don't see why DA need to be Dark Fantasy. In my opinion the game is fine the way he is. But to be fair, I'm really soft, so things like broodmother kinda didn't help me to sleep =P

I never said it had to be dark fantasy, just that it isn't one. That's the point of the whole thread. I like DAO just fine, but it's high fantasy and nothing more. The dark mature part is just marketing BS

[Sir JK]

I don't really object to labelling DAO as dark heroic fantasy, it certainly is. It deals with very dark and mature themes, but that is not what makes it dark. What truly makes it dark is that it makes these things fit into the world and make them a part of it's everyday.

Vaughn doesn't make the game dark because he rapes Shianni (or is implied to) but that the game presents it that this is actually not an aberattion in the world, but something that can be expected to happen. Loghain doesn't make the game dark because he abandons the army at Ostagar, but because he does for what he sees as the good of the nation and that he has qualms about it.

Slavery doesn't make the game dark, but the fact that people accept it. And not because they fear the slavers, but because they simply don't care.

The templars doesn't make the game dark for holding the mages semi-prisoners, but that they do it because they genuinely think it is the right thing to do. And we are shown that they are not completely in the wrong. The castesystem doesn't make the game dark, but how the dwarves think of it and handle it does.



In a way, what makes DAO dark ins't that it brings up dark themes. But that it tries to portray it as real life. It is a part of the world, created by human (or elven/dwarven) weakness, sloth, shortsightedness or plain apathy.



To me there is also one thing that makes it dark above all others. Something I thbink many other dark fantasy lack. Unlike the witcher, Warhammer and other dark settings... Thedas has hope. A contrast to all the dark. That it is indeed possible to choose the better option and succeed. But that humanity as a whole doesn't take it and largely... doesn't even try.



Besides... saying that DAO isn't dark by comparing it to warhammer, the witcher or the like... that's like saying that LotR isn't high fantasy because Eberron is too.

[Dhiro]

DarthCaine wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

I see why someone would like Dark Fantasy, but I don't see why DA need to be Dark Fantasy. In my opinion the game is fine the way he is. But to be fair, I'm really soft, so things like broodmother kinda didn't help me to sleep =P

I never said it had to be dark fantasy, just that it isn't one. That's the point of the whole thread. I like DAO just fine, but it's high fantasy and nothing more. The dark mature part is just marketing BS

Oh, that. I didn't know that the market was saying that DA is a dark fantasy. To me, kinda it is. Not as much as The Witcher, but still dark fantasy, in some way. But I can see why people want a darker game.

[tmp7704]

DarthCaine wrote...

And in the other thread people were also disgusted of incest, since they couldn't imagine it in a game like DAO.

It's more they are simply disgusted by the idea of incest, period. Just like they're disgusted by rape no matter if it's alleged/present in the game or not, and by other morally questionable activities.

Modifié par tmp7704, 16 octobre 2010 - 01:33 .

[ENolan]

I'm still waiting for someone to respond like:



It's soooooooo dark that....



Then we are all entitled to go: "How dark is it?"



[Plays Rimshot]

[Thunderfox]

IMO the darkness question is a cultural thing. The Europeans are saying no it's it not dark at all and north Americans saying it kind of is. At least thats what I've gotten generally from the thread



Oh and I attack the darkness with Magic Missile

[Addai]

DarthCaine wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

I see why someone would like Dark Fantasy, but I don't see why DA need to be Dark Fantasy. In my opinion the game is fine the way he is. But to be fair, I'm really soft, so things like broodmother kinda didn't help me to sleep =P

I never said it had to be dark fantasy, just that it isn't one. That's the point of the whole thread. I like DAO just fine, but it's high fantasy and nothing more. The dark mature part is just marketing BS

Even supposing that is true, why exactly do you care??

[DarthCaine]

Addai67 wrote...

Even supposing that is true, why exactly do you care??

It's the internet, what else are we gonna do unless debate.

People argue all the time whether ME2 is an RPG. Same goes with religious arguments. This one is no different

[AlexXIV]

DarthCaine wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Even supposing that is true, why exactly do you care??

It's the internet, what else are we gonna do unless debate.

