402 réponses à ce sujet

[Wyndham711]

I found DA:O to be as advertised: Dark Heroic fantasy. It had the epic proportions with the fate of the world in line, and we always played a heroic character (whether an anti-hero or a 'true' hero). But it also has a relatively low magic world (I'd argue its magic level doesn't much differ from say the Witcher, and I might argue the Witcher may partially have an even higher magic setting, if you consider all the various mythical/magical creatures that enhabit it etc) especially in comparison to something like DnD or Harry Potter.

Furhermore, the setting takes a lot of heed from the kind of fantasy that in a way mixes historical fiction with fantasy - the GRRM kind. It has that realistic sense of causality, detailed history and politics as well as interconnected relations between nations, which are all things that I have no doubt will become even clearer after the release of DA2.

[maxernst]

Merced256 wrote...

maxernst wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

@AlexXIV

I said games not RPGs. By your definition you've never played or liked Half Life, Mario, any GTA game etc etc. If you have played any of these games, by your definition you've hated them since all have a predifined protagonist

Having a predefined protagonist in a game where your character is little more than a killing machine is very different from having one in an RPG.  I've just started playing the Witcher and almost every conversation consists of "click on all the options" until done, and some of them my character spouts a half-dozen lines without me making a single choice.  And that doesn't really feel like roleplaying to me. 

How is this different than ME2? Hell how is that any different than DAO except the character isn't voiced?

It's different from DAO  and ME2 because the dialogue options available to you vary depending on your past choices.  And in many conversations, you have a choice of several responses and once you pick that choice, you can't undo it--the others are lost to you forever. 

I'll admit I haven't gotten very far in the Wticher, but thus far, almost every time I've had a series of dialogue options, I was able to go back and use all of them.  And sometimes my character goes through fairly long conversations without me even clicking.

Modifié par maxernst, 13 octobre 2010 - 07:14 .

[DarthCaine]

@maxernst

If you're only at the start of the Witcher, you have yet to see what grey choices and dark atmosphere means. You'll soon learn how choices and consequences should be handled.

maxernst wrote...

So...what exactly does it mean to be a dark fantasy? Because if you compare it to LOTR, it seems to me that  it's a great deal darker, at least as I understand the term.

DarthCaine wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Overall I'd say it's dark enough and heroic enough to deserve the name, and apart from people who try to show how clever they are by putting up examples of things they think are darker or better I don't think anyone really cares.

Heroic, yes, I can't deny that. But dark doesn't mean lots of blood and a few mentions of rape. DAO is no more dark than LOTR or DnD.

Dark fantasy in my book would include: actual on screen rape, torture of children, poverty everywhere, constant murders and robbing, cannibals, lots of blood, nudity, sex, drugs and alcohol, profanity, lots of torture, dark bleak outcomes for EVERY action and in no case a happy ending. (The Witcher fits a lot of these, while DAO loosely fits one or two).

Dark fantasy needs an dark bleak atmosphere of depression. DAO has a high fantasy atmosphere of LOTR and DnD.

DarthCaine wrote...

DAO's marketing said there were no evil or good choices, just gray ones, which is complete BS. Almost EVERY
choice in DAO was black and white.

DarthCaine wrote...

DAO isn't dark, light, blue or avocado fantasy. It's just a regular high fantasy setting.

Heck, even ME2 was more dark than DAO.

David Gaider wrote...

It's great that you like the Witcher-- I suggest playing that.

I never said DAO isn't a good game, heck it's in my top 5 RPGs and I've no doubt DA2 will also be a great game. Just that it isn't dark fantasy and that BioWare marketing has always been BS.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 13 octobre 2010 - 07:31 .

[KJandrew]

So Darth Caine do you not find stabbing a child with a knife dark enough or the ability to have people killed because they spoke out of turn to me?

[DarthCaine]

KJandrew wrote...

So Darth Caine do you not find stabbing a child with a knife dark enough or the ability to have people killed because they spoke out of turn to me?

I don't remember ever having the option to stab a child. Maybe a demon, but I don't remember a child
As for the ability to have people killed because they spoke out of turn to you, that's pretty much available in EVERY RPG

Modifié par DarthCaine, 13 octobre 2010 - 07:29 .

[JBear]

it seems darker actually

[Addai]

amrose2 wrote...

The problem is, in DA:O, choices are EXTREMELY good and bad. For everything. There is only one morally ambiguous choice in the entire game, which is whether or not you let Balen be the Dwarf king. Even then, you only know you made the wrong choice with Harromont (or whatever his name was, can't remember anymore) in the title cards at the end. It has absolutely 0 effect on your game.

