100 réponses à ce sujet

[Tony Gunslinger]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...
I have tried both Improved Cryo and Squad Cryo.  The extra 2 seconds of Improved Cryo will help sometimes when you turn your back on a frozen enemy, but if your squad has cryo then they are likely to refreeze them anyways.  I would still prefer Improved Cryo IF I could detect some increased chance to freeze, but I didn't notice any difference in freeze chance between the two so I reverted back to Squad Cryo. I should probably run some scientific tests to verify whether or not there is a difference in activation percentage between the two but I haven't yet.  If anyone has tested this, then please post your results.

I've been working on an infiltrator using Improved Cryo Ammo vs. Squad Cryo Ammo. This is not empirical yet, but so far, it seems chance to freeze is based largely on damage. Because all shotguns deal a lot of it from point-blank range to begin with, any existing bonus in freezing chance with Improved Cryo wouldn't matter. I've tried freezing with low-damage-per-bullet weapons like the Predator, Tempest, and the Avenger... they do tend to freeze less, and the Improved version does affect their chances more. Their inherent lower chance to freeze rates are also compensated by their higher RoF and bigger ammo clips, of course. Non-shotgun weapons like the Carniflex, Mattock, and the Viper are ideal to be used with Cryo Ammo as they all deal significant damage per shot combined with decent-to-very fast RoF.

I'll post this build whenever I get a chance to write it, it's based somewhat on your Cryoguard. I also wish I had the equipment to record Xbox 360 vids to demonstrate these findings, it'll be a lot easier to explain instead of writing.

[Simbacca]

On my latest 360 insanity Vanguard run, I've started using the Claymore with Squad Cryo.  Works pretty damn good; one shot strips defenses and freezes, the melee, to reload faster, shatters the frozen foe, gun loaded and ready to shoot next victim.

[Kronner]

Simbacca wrote...

On my latest 360 insanity Vanguard run, I've started using the Claymore with Squad Cryo.  Works pretty damn good; one shot strips defenses and freezes, the melee, to reload faster, shatters the frozen foe, gun loaded and ready to shoot next victim.

Can you consistently freeze enemies? I have tried Cryo for the Claymore only briefly, because it did not always work (cos regular enemies were 1S1K'd  but the elites just did not freeze). Thanks

[ryoldschool]

Simbacca wrote...

On my latest 360 insanity Vanguard run, I've started using the Claymore with Squad Cryo.  Works pretty damn good; one shot strips defenses and freezes, the melee, to reload faster, shatters the frozen foe, gun loaded and ready to shoot next victim.

Im using squad cryo also, but on the Scimitar, almost done, but I did the Tali loyality just before the Reaper IFF ( lvl 29 vanguard ) and had more trouble than I usually do there ( Had Tali and Zaeed ).  So I redid the level with squad disruptor and it was a lot easier - guys that would take forever to freeze would get blasted back when they charged me.  I know cryo works on geth, but it must work slower.  The Scimitar with cryo works great on Blue suns btw.

I'm thinking that at the end of the game you might need more power on the shotguns, and I'm thinking about warp ammo for the SM.  Anyone tried that on a Vanguard?

[Kronner]

Warp ammo is decent, but nothing special, it provides relatively small damage bonus. (0.5x BASE damage against barriers, armor and health).

[Simbacca]

Kronner wrote...

Simbacca wrote...

On my latest 360 insanity Vanguard run, I've started using the Claymore with Squad Cryo.  Works pretty damn good; one shot strips defenses and freezes, the melee, to reload faster, shatters the frozen foe, gun loaded and ready to shoot next victim.

Can you consistently freeze enemies? I have tried Cryo for the Claymore only briefly, because it did not always work (cos regular enemies were 1S1K'd  but the elites just did not freeze). Thanks

It's not 100%, but it is very often.  It doesn't one-shot defenses and freeze superior officers, but one hit from ally defense stripping powers is all that's need to bring them in one-shot freeze range.  Against the elites (those with two layers of defense), i switch to my lvl 3 Incendiary Ammo, to deal with the 2nd armor layer, plus squad powers. 

