402 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Herr Uhl wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Dark fantasy in my book would include: actual on screen rape, torture of children, poverty everywhere, constant murders and robbing, cannibals, lots of blood, nudity, profanity, lots of torture, dark bleak outcomes for EVERY action and in no case a happy ending. (The Witcher fits a lot of these, while DAO loosely fits one or two). Dark fantasy needs an dark bleak atmosphere of depression. DAO has a high fantasy atmosphere of LOTR and DnD

Cannibals? Really?

Yep. After you rape and torture them, you eat them.

[DarthCaine]

Shining Ghost wrote...

I wish it was psychologically dark like Nolan's Batman movies.

That would work too. DAO was more sunshines and rainbows

[DPB]

Yeah, there's a distinction between 'dark' and 'absolutely pitch black.' I don't see why it's necessary to go to such extremes just to fit into a category. If you went that far it would probably end up looking more like self-parody.

[DarthCaine]

leonia42 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I would find your posts more interesting if you weren't constantly promoting The Witcher. These are the Dragon Age 2 forums after all.

Look, I love DAO (and all BioWare games for that matter), but I'm just saying what The Witcher did far better and how BioWare can improve their game

And look, we get it. Your signature says it all. We all know which you prefer. It just gets old when everything is compared to that one game. Different games, different stories, different genres. It is like comparing apples and oranges, sure they are both fruits and delicious but they aren't the same thing and they never will be.

Both BioWare and CD Projekt advertise their games as dark mature fantasy, which is why all the comparisons

[Soul Reaver]

DarthCaine wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Overall I'd say it's dark enough and heroic enough to deserve the name, and apart from people who try to show how clever they are by putting up examples of things they think are darker or better I don't think anyone really cares.

Heroic, yes, I can't deny that. But dark doesn't mean lots of blood and a few mentions of rape. DAO is no more dark than LOTR or DnD.

Dark fantasy in my book would include: actual on screen rape, torture of children, poverty everywhere, constant murders and robbing, cannibals, lots of blood, nudity, drugs and alcohol, profanity, lots of torture, dark bleak outcomes for EVERY action and in no case a happy ending. (The Witcher fits a lot of these, while DAO loosely fits one or two).

Dark fantasy needs an dark bleak atmosphere of depression. DAO has a high fantasy atmosphere of LOTR and DnD.

... I'm gonna walk away now ...

[AlexXIV]

DarthCaine wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I would find your posts more interesting if you weren't constantly promoting The Witcher. These are the Dragon Age 2 forums after all.

Look, I love DAO (and all BioWare games for that matter), but I'm just saying what The Witcher did far better and how BioWare can improve their game

And look, we get it. Your signature says it all. We all know which you prefer. It just gets old when everything is compared to that one game. Different games, different stories, different genres. It is like comparing apples and oranges, sure they are both fruits and delicious but they aren't the same thing and they never will be.

Both BioWare and CD Projekt advertise their games as dark mature fantasy, which is why all the comparisons

Funny though that I bought DA:O but not The Witcher. Maybe CD Projekt are the ones who need to change then.

[DarthCaine]

AlexXIV wrote...

Funny though that I bought DA:O but not The Witcher. Maybe CD Projekt are the ones who need to change then.

Have you even tried it? Just because you fell for EA's uber hyped marketing doesn't mean CD Projekt needs to change.

I'm not saying The Witcher has better gameplay, god no, but the dark atmosphere and bleak outcomes of your choices were the most praised features of The Witcher and EVERYONE that's played and finished both TW and DAO will tell you those things were done far better in TW.

DAO's marketing said there were no evil or good choices, just gray ones, which is complete BS. Almost EVERY choice in DAO was black and white.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 13 octobre 2010 - 03:41 .

[AlexXIV]

DarthCaine wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Funny though that I bought DA:O but not The Witcher. Maybe CD Projekt are the ones who need to change then.

Have you even tried it? Just because you fell for EA's uber hyped marketing doesn't mean CD Projekt needs to change.

I'm not saying The Witcher has better gameplay, god no, but the dark atmosphere and bleak outcomes of your choices were the most praised features of The Witcher and EVERYONE that's played and finished both TW and DAO will tell you those things were done far better in TW.

DAO's marketing said there were no evil or good choices, just gray ones, which is complete BS. Almost EVERY choice in DAO was black and white.

Basically I hate predefined characters. The Witcher is just not my type. So I don't need to try to know that I don't like it.

[Quercus]

AlexXIV wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Funny though that I bought DA:O but not The Witcher. Maybe CD Projekt are the ones who need to change then.

Have you even tried it? Just because you fell for EA's uber hyped marketing doesn't mean CD Projekt needs to change.

I'm not saying The Witcher has better gameplay, god no, but the dark atmosphere and bleak outcomes of your choices were the most praised features of The Witcher and EVERYONE that's played and finished both TW and DAO will tell you those things were done far better in TW.