You don't consider the Dark Ritual an ambiguous choice?

Edit - also The Witcher is the only game I have ever seen where children can actually be killed. That certainly doesn't mean you have to kill babies to have a darker game, but still - it sets a truly nasty environment where nobody is safe.

Never killed Connor in your game?

And, as an aside, it is not a little creepy to me that people are hoping to see games where children can die and rape is commonplace.  I play a game in order to have fun first.  I can go jump off a bridge for my own RL reasons.

[thegreateski]

I forced a mother to slice open the neck of her own child.



Seems pretty dark.

[KJandrew]

DarthCaine wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

So Darth Caine do you not find stabbing a child with a knife dark enough or the ability to have people killed because they spoke out of turn to me?

I don't remember ever having the option to stab a child. Maybe a demon, but I don't remember a child
As for the ability to have people killed because they spoke out of turn to you, that's pretty much available in EVERY RPG

i don't remember having the ability in oblivion to order a man to kill his servant because he followed his orders

[Face of Evil]

You can also convince Zerlinda in Dust Town to abandon her baby in the Deep Roads to starve to death. For her own good, I might add.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 13 octobre 2010 - 07:43 .

[DarthCaine]

KJandrew wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

So Darth Caine do you not find stabbing a child with a knife dark enough or the ability to have people killed because they spoke out of turn to me?

I don't remember ever having the option to stab a child. Maybe a demon, but I don't remember a child
As for the ability to have people killed because they spoke out of turn to you, that's pretty much available in EVERY RPG

i don't remember having the ability in oblivion to order a man to kill his servant because he followed his orders

I don't remember ANY choice in Oblivion (and besides, you could kill almost ANYONE in Oblivion). I didn't mean literally every RPG 'cos there's also JRPGs and hack n slash RPGs which offer no choices whatsoever

[ChickenDownUnder]

People use other game examples to help describe what they mean so as to better get across their perspective, that someone else could then reference and gain better unstanding. I'm of the opinion that if something were to be called a dark fantasy, it'd have to take a few pages from games like Silent Hill 2 or Amnesia: The Dark Descent.

Yes, the examples I used are not RPGs, but they both do something incredibly well; create a dark atmosphere. And, it wasn't about showing full-on rape scenes and etc, but effective use of lighting and textures.

Dragon Age, despite being an undeniably good game, just didn't have the kind of atmosphere to earn it being called a "dark" game. Some of the choices that could be made and certain codex entrees were certainly morbid, but the actual setting it was all in was too sunny medieval times for it to have any lasting impact.

Modifié par ChickenDownUnder, 13 octobre 2010 - 07:43 .

[nightcobra]

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

I'm of the opinion that if something were to be called a dark fantasy, it'd have to take a few pages from games like Silent Hill 2 or Amnesia: The Dark Descent.

Yes, the examples I used are not RPGs, but they both do something incredibly well; create a dark atmosphere. And, it wasn't about showing full-on rape scenes and etc, but effective use of lighting and textures.

Dragon Age, despite being an undeniably good game, just didn't have the kind of atmosphere to earn it being called a "dark" game. Some of the choices that could be made and certain codex entrees were certainly morbid, but the actual setting it was all in was too sunny medieval times for it to have any lasting impact.

read the manga berserk, it's borderline dark and at the same time high/low fantasy which is awesome

[KJandrew]

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

I'm of the opinion that if something were to be called a dark fantasy, it'd have to take a few pages from games like Silent Hill 2 or Amnesia: The Dark Descent.
 

I didn't enjoy amnesia that much,
mainly because it forced me to buy some more pants and i hold it responsible for my cat's concussion  

[KJandrew]

DarthCaine wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

So Darth Caine do you not find stabbing a child with a knife dark enough or the ability to have people killed because they spoke out of turn to me?

I don't remember ever having the option to stab a child. Maybe a demon, but I don't remember a child
As for the ability to have people killed because they spoke out of turn to you, that's pretty much available in EVERY RPG

i don't remember having the ability in oblivion to order a man to kill his servant because he followed his orders

I don't remember ANY choice in Oblivion (and besides, you could kill almost ANYONE in Oblivion). 

Yeah but killing people in Oblivion wasn't dark, it held all the emotion of happy slapping someone plus i felt i was doing the world a favour by ridding it of their dreary conversation

[thegreateski]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

I'm of the opinion that if something were to be called a dark fantasy, it'd have to take a few pages from games like Silent Hill 2 or Amnesia: The Dark Descent.

Yes, the examples I used are not RPGs, but they both do something incredibly well; create a dark atmosphere. And, it wasn't about showing full-on rape scenes and etc, but effective use of lighting and textures.

