100 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

I would go so far as to say the Scimitar is the best shotgun period.  Any enemy that the Claymore can one shot can be killed with 2 scimitar shots + melee.  The Claymore then has to reload,  but the Scimitar can kill 3 more before it needs reloading.  More shots faster means more stuns and more chances to proc inferno explosions.  There is a reason SabreSandiego used the Scimitar on his legendary suicide speed run.

The Scimitar is indeed the best ammo power shotgun and easy to use, but all the other shotties are great too. I love them all. Unlike Assault Rifles (Mattock's the clear winner here) Shotguns are very well balanced, all have strengths and weaknesses.

@ryoldschool-  Glad you're enjoying the Vanguard and trying some new things.  The only way to get really good on the Vanguard is to be extremely aggressive and die. alot.  If a situation doesn't look chargeable... charge it anyways.

Yeah, but all classes can be played extremely aggressive. Just do and die - or was it do or die?

[ScroguBlitzen]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

@ryoldschool-  Glad you're enjoying the Vanguard and trying some new things.  The only way to get really good on the Vanguard is to be extremely aggressive and die. alot.  If a situation doesn't look chargeable... charge it anyways.

Yeah, but all classes can be played extremely aggressive. Just do and die - or was it do or die?

Yes, the other classes can be played more or less aggressively.  With the other classes though, it's sort of a smooth continuum... be a bit more aggressive... get in trouble, fall back to a little less aggressive.

With the Vanguard it's more of a binary decision.  Do you charge that group of 5 or not?  Once you do, there is no going back.

I've died with the Vanguard more times than with all other classes I've played combined.  The cool thing is: the things you learn playing Vanguard make you better at playing all the other classes as well.

[Bozorgmehr]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

I've died with the Vanguard more times than with all other classes I've played combined.  The cool thing is: the things you learn playing Vanguard make you better at playing all the other classes as well.

Yeah, thanks to the great Vanguard vids posted here I started playing on the edge myself and besides the CQC skills obtained by Charging everything (and dying a lot too), I also learned to play without pausing - very usefull. Currently I'm into Engineering and love it (just posted a Claymore Engineer vid in Sino's SG Engineer topic). I still prefer biotics though, but tech skills are nice too

[Simbacca]

 Agreed on the current discussion.  For my first playthrough I wanted play on Insanity and I wanted to keep my main imported ME1 Shepard the same class, which was Vanguard.  If it wasn't for thisisme's and sabresandiego's threads, along with the creators of all the videos linked therein, I would not have seen the fun through the more frustrating parts of the playthrough.  Yes, everyone dies a lot on their first Insanity Vanguard playthrough... but let me tell you that is especially true when it is also your first ME2 playthrough!  Eventually, about half-way through though I couldn't tell you how many actual hours it took, I realized I was starting to pull off some of the crazy stunts I saw in those youtube videos.  Since then I've played every class, only ever on Insanity, and even the Vanguard again, and it has all since been fairly easy.  I attribute that to the baptism by fire that first insanity Vanguard was, just like the discussion here of playing other classes better due to the experience of a Vanguard run.

[ScroguBlitzen]

@Bozorgmehr- I really only started playing without pausing because videos are better that way and I was intending to publish some. But after getting used to playing that way... it feels less fun and seamless to pause and choose powers. I guess it takes some of the immersion away. The problem though is as a 360 player I only have 2 extra buttons for my skills besides the class power. That makes it difficult to play power heavy classes without pausing. A 360 player just cannot pull off your sick adept gameplay without pausing.



@Simbacca- I started ME2 with a Soldier on Veteran then bumped it up to Hardcore after a mission or two. Everything since then has been Insanity. I'll have to play ME3 from the beginning on Insanity. The way it was meant to be played. They probably ought to bump up the difficulty a bit more, or at least provide a way for 360 players to run mission solo. I'd like to see a difficulty where it's Insanity but death is permanent.