DAO's marketing said there were no evil or good choices, just gray ones, which is complete BS. Almost EVERY choice in DAO was black and white.

Basically I hate predefined characters. The Witcher is just not my type. So I don't need to try to know that I don't like it.

Guess you wont be playing Dragon age 2 then either .

Also, you as an individual isn't imoprtant enough for CDP to change their genre.

Modifié par Shiroukai, 13 octobre 2010 - 03:53 .

[nightcobra]

Shiroukai wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Funny though that I bought DA:O but not The Witcher. Maybe CD Projekt are the ones who need to change then.

Have you even tried it? Just because you fell for EA's uber hyped marketing doesn't mean CD Projekt needs to change.

I'm not saying The Witcher has better gameplay, god no, but the dark atmosphere and bleak outcomes of your choices were the most praised features of The Witcher and EVERYONE that's played and finished both TW and DAO will tell you those things were done far better in TW.

DAO's marketing said there were no evil or good choices, just gray ones, which is complete BS. Almost EVERY choice in DAO was black and white.

Basically I hate predefined characters. The Witcher is just not my type. So I don't need to try to know that I don't like it.

Guess you wont be playing Dragon age 2 then either .

for me hawke's character is no more predefined as another of DA's origins, i think of it as the human commoner origin we were supposed to get but got cut.

[Addai]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well in that case I am glad Dragon Age is not dark fantasy. If I want to throw up I will just get drunk.

Yes, I agree.  I like stark choices that make you think, but unrelenting bleak for its own sake is rather dull.  What I appreciate about the DA writing is that the characters are really rich.  They make you care about them, so when bad things happen to and through them, it feels harsh.  Emotional engagement and intriguing situations are more important than dark for its own sake.

And while I'm at it, since I often am around the DA2 forums complaining, I'll just say that I love the DA writers' work.  Drat you, and thank you, for making me care about these characters so much. 

[Quercus]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Funny though that I bought DA:O but not The Witcher. Maybe CD Projekt are the ones who need to change then.

Have you even tried it? Just because you fell for EA's uber hyped marketing doesn't mean CD Projekt needs to change.

I'm not saying The Witcher has better gameplay, god no, but the dark atmosphere and bleak outcomes of your choices were the most praised features of The Witcher and EVERYONE that's played and finished both TW and DAO will tell you those things were done far better in TW.

DAO's marketing said there were no evil or good choices, just gray ones, which is complete BS. Almost EVERY choice in DAO was black and white.

Basically I hate predefined characters. The Witcher is just not my type. So I don't need to try to know that I don't like it.

Guess you wont be playing Dragon age 2 then either .

for me hawke's character is no more predefined as another of DA's origins, i think of it as the human commoner origin we were supposed to get but got cut.

Yeah, and Shepard is a human army man from the future.
But if predefined characters are bothering you, and can only play them with an illusion twist around it, I'm not stopping you .

Modifié par Shiroukai, 13 octobre 2010 - 03:57 .

[David Gaider]

DarthCaine wrote...
Dark fantasy in my book would include: actual on screen rape, torture of children, poverty everywhere, constant murders and robbing, cannibals, lots of blood, nudity, sex, drugs and alcohol, profanity, lots of torture, dark bleak outcomes for EVERY action and in no case a happy ending. (The Witcher fits a lot of these, while DAO loosely fits one or two).

Dark fantasy needs an dark bleak atmosphere of depression. DAO has a high fantasy atmosphere of LOTR and DnD.

Errr... okay.

Maybe something needs to be utterly horrific and depressing to be considered "dark" in your books. Fair enough. It's not like there aren't subjective opinions on the definition of categories everywhere on these forums-- all the way up to "RPG" itself.

But what you described there? Not going to happen. And also not an improvement, in my book. It's great that you like the Witcher-- I suggest playing that.

[nightcobra]

and the thing about only being able to choose grey answers that lead to bleak outcomes, as for me i'm not in favor of it as i'm not also in favor of only black & white decisions. i'd rather use the whole spectrum of white, shades of grey and black thank you very much:P

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 13 octobre 2010 - 04:02 .

[AlanC9]

DarthCaine wrote...
I'm not saying The Witcher has better gameplay, god no, but the dark atmosphere and bleak outcomes of your choices were the most praised features of The Witcher and EVERYONE that's played and finished both TW and DAO will tell you those things were done far better in TW.

Did Bio accidentally give you the impression that they were trying to do that in DAO?

[Wulfram]

I liked the general tone of DA:O, but what's annoying is when a dark element is established and then the game doesn't seem to follow through. Like the much debated circle of mages option to deal with Connor's possession, or the lack of actual anti-elven prejudice despite it being a clearly established part of the setting.

[AlexXIV]

Shiroukai wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Funny though that I bought DA:O but not The Witcher. Maybe CD Projekt are the ones who need to change then.

