402 réponses à ce sujet

[tool_bot]

I'm not sure what dark fantasy means but I wouldn't call Dragon Age dark. It just doesn't have the oppresive soul crushing world I expect from 'dark' games. There isn't much in Thedas that's any darker then what you'd find in FFXII and that's definitely not a 'dark' game. The colors are just a bit brighter.

[DarthCaine]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

It's just that sometimes it amazes me when a dev actually answers and says "That won't happen", and yet, the thread continues for 10+ pages

Like I said I like DA just fine and it doesn't need those themes, but it isn't dark fantasy.

tmp7704 wrote...

But if these games also meet that definition then yes, you can call them "dark fantasy" no matter if they actually marketed themselves as such.

Those games aren't dark fantasy and neither is DAO. Almost every high fantasy game uses those themes. Read my edited response.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 17 octobre 2010 - 02:07 .

[Lord_Valandil]

tool_bot wrote...

I'm not sure what dark fantasy means but I wouldn't call Dragon Age dark. It just doesn't have the oppresive soul crushing world I expect from 'dark' games. There isn't much in Thedas that's any darker then what you'd find in FFXII and that's definitely not a 'dark' game. The colors are just a bit brighter.

Oh, come on. Dragon Age may not be the darkest of the dark, but it's certainly darker than any Final Fantasy.

[tool_bot]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

I'm not sure what dark fantasy means but I wouldn't call Dragon Age dark. It just doesn't have the oppresive soul crushing world I expect from 'dark' games. There isn't much in Thedas that's any darker then what you'd find in FFXII and that's definitely not a 'dark' game. The colors are just a bit brighter.

Oh, come on. Dragon Age may not be the darkest of the dark, but it's certainly darker than any Final Fantasy.

Have you ever played Final Fantasy Tactics? The first one on the playstation? That had a much more oppressive atmosphere then Dragon Age. The politics were also much more messy.

[Addai]

DarthCaine wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Even supposing that is true, why exactly do you care??

It's the internet, what else are we gonna do unless debate.

People argue all the time whether ME2 is an RPG. Same goes with religious arguments. This one is no different

Some arguments are more useless/ tedious than others.  I think we've got this subject covered, or we would if you would accept that people's interpretations of the term differ and you're not some kind of authority.  Though I'm wondering if you've got some kind of deal to promote The Witcher or something.

[tmp7704]

DarthCaine wrote...

Those games aren't dark fantasy and neither is DAO. Almost every high fantasy game uses those themes. Read my edited response.

The difference can boil down to how these themes are used. In high fantasy setting slavery is bad, oppression is bad, racism is bad, and good folks rally against moustache-twirling villain who rules his land with iron fist and pours twisted orcs out of Mount Doom to try and destroy the World as we Know It™

In dark fantasy slavery, oppression, racism and these other themes are everyday facts of life and they won't cause average person as much as raise an eyebrow, let alone go up in arms to fight it.

I don't think you could make a point that DAO is more like former as opposed to the latter.

[Ryzaki]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

I'm not sure what dark fantasy means but I wouldn't call Dragon Age dark. It just doesn't have the oppresive soul crushing world I expect from 'dark' games. There isn't much in Thedas that's any darker then what you'd find in FFXII and that's definitely not a 'dark' game. The colors are just a bit brighter.

Oh, come on. Dragon Age may not be the darkest of the dark, but it's certainly darker than any Final Fantasy.

Yes after all working with a terroist group and killing innocent civilians is all sunshine and rainbows.

[tool_bot]

tmp7704 wrote...

In dark fantasy slavery, oppression, racism and these other themes are everyday facts of life and they won't cause average person as much as raise an eyebrow, let alone go up in arms to fight it.

There's nothing particularly dark about that. 'Realistic' maybe but not dark.

Not saying that's a bad thing, though or holding anything against Origins. I still loved the game and wouldn't change much of it save maybe for the Circle and Fade sections to give them more of a mind ****.

[Lord_Valandil]

Ryzaki wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

I'm not sure what dark fantasy means but I wouldn't call Dragon Age dark. It just doesn't have the oppresive soul crushing world I expect from 'dark' games. There isn't much in Thedas that's any darker then what you'd find in FFXII and that's definitely not a 'dark' game. The colors are just a bit brighter.

Oh, come on. Dragon Age may not be the darkest of the dark, but it's certainly darker than any Final Fantasy.

Yes after all working with a terroist group and killing innocent civilians is all sunshine and rainbows.

Oh, please.
Killing innocent civilians? Even Grand Theft Auto excels at that.
In Awakening, you can leave the town of Amaranthine to the Darkspawn, it burns, innocent people die, so yeah...

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 17 octobre 2010 - 02:18 .