People argue all the time whether ME2 is an RPG. Same goes with religious arguments. This one is no different

You're not debating, you're whining. Simply because there are enough posts clearly stating why DA:O is dark fantasy and not high fantasy but you don't even acknowledge them. The BS in this thread mostly comes from you.

[DarthCaine]

AlexXIV wrote...

You're not debating, you're whining.

lol, and you're whining about me whining.

Try reading all the posts, you'll see that most people don't think it's dark fantasy.

Simply because there are enough posts clearly stating why DA:O is dark fantasy and not high fantasy but you don't even acknowledge them. The BS in this thread mostly comes from you

And I posted enough counter posts clearly stating why DAO is not dark fantasy but you don't even acknowledge them.
It's like trying to tell a Christian that God doesn't exist, he'll think of you as crazy, and keep believing in a book filled with magic, monsters and witches.

Try debating with someone in the ME forums that ME2 is an RPG, see if you'll be able to ever convince them (and before you say that's what I'm like, remember that the same also applies to you)

There's a clear definition on wikipedia of what dark fantasy is, and DAO doesn't fit it.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 17 octobre 2010 - 01:31 .

[Lord_Valandil]

I cannot believe that this thread is still open, soon we will fall into a "What's a real RPG?" discussion.

Gaider already said that there won't be rape, killing of children, constant murders, cannibals and "there won't be a happy ending" sort of things.

People who want those elements, only need to read a newspaper...or play the Witcher.



I could use some nudity, though...because the underwear is...well, you know my opinion about that.

But really, how many pages do we need to continue until the LOCKDOWN?

[TheMadCat]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

I cannot believe that this thread is still open, soon we will fall into a "What's a real RPG?" discussion.
Gaider already said that there won't be rape, killing of children, constant murders, cannibals and "there won't be a happy ending" sort of things.
People who want those elements, only need to read a newspaper...or play the Witcher.

I could use some nudity, though...because the underwear is...well, you know my opinion about that.
But really, how many pages do we need to continue until the LOCKDOWN?

Until it dives into something no longer within the realm of Dragon Age 2. Just because your not interested in the thread doesn't mean it no longers serves a purpose. This is a DA2 General Discussion forum,  and we're having a discussion. Don't like it don't read it.

[slumlord722]

It's obvious that DA needs more GRIMDARK



In the GRIM DARKNESS of Dragon Age, there is only Wa - GRIM DARKNESS

[Lord_Valandil]

TheMadCat wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

I cannot believe that this thread is still open, soon we will fall into a "What's a real RPG?" discussion.
Gaider already said that there won't be rape, killing of children, constant murders, cannibals and "there won't be a happy ending" sort of things.
People who want those elements, only need to read a newspaper...or play the Witcher.

I could use some nudity, though...because the underwear is...well, you know my opinion about that.
But really, how many pages do we need to continue until the LOCKDOWN?

Until it dives into something no longer within the realm of Dragon Age 2. Just because your not interested in the thread doesn't mean it no longers serves a purpose. This is a DA2 General Discussion forum,  and we're having a discussion. Don't like it don't read it.

Oh, wow. You don't need to read me the rules, calm down man.
As you said, this is a general discussion forum, and that's my opinion. Don't like it? That's fine.
I'm not saying that everyone should think like me (and boy, they really shouldn't).

[TheMadCat]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

I cannot believe that this thread is still open, soon we will fall into a "What's a real RPG?" discussion.
Gaider already said that there won't be rape, killing of children, constant murders, cannibals and "there won't be a happy ending" sort of things.
People who want those elements, only need to read a newspaper...or play the Witcher.

I could use some nudity, though...because the underwear is...well, you know my opinion about that.
But really, how many pages do we need to continue until the LOCKDOWN?

Until it dives into something no longer within the realm of Dragon Age 2. Just because your not interested in the thread doesn't mean it no longers serves a purpose. This is a DA2 General Discussion forum,  and we're having a discussion. Don't like it don't read it.

Oh, wow. You don't need to read me the rules, calm down man.
As you said, this is a general discussion forum, and that's my opinion. Don't like it? That's fine.
I'm not saying that everyone should think like me (and boy, they really shouldn't).

But your opinions of "I cannot believe this thread is still open" and "How many pages do we need to continue until the lockdown" isn't exactly within the subject area of this thread, kind of making the opinion useless.

