399 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Each time I play the game, I'm playing an entirely new and different character.  But if I get the same voice delivering lines the same way, I can't really play a different character.

But the icon system and dominant personality thing should help.

[-Semper-]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Because some of us like a more cinematic approach to our games instead of having to read half a book to play it...

there you have your answer... dumb it down to attract a wider audience. the lower the intelligence needed to play the game the more money you will earn. it's simple as that.

Modifié par -Semper-, 17 octobre 2010 - 07:13 .

[The Masked Rog]

-Semper- wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Because some of us like a more cinematic approach to our games instead of having to read half a book to play it...

there you have your answer... dumb it down to attract a wider audience. the lower the intelligence needed to play the game the more money you will earn. it's simple as that.

Elitism alert! You do know some people can be intelligent and still find having lots of reading to do in a video game to be boring. I like reading (and I do read a lot of books), but when it comes to DA:O I turn the subtitles off and just listen to it, because it feel better. I am not a fan of reading on a screen. NO, I'm not claiming to be intelligent, I'm under no illusion about that.

[-Semper-]

The Masked Rog wrote...

Elitism alert! You do know some people can be intelligent and still find having lots of reading to do in a video game to be boring.

it's not about elitism or to attack/offend users but to hit the average. it's a fact that the majority of all players are simple minded and therefore prefer fast paced games without personal effort, which includes reading. if you want to sell 10 millions of copies you have to bow to this group and eliminate everything that stands in the line.

[upsettingshorts]

-Semper- wrote...
it's not about elitism or to attack/offend users but to hit the average. it's a fact that the majority of all players are simple minded and therefore prefer fast paced games without personal effort, which includes reading. if you want to sell 10 millions of copies you have to bow to this group and eliminate everything that stands in the line.

The idea that fast paced games don't require effort is utterly absurd. 

And yeah, that part I bolded?  Textbook elitism.    Your claim that you mean not to offend is irrelevant, because your comments are offensive regardless.

Learn to make an argument without slandering people.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 octobre 2010 - 07:53 .

[Corbin Netharia]

-Semper- wrote...

it's not about elitism or to attack/offend users but to hit the average. it's a fact that the majority of all players are simple minded and therefore prefer fast paced games without personal effort, which includes reading. if you want to sell 10 millions of copies you have to bow to this group and eliminate everything that stands in the line.

Which is why DA:O had so much text lore in it, right? Because they wanted to do away with all that pesky reading!

[Morroian]

-Semper- wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Because some of us like a more cinematic approach to our games instead of having to read half a book to play it...

there you have your answer... dumb it down to attract a wider audience. the lower the intelligence needed to play the game the more money you will earn. it's simple as that.

This again, films can be just as much complex works of art as novels.

[Meltemph]

-Semper- wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Because some of us like a more cinematic approach to our games instead of having to read half a book to play it...

there you have your answer... dumb it down to attract a wider audience. the lower the intelligence needed to play the game the more money you will earn. it's simple as that.

lmao!  Someone takes their video games way to seriously.  If you think you can judge the quality of a person by the video games they enjoy, you sir, have a problem.

Modifié par Meltemph, 17 octobre 2010 - 08:16 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

The Masked Rog wrote...

It is possible to imagine a completely self made personality for the PC, but only if you assume that everybody who doesn't answer to you according to that personality didn't understand what you meant or disregarded it.

The other characters' behaviour isn't at all relevant.  What matters is my character's behaviour.

[-Semper-]

Corbin Netharia wrote...

Which is why DA:O had so much text lore in it, right? Because they wanted to do away with all that pesky reading!

which is why da2 will break with it (besides other gameplay changes) to attract more people, mainly a wider console player base.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

And yeah, that part I bolded?  Textbook elitism.    Your claim that you mean not to offend is irrelevant, because your comments are offensive regardless.

offensive against whom? i've spoken about the percentage of the player's base around the world.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dave of Canada wrote...

But the icon system and dominant personality thing should help.

Relative to Mass Effect, yes.

But that's a really low bar.  Relative to DAO I don't see how DA2 can possibly be anything other than more restrictive and limiting with regard to roleplaying.

[nightcobra]

-Semper- wrote...

Corbin Netharia wrote...

Which is why DA:O had so much text lore in it, right? Because they wanted to do away with all that pesky reading!

which is why da2 will break with it (besides other gameplay changes) to attract more people, mainly a wider console player base.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

And yeah, that part I bolded?  Textbook elitism.    Your claim that you mean not to offend is irrelevant, because your comments are offensive regardless.

offensive against whom? i've spoken about the percentage of the player's base around the world.

as far as i know they won't break away with the codex. i think i also remember that the one in charge of writing it was mary kirby in a post by david gaider, but i might be wrong on that memory

[upsettingshorts]

Sigh... I don't know why I bother sometimes.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 octobre 2010 - 08:25 .