[Ryzaki]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

I'm not sure what dark fantasy means but I wouldn't call Dragon Age dark. It just doesn't have the oppresive soul crushing world I expect from 'dark' games. There isn't much in Thedas that's any darker then what you'd find in FFXII and that's definitely not a 'dark' game. The colors are just a bit brighter.

Oh, come on. Dragon Age may not be the darkest of the dark, but it's certainly darker than any Final Fantasy.

Yes after all working with a terroist group and killing innocent civilians is all sunshine and rainbows.

Oh, please.
Killing innocent civilians? Even Grand Theft Auto excels at that.

BTW: Slavery is looked down upon in Fereldan. So much for DA being Dark. :innocent:

Dragon Age has a few moments of darkness but no where near enough to be considered "really dark" especially considering the fact that most of the dark choices you make are either not fully expanded upon, or there was a solution that circumvented a majority of said "darkness".

Edit: In FF YOU cause the death of several thousands civilians by helping a terroist group.

Which the game never decides to expand upon. Either. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 octobre 2010 - 02:20 .

[tool_bot]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Oh, please.
Killing innocent civilians? Even Grand Theft Auto excels at that.

If we're going to be going off the definitions provided, then several FF games fit the bill.

[Lord_Valandil]

Ryzaki wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

I'm not sure what dark fantasy means but I wouldn't call Dragon Age dark. It just doesn't have the oppresive soul crushing world I expect from 'dark' games. There isn't much in Thedas that's any darker then what you'd find in FFXII and that's definitely not a 'dark' game. The colors are just a bit brighter.

Oh, come on. Dragon Age may not be the darkest of the dark, but it's certainly darker than any Final Fantasy.

Yes after all working with a terroist group and killing innocent civilians is all sunshine and rainbows.

Oh, please.
Killing innocent civilians? Even Grand Theft Auto excels at that.

BTW: Slavery is looked down upon in Fereldan. So much for DA being Dark. :innocent:

Hmmm...
Before someone labels me as a "Final Fantasy hater" (which I'm not), I really find it hard to believe that you people are actually comparing Final Fantasy to Dragon Age.
That's like comparing Teletubbies to The Sopranos.

[tool_bot]

Lord_Valandil wrote...
In Awakening, you can leave the town of Amaranthine to the Darkspawn, it burns, innocent people die, so yeah...

I'll see that and raise you just about anything in FFX.

[Ryzaki]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

I'm not sure what dark fantasy means but I wouldn't call Dragon Age dark. It just doesn't have the oppresive soul crushing world I expect from 'dark' games. There isn't much in Thedas that's any darker then what you'd find in FFXII and that's definitely not a 'dark' game. The colors are just a bit brighter.

Oh, come on. Dragon Age may not be the darkest of the dark, but it's certainly darker than any Final Fantasy.

Yes after all working with a terroist group and killing innocent civilians is all sunshine and rainbows.

Oh, please.
Killing innocent civilians? Even Grand Theft Auto excels at that.

BTW: Slavery is looked down upon in Fereldan. So much for DA being Dark. :innocent:

Hmmm...
Before someone labels me as a "Final Fantasy hater" (which I'm not), I really find it hard to believe that you people are actually comparing Final Fantasy to Dragon Age.
That's like comparing Teletubbies to The Sopranos.

...Have you played all the Final Fantasy games? Like seriously? 

Anything you consider dark in DA can just the same apply for Final Fantasy Edit: Whoops I meant FF not DA O_O

Hell it can apply for KINGDOM HEARTS!

Edit: Okay fine KH is stretching it.

But FF certainly fits the same bill for aleged darkness as DA

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 octobre 2010 - 02:24 .

[Sigma Tauri]

tmp7704 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Those games aren't dark fantasy and neither is DAO. Almost every high fantasy game uses those themes. Read my edited response.

The difference can boil down to how these themes are used. In high fantasy setting slavery is bad, oppression is bad, racism is bad, and good folks rally against moustache-twirling villain who rules his land with iron fist and pours twisted orcs out of Mount Doom to try and destroy the World as we Know It™

In dark fantasy slavery, oppression, racism and these other themes are everyday facts of life and they won't cause average person as much as raise an eyebrow, let alone go up in arms to fight it.

I don't think you could make a point that DAO is more like former as opposed to the latter.

Hehe. Dark fantasy won't depict slavery, oppression, and racism good just because it's dark. You make it sound like as if authors have to choose whether to portray their world as Zion or Sodom.

There isn't even an either-or situation. Morrowind had all those you mentioned in dark fantasy, but it doesn't count as one.

[DarthCaine]

Addai67 wrote...

I think we've got this subject covered, or we would if you would accept that people's interpretations of the term differ and you're not some kind of authority.