[tmp7704]

DarthCaine wrote...

There's a clear definition on wikipedia of what dark fantasy is, and DAO doesn't fit it.

It was pointed out in this very thread that even the wikipedia definition is actually broader than some would want to acknowledge.

David Gaider wrote...

If you're going to quote from Wikipedia, I'm suggest reading the rest of the article... in particular the part where this subgenre isn't clearly defined, and the "tending towards horror" and "tending towards fantasy" sections.

Specifically:

Dark fantasy in this context (tending towards fantasy) refers to stories that focus on darker themes, sometimes akin to those of horror, but which take place in a setting more like sword and sorcery or high fantasy. In this sense, dark fantasy is usually considered a sub-genre of fantasy.

please, tell how the DAO doesn't fit this aspect of the very definition you bring up as proof.

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 octobre 2010 - 01:46 .

[DarthCaine]

tmp7704 wrote...

please, tell how the DAO doesn't fit this aspect of the very definition you bring up as proof.

DarthCaine wrote...

Tending towards fantasy:

...
There is a strong overlap between this style of fantasy and sword and sorcery, due to the often bleak, pessimistic tones, and moral ambiguity (especially when compared to the more dualistic themes of high fantasy).

Dark fantasy is also used to refer to "grittier" fantasy, conducted in settings which represent the brutality of the medieval period of most fantasy ...

Modifié par DarthCaine, 17 octobre 2010 - 01:49 .

[TheMadCat]

That depends entirely on what one considers to be "Darker Themes".

[tmp7704]

TheMadCat wrote...

That depends entirely on what one considers to be "Darker Themes".

Precisely. If slavery, oppression, racism and human selfishness to name just a few aren't "darker" themes... well.

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 octobre 2010 - 01:52 .

[DarthCaine]

tmp7704 wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

That depends entirely on what one considers to be "Darker Themes".

Precisely. If slavery, oppression, racism and human selfishness to name just a few aren't "darker" themes... well.

My point is, lots of other games like NwN2 and Fable have used those themes and nobody would call them "dark fantasy" (mostly because they didn't market themselves as ones).

Hell almost every high fantasy setting uses those themes. So by your definition every fantasy setting is actually dark fantasy, negating the existence of high fantasy

Modifié par DarthCaine, 17 octobre 2010 - 01:58 .

[Lord_Valandil]

TheMadCat wrote...
But your opinions of "I cannot believe this thread is still open" and "How many pages do we need to continue until the lockdown" isn't exactly within the subject area of this thread, kind of making the opinion useless.

Ok, you're right. It's just that sometimes it amazes me when a dev actually answers and says "That won't happen", and yet, the thread continues for 10+ pages.
And when the discussion devolves into a "Witcher is darker than DA" discussion, it generally gets locked.

But, oh well. I don't think that DA needs to be like The Witcher (I'm fine without that ridiculous sex cards), although I'll always agree with the nudity bit (seriously...the underwear is lame), excessive/gratuitous violence and a bleak/depressing plot aren't between my personal preferences.
Neither rainbows and bunnies, but I think you get the idea.

[tmp7704]

DarthCaine wrote...

My point is, lots of other games like NwN2 and Fable have used those themes and nobody would call them "dark fantasy" (mostly because they didn't market themselves as ones)

But if these games also meet that definition then yes, you can call them "dark fantasy" no matter if they actually marketed themselves as such.

Although personally i don't recall Fable to really fit this concept though, the duality of good/evil it presented was very cartoon-like (similar to say, Star Wars) and as such being more of the regular "high fantasy" variety. NWN2 i haven't played, so can't comment how well it fits.

[Lord_Valandil]

tmp7704 wrote...
Although personally i don't recall Fable to really fit this concept though, the duality of good/evil it presented was very cartoon-like (similar to say, Star Wars) and as such being more of the regular "high fantasy" variety.

I agree. I mean...eating chicken makes you evil, and eating tofu makes you pure.
Also...many of the choices were very "cartoony/basic", "Killing is bad, saving people is good, stealing is baaaad", and that sort of stuff. And don't get me started with the ridiculous horns...

I really like the Fable series (and cannot wait for Fable III), but...it's hardly "dark fantasy".

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 17 octobre 2010 - 02:04 .