My reasoning for trying this was:  if using a more rapid fire shotgun like the Scimitar, I'd rather have Inferno Ammo.  More shots equal more fire damage procs, and the faster rate of fire and keep them dancing in the short 3 seconds of CC each proc.  When using slower shotguns that can one-shot defenses, like the Evi and Claymore, might as well use Squad Cryo since it freezes in one shot most of the time (with Improved, it might be all the time but I haven't tried it).  Freezing the enemy allows for the new piece of cover, as ScroguBlitzen has shown, and the ability to finish with an elbow to shatter, conserving that loaded round in the shotgun for another foe.

I went through the early game of this playthrough with the Evi and lvl 1 Cryo Ammo.  Once I maxed Charge and Champion, then I got Squad Cryo and the Claymore.  It's different and interesting.  And yes, sometimes you have to deal with enemies not freezing properly or still moving, but it's not that often.  This is also the first time I am sticking with the Claymore on one of my Vanguards and using Cryo Ammo has made getting used to the reload trick on the 360 controller easier.

Modifié par Simbacca, 11 novembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[ryoldschool]

Kronner wrote...

Warp ammo is decent, but nothing special, it provides relatively small damage bonus. (0.5x BASE damage against barriers, armor and health).

Thanks, I had trouble with SM when using squad cryo and I'm going to try it a couple of ways this time.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Simbacca wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Simbacca wrote...

On my latest 360 insanity Vanguard run, I've started using the Claymore with Squad Cryo.  Works pretty damn good; one shot strips defenses and freezes, the melee, to reload faster, shatters the frozen foe, gun loaded and ready to shoot next victim.

Can you consistently freeze enemies? I have tried Cryo for the Claymore only briefly, because it did not always work (cos regular enemies were 1S1K'd  but the elites just did not freeze). Thanks

It's not 100%, but it is very often.  It doesn't one-shot defenses and freeze superior officers, but one hit from ally defense stripping powers is all that's need to bring them in one-shot freeze range.  Against the elites (those with two layers of defense), i switch to my lvl 3 Incendiary Ammo, to deal with the 2nd armor layer, plus squad powers. 

My reasoning for trying this was:  if using a more rapid fire shotgun like the Scimitar, I'd rather have Inferno Ammo.  More shots equal more fire damage procs, and the faster rate of fire and keep them dancing in the short 3 seconds of CC each proc.  When using slower shotguns that can one-shot defenses, like the Evi and Claymore, might as well use Squad Cryo since it freezes in one shot most of the time (with Improved, it might be all the time but I haven't tried it).  Freezing the enemy allows for the new piece of cover, as ScroguBlitzen has shown, and the ability to finish with an elbow to shatter, conserving that loaded round in the shotgun for another foe.

I went through the early game of this playthrough with the Evi and lvl 1 Cryo Ammo.  Once I maxed Charge and Champion, then I got Squad Cryo and the Claymore.  It's different and interesting.  And yes, sometimes you have to deal with enemies not freezing properly or still moving, but it's not that often.  This is also the first time I am sticking with the Claymore on one of my Vanguards and using Cryo Ammo has made getting used to the reload trick on the 360 controller easier.

The thing about the Scimitar is that if the first shot doesn't freeze them, then you can shoot them again (in the legs if they're low on health) to freeze them.  It's pretty hard to shoot an enemy twice with the Claymore and not kill them
I would like to see some videos of how you do with the Claymore+Cryo.

I also need to post up some more videos, but not sure what part of the game to do.  Have been seeing what type of speed run times I can get... but SabreSantiago's times are godlike.  I also don't really like using the Pull+Warp combo which is necessary for good times.  You can pull it off quickly enough on the 360 but I prefer blowing the enemies away with the shotgun to the face.

[ryoldschool]

ryoldschool wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Warp ammo is decent, but nothing special, it provides relatively small damage bonus. (0.5x BASE damage against barriers, armor and health).

Thanks, I had trouble with SM when using squad cryo and I'm going to try it a couple of ways this time.

I just tried warp ammo with Evi on SM and it was terrible compared to Inferno - I was expecting it to eat thru barriers and it did, but by that time in the game the shotgun will do that by itself.  The effects of Inferno are really much better - catching the guy next to the one you are shooting on fire, etc.

@Scrogublitzen I'd like to see the SM ( no matter what your times are ) with scimitar because I had trouble taking down collectors fast enough.   