Have you even tried it? Just because you fell for EA's uber hyped marketing doesn't mean CD Projekt needs to change.

I'm not saying The Witcher has better gameplay, god no, but the dark atmosphere and bleak outcomes of your choices were the most praised features of The Witcher and EVERYONE that's played and finished both TW and DAO will tell you those things were done far better in TW.

DAO's marketing said there were no evil or good choices, just gray ones, which is complete BS. Almost EVERY choice in DAO was black and white.

Basically I hate predefined characters. The Witcher is just not my type. So I don't need to try to know that I don't like it.

Guess you wont be playing Dragon age 2 then either .

Also, you as an individual isn't imoprtant enough for CDP to change their genre.

Well you can choose gender, look and class. I don't really like to be tied to a story like Hawke's background but I hope I can still be 'myself' without Hawke's past interferring much. I don't really know what to think about a supposed RPG that doesn't even let you customize your character.

[Sherbet Lemon]

DarthCaine wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Overall I'd say it's dark enough and heroic enough to deserve the name, and apart from people who try to show how clever they are by putting up examples of things they think are darker or better I don't think anyone really cares.

Heroic, yes, I can't deny that. But dark doesn't mean lots of blood and a few mentions of rape. DAO is no more dark than LOTR or DnD.

I swore I wasn't going to do this, but I can't not respond because what can I say, I'm aptly named.  I mean, really?  A few mentions of rape isn't dark enough for you?  I know this was most likely not your intent, but you're trivializing something that is very real for both men and women.  Rape is dark business, and to be honest, I don't think I want to see that on screen.  It was enough to have it implied.  

[Leonia]

"Gosh, why isn't Return of the King as awesome as Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows?"
"They're both fantasy novels."
"Yeah, but JK Rowling totally wrote better than Tolkien. I mean, the book is darker cause it is about an adolescent wielding magic. There were only like 3 wizards in Lord of the Rings."
"But the target audience is a bit different and the stories don't have much in common."
"But they were both advertised as epic fantasy with pew pew magic in them!"
"Which do you like more?"
"Harry Potter; it's much better."
"Why don't you donate your Return of the King book to the local library then and stop trying to compare the two as if they are same thing!"

Modifié par leonia42, 13 octobre 2010 - 04:12 .

[KJandrew]

Will people just stop debating about the Witcher, yes Darth Caine we realize that you like it just stop going on about it. And there is a difference between dark and everyone be raped, tortured, killed and then their bodies sold into slavery.

Modifié par KJandrew, 13 octobre 2010 - 04:16 .

[AlexXIV]

Wulfram wrote...

I liked the general tone of DA:O, but what's annoying is when a dark element is established and then the game doesn't seem to follow through. Like the much debated circle of mages option to deal with Connor's possession, or the lack of actual anti-elven prejudice despite it being a clearly established part of the setting.

Yeah that's true. You should more often be presented a situation where you choose 'the lesser evil' instead of good or bad. I said that before in other threads, I would have liked that for example in the final battle in Denerim you have real choices to make. Like saving the Alienage but sacrificing something else. In DA:O as it is you basically didn't have a real choice, since not saving the Alienage is just a bad idea. You'd only not go there if you hate Elves that much.

[Faz432]

Some parts of DA:O had dark themes mainly the origins like the city elf origin for example, but they faded the further through the game you progressed.



I think DA:O skirted around the edge of dark and mature realism and I certainly wouldn't call it high fantasy, but DA2 seems to be moving further away from that to lighthearted fun fantasy, which is what we are being told.

[Addai]

Faz432 wrote...

Some parts of DA:O had dark themes mainly the origins like the city elf origin for example, but they faded the further through the game you progressed.

I think DA:O skirted around the edge of dark and mature realism and I certainly wouldn't call it high fantasy, but DA2 seems to be moving further away from that to lighthearted fun fantasy, which is what we are being told.

Uh, did you see that screenshot of the Qunari with the chained mages?  Or the templar army?  I'm... not getting a lighthearted fun vibe there.  YMMV!

As for DAO's progression, the Dark Ritual is pretty dark in my book, whether you are a Warden who romanced Morrigan or a female Warden romancing Alistair, to name two examples.

[TheBlackBaron]

DarthCaine wrote...
Dark fantasy in my book would include: actual on screen rape, torture of children, poverty everywhere, constant murders and robbing, cannibals, lots of blood, nudity, sex, drugs and alcohol, profanity, lots of torture, dark bleak outcomes for EVERY action and in no case a happy ending. (The Witcher fits a lot of these, while DAO loosely fits one or two).

Dark fantasy needs an dark bleak atmosphere of depression. DAO has a high fantasy atmosphere of LOTR and DnD.

This game does not need to be WH40K to be on the darker side of the spectrum, mate.

Although come think of it, DA40K could be pretty badass...