Dragon Age, despite being an undeniably good game, just didn't have the kind of atmosphere to earn it being called a "dark" game. Some of the choices that could be made and certain codex entrees were certainly morbid, but the actual setting it was all in was too sunny medieval times for it to have any lasting impact.

read the manga berserk, it's borderline dark and at the same time high/low fantasy which is awesome

Borderline?
Have you and I been reading the same story?

[Icinix]

I think perhaps in some arguments, Dark and Horror, are being merged.



A game can be dark without resorting to giving it's player nightmares. DA:O is DARK, but it is not a horror. And i personally I am thankful for that.

[DarthCaine]

KJandrew wrote...

Yeah but killing people in Oblivion wasn't dark, it held all the emotion of happy slapping someone plus i felt i was doing the world a favour by ridding it of their dreary conversation

It didn't feel much different in DAO. Sure, killing an import character has an impact, but killing someone for just looking you the wrong way has the same ammount of impact as killing someone in GTA or Oblivion. It doesn't make the game darker

[nightcobra]

thegreateski wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

I'm of the opinion that if something were to be called a dark fantasy, it'd have to take a few pages from games like Silent Hill 2 or Amnesia: The Dark Descent.

Yes, the examples I used are not RPGs, but they both do something incredibly well; create a dark atmosphere. And, it wasn't about showing full-on rape scenes and etc, but effective use of lighting and textures.

Dragon Age, despite being an undeniably good game, just didn't have the kind of atmosphere to earn it being called a "dark" game. Some of the choices that could be made and certain codex entrees were certainly morbid, but the actual setting it was all in was too sunny medieval times for it to have any lasting impact.

read the manga berserk, it's borderline dark and at the same time high/low fantasy which is awesome

Borderline?
Have you and I been reading the same story?

what i meant by "borderline dark" is that it's pretty dark, pitch black even.
i'm not english or american so i might have used the incorrect words to express myself

[thegreateski]

nightcobra8928 wrote...
what i meant by "borderline dark" is that it's pretty dark, pitch black even.
i'm not english or american so i might have used the incorrect words to express myself

Take out the borderline and just describe it as a pitch black fantasy and you'll be spot on.

[ChickenDownUnder]

@nightcobra8928

I have. Pieces of it at least. As far as I know it still isn't completely translated into English. And yeah, come to think of it... I'll give you that one in managing to blend horror and fantasy pretty well. Having a main character that was born literally as his mother was hanged from a tree certainly makes it dark.

@KJandrew

 I had spent a good ten minutes having the main character stand on a box because I was too scared the water monster would eat him, with no other box to jump on in sight.

@Icinix

Dark fantasy (also called horror fantasy or Gothic fantasy) is a fantasy subgenre that combines elements of fantasy with those of horror.

[KJandrew]

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

@KJandrew

 I had spent a good ten minutes having the main character stand on a box because I was too scared the water monster would eat him, with no other box to jump on in sight.

After the sewer area i ran away screaming when i saw any water. plus i spent about twelve minutes hiding in the cupboard after the first encounter. I made the mistake of opening the door to try and see what the monster looked like.

[maxernst]

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

@nightcobra8928

I have. Pieces of it at least. As far as I know it still isn't completely translated into English. And yeah, come to think of it... I'll give you that one in managing to blend horror and fantasy pretty well. Having a main character that was born literally as his mother was hanged from a tree certainly makes it dark.

@KJandrew

 I had spent a good ten minutes having the main character stand on a box because I was too scared the water monster would eat him, with no other box to jump on in sight.

@Icinix

Dark fantasy (also called horror fantasy or Gothic fantasy) is a fantasy subgenre that combines elements of fantasy with those of horror.

Okay, by that definition I would say DA:O was not dark fantasy and DA2 won't be either.  The term seems to me to get used more broadly in the publishing industry to include fantasies with grittier settings and antiheroes, without any real horror element.

[Icinix]

@ ChickenDownUnder

Dark fantasy is one thing, on-screen torture and rape is just....well, I don't see the need for it and have zero desire to witness it. It's mentioned, you're aware of it, but it isn't graphically thrust in your face. If it were the case, then the game wouldn't be dark, it would be a flat out horror.

[joriandrake]

maxernst wrote...

Okay, by that definition I would say DA:O was not dark fantasy and DA2 won't be either.  The term seems to me to get used more broadly in the publishing industry to include fantasies with grittier settings and antiheroes, without any real horror element.

yep, and thats totally bad

Modifié par joriandrake, 13 octobre 2010 - 08:29 .