[Kurt M.]

We Vanguards are Legion ^^

[Simbacca]

ryoldschool wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Warp ammo is decent, but nothing special, it provides relatively small damage bonus. (0.5x BASE damage against barriers, armor and health).

Thanks, I had trouble with SM when using squad cryo and I'm going to try it a couple of ways this time.

I just tried warp ammo with Evi on SM and it was terrible compared to Inferno - I was expecting it to eat thru barriers and it did, but by that time in the game the shotgun will do that by itself.  The effects of Inferno are really much better - catching the guy next to the one you are shooting on fire, etc.

@Scrogublitzen I'd like to see the SM ( no matter what your times are ) with scimitar because I had trouble taking down collectors fast enough.   

If i can find a quick easy way (yeah right) to record my 360 footage, i would immediately record this run.  My cryo-centric latest vanguard run is ready for that mission.  The one quirk, though, i like using the claymore with this one.

[ScroguBlitzen]

 New video of suicide mission valve section up: 

Using Thane+Samara in this run because I like their style.  A Pull+Warp combo team is more powerful, but warp exploding enemies off of ledges means less to shotgun in the face.

[ryoldschool]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

 New video of suicide mission valve section up: 

Using Thane+Samara in this run because I like their style.  A Pull+Warp combo team is more powerful, but warp exploding enemies off of ledges means less to shotgun in the face.

Great work.  I liked the way you charged the other collectors to get away from Harbinger.  Also at 0:26 it looks like you tried to use a squad power and instead sent a positioning command - in the heat of battle easy to do on Xbox.

At 1:02 you take on three collectors without physical cover, alternating shooting between them.  At 1:41 and 1:51 you take on three collectors again, moving away from Harbinger each time.

What can I say?  Well done.

[Njorls]

Great vid, I like how you're able to play without ever using the power wheel. Wish I could do the same. I'm glad you've done these, they really are the best for the xbox that I've seen.

[ScroguBlitzen]

ryoldschool wrote...

At 1:02 you take on three collectors without physical cover, alternating shooting between them.  At 1:41 and 1:51 you take on three collectors again, moving away from Harbinger each time.

What can I say?  Well done. 

@ryoldschool-  Thanks.  Alternating shots on two targets is pretty hard to do with any shotgun other than the Scimitar... another reason it rules.  Did you notice the two harby shot dodges around 3:34?  It's a good idea to practice dodging his shots on the Horizon mission.  Comes in handy for collector missions.

Njorls wrote...

Great vid, I like how you're able to play without ever using the power wheel. Wish I could do the same. I'm glad you've done these, they really are the best for the xbox that I've seen.

@Njorls-  Thanks.  In that video I'm actually letting the squad members control their own powers, although I also use their mapped Warp and Reave when available.

[Sparrow44]

Very nice fluid gameplay, especially without the use of pause. Cool to see some 360 videos on here which I don't see that often compared to PC videos. Keep 'em coming! XD



I like that Cryo gives you a little breathing room when closing in on enemies after they've frozen, lets you save bullets by melee'ing them while looking to charge another foe.



As an XBOX player myself I'd hope to upload videos myself, put not quite sure how to do it without quality cameras. What do you use to record with?

[ScroguBlitzen]

@Sparroww-



My 9th post on the first page provides details of my recording device. Any particular part of the game you'd like to see a video on?

[Sparrow44]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

@Sparroww-

My 9th post on the first page provides details of my recording device. Any particular part of the game you'd like to see a video on?

Cheers, no real preference really on what to see next just felt like commenting on what I've seen from the vids.

Ironically the title of this thread lead me to believe that you would be using the Avalanche in your videos.

[incinerator950]

I think I might alter my Vanguard to this, if I bother to take the time to play him >_>.

[ryoldschool]

I'm trying a run where I max weapon damage and put one point in cryo right from the beginning using Evi. That way the damage can break thru the protection and slow the target down right away so I can finish them off.



I put 3 points in incendary then one in cryo before I maxed out charge ( no points in passive until I had the cryo and max charge ).



Used Miranda and maxed out her passive before adding any points to her overload or warp ( + 15% ).



Taking destroyer for passive ( +15% ).



Using the Kestral armor for weapon damage ( N7 part for shoulder ) giving +11%.