[ryoldschool]

I'm still playing my high weapon damage vanguard with cryo ammo ( Miranda on every mission, Destroyer passive, weapon armor pieces ) and I just did Tali's loyality at level 26. Previous playthroughs with Champion and no Miranda ( Took Zaeed ) always gave me trouble on this mission, and I had been switching to Evi ( instead of Scmitiar ). This time I have switched back to Scmitiar ( increased weapon damage helps that gun a lot also ) and this was by far the easiest time I've had on that mission. I know that the bonuses we are talking about here are small, the 6% extra ( Destroyer over Champion ) and Miranda Passive ( 15% ), and even with four SG upgrades it DOES make a difference.

[Bozorgmehr]

Simbacca wrote...

... Since then I've played every class, only ever on Insanity, and even the Vanguard again, and it has all since been fairly easy.  I attribute that to the baptism by fire that first insanity Vanguard was, just like the discussion here of playing other classes better due to the experience of a Vanguard run.

Completing a Vanguard game on Insanity should unlock the other classes I think it would improve the overall experience with all the other classes.

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

@Bozorgmehr- I really only started playing without pausing because videos are better that way and I was intending to publish some. But after getting used to playing that way... it feels less fun and seamless to pause and choose powers. I guess it takes some of the immersion away. The problem though is as a 360 player I only have 2 extra buttons for my skills besides the class power. That makes it difficult to play power heavy classes without pausing. A 360 player just cannot pull off your sick adept gameplay without pausing.

I've improved my gameplay a lot since abandoning pause altogether, the pace is addictive and once you get into its flow I'm always dissapointed when a fight is over - I want more! Bring it on you sons of B's!

I can hardly comprehend what it must be like playing with only a couple hotkeys - it's great watching you and Tony play on 360 the way you do; no pausing and great use of powers nevertheless. Who am I to complain about too few hotkeys though I'll hope BW add some in ME3 (pc and consoles).

@ryoldschool; Interesting, so you're basically saying Miranda and passive weapon bonus beat Zaeeds Disruptor Ammo +damage (and CC) @ lvl 26? That supports my claim in the Viper topic regarding power ammo's extra damage. Good to know

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 12 décembre 2010 - 09:28 .

[ryoldschool]

I just wanted to bump this thread up because some new console players might not have seen it. Its my favorite way to play vanguard on a console - thats because reload trick isn't so effective on xbox ( can't aim ) and this strategy is very effective.

[Kronner]

ryoldschool wrote...

I just wanted to bump this thread up because some new console players might not have seen it. Its my favorite way to play vanguard on a console - thats because reload trick isn't so effective on xbox ( can't aim ) and this strategy is very effective.

http://social.biowar...1/index/6343841

It seems to be working very well..

Modifié par Kronner, 04 mars 2011 - 07:10 .

[ryoldschool]

Kronner wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

I just wanted to bump this thread up because some new console players might not have seen it. Its my favorite way to play vanguard on a console - thats because reload trick isn't so effective on xbox ( can't aim ) and this strategy is very effective.

http://social.biowar...1/index/6343841

It seems to be working very well..

Yeah, I saw that video after I posted my bump.  I know from experience that there are a lot of times when you want to adjust your aim and can't because you've left the camera stick to do the melee for the reload trick.  My last two playthroughs have been vanguard/claymore ( 2nd one on ng+ ) so I had quite a bit of experience with it.  Its doable on 360 and fun.  The cryoguard is quite different and does not take any special "tricks" to pull it off.

[ScroguBlitzen]

I use the Scimitar with this build because it's the best at applying Cryo effects. The Claymore usually just kills targets in a single shot.

@ryoldschool- You've been playing alot of Vanguards. Is there any flavor of it you haven't tried yet?

[ryoldschool]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

I use the Scimitar with this build because it's the best at applying Cryo effects. The Claymore usually just kills targets in a single shot.

@ryoldschool- You've been playing alot of Vanguards. Is there any flavor of it you haven't tried yet?

Ha, yeah tried them all except shockwave version posted recently.  They are all good.

[pedal2metal]

ScroguBlitzen, your video made me go back & try the Vanguard some more. I have to say that Cryo is the way to go. It is so much easier to not die using cryo w/Scimitar than I've had w/Inferno & Eviscerator. You can charge so indiscriminately which is what I like about it vs. having to be more careful. This is on Insanity on 360. I found it so much easier & more fun as a result. I still had to play a little smart but shutting down the opposition w/Cryo so they can't shoot you while you're taking care of other enemies is absolutely huge. Thanks a bunch!