There's a clear definition of what dark fantasy is. "A Song of Ice and Fire" and "The Witcher saga" are dark fantasy. DAO is clearly not even close to their level of darkness.

Though I'm wondering if you've got some kind of deal to promote The Witcher or something.

They both advertise themselves as dark fantasy which is why all the comparisons. If there were other dark fantasy games I would have made comparisons to them too.

Maybe in a few years if I manage to get a job in the gaming industry you'll see a proper dark game.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 17 octobre 2010 - 02:23 .

[tool_bot]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Hmmm...
Before someone labels me as a "Final Fantasy hater" (which I'm not), I really find it hard to believe that you people are actually comparing Final Fantasy to Dragon Age.
That's like comparing Teletubbies to The Sopranos.

Meh. I found the politics in FFXII more interesting and the worlds of FF Tactics and FFX way more oppressive then Ferelden.

It was the characters that sold me on Dragon Age.

[tool_bot]

DarthCaine wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I think we've got this subject covered, or we would if you would accept that people's interpretations of the term differ and you're not some kind of authority.

There's a clear definition of what dark fantasy is. "A Song of Ice and Fire" and "The Witcher saga" are dark fantasy. DAO is clearly not even close to their level of darkness.

I'm going to have to learn Polish. Maybe then I'll understand what's so great about the game. 

[tmp7704]

tool_bot wrote...

There's nothing particularly dark about that. 'Realistic' maybe but not dark.

I'm under impression the term is very much relative and intended to simply indicate difference from high fantasy -- it's "dark" because it's not all sunshine and rainbows. It doesn't mean necessity of nothing but pitch-black, since grey is also "dark" compared to full white of idealized settings.

[DarthCaine]

tool_bot wrote...

I'm going to have to learn Polish. Maybe then I'll understand what's so great about the game. 

I can't speak Polish, I've only read the two english translated ones. Mind you, I prefered the DA books more (but in terms of the games, TW>DAO). I was just pointing out which is dark fantasy, not which is better

Modifié par DarthCaine, 17 octobre 2010 - 02:27 .

[Meltemph]

Dark fantasy, I thought normally has a element of horror to it? I guess the horror part is a bit subjective,  but you could consider the Broodmother or the sacrifice horror and other Demon related events as horror/fantasy mix. Dark Fantasy does not have to be about horror to be considered Dark Fantasy, I don't think.

I mean, if Buffy can be considered Dark Fantasy, I don't see why DA can't be considered it as well.

Modifié par Meltemph, 17 octobre 2010 - 02:27 .

[Sigma Tauri]

Meltemph wrote...

Dark fantasy, I thought normally has a element of horror to it? I guess the horror part is a bit subjective,  but you could consider the Broodmother or the sacrifice horror and other Demon related events as horror/fantasy mix. Dark Fantasy does not have to be about horror to be considered Dark Fantasy, I don't think.

I mean, if Buffy can be considered Dark Fantasy, I don't see why DA can't be considered it as well.

Well, there's Diablo.

[DarthCaine]

Meltemph wrote...

Dark fantasy, I thought normally has a element of horror to it? I guess the horror part is a bit subjective,  but you could consider the Broodmother or the sacrifice horror and other Demon related events as horror/fantasy mix. Dark Fantasy does not have to be about horror to be considered Dark Fantasy, I don't think.

I mean, if Buffy can be considered Dark Fantasy, I don't see why DA can't be considered it as well.

Yes, well, there's also people that say Twilight and Harry Potter are dark fantasy (check the wiki)

If dark fantasy was only horror, then every single RPG is dark fantasy, since they all contain some kind of monsters

Dark fantasy needs an dark bleak pessimistic atmosphere of depression. DAO has a high fantasy atmosphere of LOTR and DnD.

[tool_bot]

tmp7704 wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

There's nothing particularly dark about that. 'Realistic' maybe but not dark.

I'm under impression the term is very much relative and intended to simply indicate difference from high fantasy -- it's "dark" because it's not all sunshine and rainbows. It doesn't mean necessity of nothing but pitch-black, since grey is also "dark" compared to full white of idealized settings.

Yeah, I see your point. For me dark doesn't imply ambigous moral choices so much as it communicates a certain atmosphere for the setting.

[tool_bot]

Meltemph wrote...

Dark fantasy, I thought normally has a element of horror to it? I guess the horror part is a bit subjective,  but you could consider the Broodmother or the sacrifice horror and other Demon related events as horror/fantasy mix. 

But those were pretty much the only portions of the game I would call dark. Everything else feels more like political intrigue. Which can be dark (if done like Zevran's childhood) but in this case weren't. It really did feel like nobles simply playing games against one another.