I just finished Horizon and it has worked very well ( can one shot collectors with headshot and if not can shot plus melee plus shot will killl them for sure - and the cryo slows them down so you can get the melee and second shot in before they move very far). This is my fourth vanguard insanity run and I am getting better, but its been my most effective run yet - hardly use the bonus power ( statis ).



This means that I take Miranda on every mission, but I have never tried maxing out her passive first ( usually max warp first ).





To continue with this strategy, I might have to take the claymore on CS to keep up the high weapon damage per shot ( I usually take assult rifle training ).

[Bozorgmehr]

If your strategy involves Cryo Ammo, I wouldn't get the Claymore - too many OSOK. The Scimitar is the most effective Cryo Ammo shotgun and you can use either the Viper or Mattock who work nicely with Cryo Ammo too.

[ryoldschool]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

If your strategy involves Cryo Ammo, I wouldn't get the Claymore - too many OSOK. The Scimitar is the most effective Cryo Ammo shotgun and you can use either the Viper or Mattock who work nicely with Cryo Ammo too.

Simbacca eariler in this thread said he used Claymore with cryo with success - that is where I got the idea.   Also I've tried Scimitar before and it works ok, but I prefer higher damage to start the freezing faster.  I said I might "have" to take the claymore to do this strategy because I really like using the mattock with vanguard.

[ryoldschool]

Just finished Collector ship with "high weapon Damage Cryo Vanguard". Tried it both with Claymore and Evi ( mattock as bonus ). Rate of fire with Claymore is not fast enough for me ( sometimes miss or only slightly hit target and then the next shot is too slow to get off - xbox player, no reload trick ). Sometimes claymore osok target, sometimes started freeze, but slow follow up shot got me killed a bunch of times. Also the range on Evi is better so I can sometimes fire a shot moving up to target ( waiting for charge to cool ) then charge and finish them off ( same logic as ScroguBlitzen ). When fighting Harbinger I switched to incendary ammo on shotgun ( did not use mattock except to take out scion at range.



I took Miranda ( required for this strategy to get her 15% weapon damage ) and Kasumi because folks said flashbang would bother harbinger a lot - well it does a good job of stopping him from spamming his attacks.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

If your strategy involves Cryo Ammo, I wouldn't get the Claymore - too many OSOK. The Scimitar is the most effective Cryo Ammo shotgun and you can use either the Viper or Mattock who work nicely with Cryo Ammo too.

This.

I would go so far as to say the Scimitar is the best shotgun period.  Any enemy that the Claymore can one shot can be killed with 2 scimitar shots + melee.  The Claymore then has to reload,  but the Scimitar can kill 3 more before it needs reloading.  More shots faster means more stuns and more chances to proc inferno explosions.  There is a reason SabreSandiego used the Scimitar on his legendary suicide speed run.

@ryoldschool-  Glad you're enjoying the Vanguard and trying some new things.  The only way to get really good on the Vanguard is to be extremely aggressive and die. alot.  If a situation doesn't look chargeable... charge it anyways.

Modifié par ScroguBlitzen, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:12 .

[Simbacca]

ryoldschool wrote...

...Simbacca eariler in this thread said he used Claymore with cryo with success - that is where I got the idea...

I did for a bit, but eventually ran into the same things you did.  I went back and took the Mattock (i had the Viper already on my first Vanguard playthrough).  As I explained in another thread a while back, some missions I go with the Eviscerator/Mattock combo, some I go with the Scimitar/Mattock.  The other thing I switch up depending on the mission is which of those two weapons will have Inferno set and which will have Squad Cryo set.  

I think the examples I gave in that thread were during Samara's recruitment I had the Scimitar with Inferno and the Mattock with Cryo. For the LotSB missions, I had the Eviscerator with Cryo and the Mattock with Inferno. For Mordin's loyalty, I had the Eviscerator with Inferno and the Mattock with Cryo.  I enjoy using the two weapons almost evenly throughout the missions (shotgun still pulls a little ahead always).  I also like that by having the Mattock I don't need the Locust at all, allowing me to keep my favorite SMG in the Tempest for the rare few massive hit-box enemies with shields/barriers.

Modifié par Simbacca, 10 décembre 2010 - 12:27 .