As far as more videos, I think showing a video of Arrival from after Object Rho to the finish would be useful. I think it will be more difficult than usual as you are alone w/o squadmates to distract enemy fire. So it's more of a "pure" analysis/demonstration of the Vanguard, or any class really. I did it last night. Challenging but really fun too.

I'll lay down a few varying levels of challenge. BTW, I'm assuming a 360 platform since I think that's a more challenging platform to play on due to minimal hotkeys, joystick, etc.... As far as build goes, I'll offer the same build except substitute Stasis for Reave. So I had Inferno Ammo, Squad Cryo, Champion, Heavy Charge, & Heavy Stasis. Using this build, try the following:

1. Do it w/o dying on your first playthrough. If not first playthrough, that's ok just try w/o ever dying.
2. Do it w/o ever pausing/bringing up the radial menu.
3. Do it w/o ever switching weapons or powers so only with Cryo Scimitar shotgun.

I couldn't do #1/#2 (I have to pause sometimes to find the best enemy to charge & I died a few times along the way) but I did do #3 (mostly, I had to use Inferno w/Scimitar on YMIR at end). Cryo is so effective w/Shotguns, really no need to use anything else.

I figure the above is doable for Vanguard pros but it was fun even with dying a few times. Good luck!

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Modifié par pedal2metal, 18 mai 2011 - 06:49 .

[ryoldschool]

Return of the cryoguard. 

This build should be of special interest to console users because one of the key tactics is to circle your target while you shoot them, putting the target between you and another bad guy.  The controllers for console make this part easy.  Its my favorite way to play vanguard.

I recorded a couple of low level missions with this build.  One of the problems at low levels is that you don't have the third shotgun upgrade and you run out of ammo easily.  To get a look of how the build works, look at OP Baria Frontiers' Office video.  My best video using this build is the first part of horizon.

Horizon first Part

Garrus Recruit Part 1
Garrus Part 2

[ryoldschool]

This is the second part of Horizon.  At the end of the video the game buggs out and the Praetorian does not show up.  I really miss the third shotgun upgrade because ammo is always a problem.

Horizon Second Part

[ryoldschool]

Did Samara recruitment to get the Scimitar shotgun, which is preferred for this strategy.

I am at level 14 and have cryo ammo at level 2.  You are able to freeze guys all over the place.

Samara RM

[Xariann]

Uhm. You know I like your videos Ryo, but when I see people being frozen in Samara's mission they are almost dead. Is that really useful? You could just kill them and be done with it even without the freeze effect, no? You got through it just fine though.

Modifié par Xariann, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:34 .

[ryoldschool]

@xariann usually the enemy starts to freeze upon the second shot and they stop moving ( easier to hit ) and stop shooting. In this last video I didn't notice that I used any of them for cover. I'll try that same mission with evi and indendary ammo and let you know what difference it is for me.

[Xariann]

Heavy charge slow makes them easy to hit already though. But that said, I am trying Thane's recruitment mission right now with Squad Cryo. My previous video on Samara's recruitment mission had only me with level 3 Cryo ammo. Having Squad Cryo is like the difference between night and day and I found it much more useful than when I was the only one with that power. I can see why people like that now. I am still a bit of a brute force Vanguard myself, I achieve the killing in different ways (just bloody kill them!) Both work, although the "Just kill them" is more to my tastes. It's like saying, "I like chocolate milkshake, you like strawberry milkshake" neither is wrong, the end result is that we both buy and drink one.

On using enemies for cover, there's one merc you go behind where the other merc can't shoot you because the frozen is between you and her. You might have not done it on purpose but you did it and it was good  (just say it was your masterplan *nod*.)

When my Squad Cryo vid is up I'll post it here together with the Samara video and you'll see from my notes where I see the difference. Thanks for introducing me to this playstyle Ryo, something new to work on. I didn't know about this thread until you pointed it out to me

Modifié par Xariann, 10 septembre 2011 - 08:52 .

[Xariann]

So here are the videos.

Samara's mission:

Comments: Bleh, Eviscerator doesn't work so well with it, not many freezes because it requires less hits to kill something. Evi works better with other types of ammo. Also I was just using a single target level 3 Cryo Ammo. Not many freezes.

Thane's mission:

Comments: Way better, Squad Ammo makes a lot of difference. Using the Scimitar instead of Eviscerator. I don't like the Scimitar, so that's "grudge number 1" for the Cryo Vanguard for me. I also prefer guaranteed damage over "could be useful freezes." Grudge number 2. However, this was a load of fun and it worked most of the time, making Cryo Ammo viable. Now a viable playstyle is a very different thing from a playstyle that I like. I won't put it down, but I am unlikely to do a whole run with Cryo Ammo, it's just not my cup of tea. I am more likely to use Incendiary or an applicable Squad Ammo from a team mate.

Modifié par Xariann, 11 septembre 2011 - 11:54 .

[ryoldschool]

I just redid the Samara RM using the Evi with level 2 indendary ammo to see the difference between that and the cryo ammo.

(1)  That opening charge where I charge the vanguard + three mechs + rocket trooper - I was *ahem* fortunate to pull that off the very first time in the cryo video ( caught a bunch in Mordin's incenerate at the right time ), and it was hard to duplicate with incendary ( or even trying to do it again with cryo ).

(2) My aim is better in this video, but thats because I am trying to one-shot guys with evi.  With the upgrades I have at this point ( 2 ) at level 14 those vanguards can't be one-shotted until most of their barrier is gone, so I had to take several shots to take them down ( exeception is the ending fight when I thought it was over and then three dudes with rocket launchers bust in from the side - Mordin/Miranda weakened them so I could one-shot them ).

(3) I looked at the cryo video in comparison and I missed a bunch of shots with cryo.  Part of that is that I try to lay down as many shots as possible to get the freezing effect, so I miss more.  But it went well enough.  I'm looking forward to when I get squad cryo and my team can help with the freezing.

samara  rm with incendary

samara with cryo ( repost )

[ryoldschool]

This is Grunt's LM at level 16.  I have level 3 cryo ammo.  I also used Kronner's method of taking down the Maw with mainly the shotgun.

Grunt's LM 

After Horizon, I did

Illium - bought 3rd biotic upgrade
Samara RM - to get scimitar
Tali RM - to get AR upgrade, Pistol upgrade
Mordin's LM unlocked - went to Tuchanka to buy 3rd shotgun upgrade for 2x ammo
Geth Weather sidequest - 3rd damage protection upgrade
Grunt LM - to get 4th shotgun upgrade

I have thane to do before the Collector ship.   I will have 3 upgrades for sniper, pistol, assult rifle, 4 for shotgun, 4 for smg.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 13 septembre 2011 - 12:13 .

[ryoldschool]

Level 17, Thane RM.  I finally have enough points to max cryo ammo. To experiment I went with improved cryo ammo instead of the usual squad cryo ammo.  I did two runs, but I actually liked the improved ammo better.
The improved cryo seems to freeze with the first shot after target is in health ( not 100% of the time ), but seems more reliable than squad cryo ( with only you shooting the target ).
What happens is when you freeze a guy you can leave him until you have frozen his close companions.  In one part of the first video I have three guys frozen while I take out a fourth guy.  Sometimes the freeze will kill them outright.  Sometimes they wake up with just a sliver of health ( see one of the engineers that come out of the elevator at beginning of the second part ), but usually they die.  With squad cryo your team will freeze-kill those already frozen.
The biggest problem I had with the first part of the mission was those darn mechanical dogs.  They bum rush you and if you are up against a wall you can't move.  Movement is very important to this strategy, so usually you die.  So in the video I try to take out the dogs as soon as they show up.
Thane Recruit Part 1
Thane Recruit Part 2

[ryoldschool]

This is my last cryoguard video, the collector ship. ScroguBlitzen has great videos later in the game already at the top of this thread.

DCS squad cryo

Modifié par ryoldschool, 18 septembre 2011 - 08:31 .