[-Semper-]

Meltemph wrote...

lmao!  Someone takes their video games way to seriously.  If you think you can judge the quality of a person by the video games they enjoy, you sir, have a problem.

the point was about market economy and totally unrelated to specific games. that is why today there are no triple a turn based games without cinematics. you will horribly fail economy wise.

[Daerog]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Each time I play the game, I'm playing an entirely new and different character.  But if I get the same voice delivering lines the same way, I can't really play a different character.

But the icon system and dominant personality thing should help.

Well, not only that, but even if you do play a different personality/character, it is still the same person. Different looks, different gender, still the same child of mama and papa Hawke who's sister is Bethany and such. Same voice doesn't bother me, because it is the Hawke that will be the Champion of Kirkwall and will always be that person. Just who that person is depends on what the player chooses.

A different voice would be welcome if we played different races or people of varying backgrounds, but since Hawke is pretty fixed on where s/he was born and raised, the same vocal tones and accent makes sense.

Anyway, on talking about Sylvius the Mad's comments, I would honestly like to play the kind of game that he envisions. Sounds like a fun tabletop rpg on the computer. Or I could just play NWN again... or an actual tabletop game... still would be cool if BioWare would make a game with old features again. Still looking forward to enjoying DA2 regardless.

[Meltemph]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sigh... I don't know why I bother sometimes.

I always get the impression with comments similar to what your responding to, that some people want video games or think video games take the place of books, trying to infer intelligence, based on what games they like.  I personally find it funny,  I've never taken entertainment, interactive mediums, so seriously.

I should start making interns put that on their applications, what video games they enjoy, and add that into their evaluation.  

[Sylvius the Mad]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Anyway, on talking about Sylvius the Mad's comments, I would honestly like to play the kind of game that he envisions. Sounds like a fun tabletop rpg on the computer.

Reproducing the gameplay of a tabletop game should be, I think, the primary goal of any CRPG.

That's the whole point of the genre.

[Meltemph]

-Semper- wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

lmao!  Someone takes their video games way to seriously.  If you think you can judge the quality of a person by the video games they enjoy, you sir, have a problem.

the point was about market economy and totally unrelated to specific games. that is why today there are no triple a turn based games without cinematics. you will horribly fail economy wise.

Outside of your obvious hissy fit,  if you think games like Dragon Age are beyond "lower intelligence, people", you may want to reevaluate quite a few things.

Modifié par Meltemph, 17 octobre 2010 - 08:38 .

[The Masked Rog]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Anyway, on talking about Sylvius the Mad's comments, I would honestly like to play the kind of game that he envisions. Sounds like a fun tabletop rpg on the computer.

Reproducing the gameplay of a tabletop game should be, I think, the primary goal of any CRPG.

That's the whole point of the genre.

It was moved away from that into capitalizing the PC's strenghts while avoiding its weaknesses (such as the inability to adapt on the fly or the lack of a creative process).
But we are falling in the "What's an RPG" trap question again.

[AlanC9]

-Semper- wrote...
the point was about market economy and totally unrelated to specific games. that is why today there are no triple a turn based games without cinematics. you will horribly fail economy wise.

Sure, but your "argument" was that's caused by the majority of game players being simple-minded, stupid, and lazy. As opposed to, say, having different tastes from you.

Enjoying certain kinds of games simply isn't caused by intelligence. Although I suppose a really stupid person couldn't play, say , HoI3, there are plenty of really smart people who wouldn't like to play it even though they could.

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

-Semper- wrote...
it's not about elitism or to attack/offend users but to hit the average. it's a fact that the majority of all players are simple minded and therefore prefer fast paced games without personal effort, which includes reading. if you want to sell 10 millions of copies you have to bow to this group and eliminate everything that stands in the line.

The idea that fast paced games don't require effort is utterly absurd. 

And yeah, that part I bolded?  Textbook elitism.    Your claim that you mean not to offend is irrelevant, because your comments are offensive regardless.

Learn to make an argument without slandering people.

Yeah agreed, it is not that fast-paced games don't require effort because my epic fail at them makes me appreciate those who have better reflexes and snappier attention spans.  I look away and get a sip of tea and meanwhile my FPS hero is getting his head taken apart.

Anyway, I do lament games being less thoughtful or the idea (which is pretty realistic) that a lot of players don't want to be bothered with reading in games.  It is commercialization and casualization due to the realities of the mass market.  If we as a culture are dumber for it, that's debatable, but I have to say we are.  It's not the fault of any one game or company though, obviously not.

[-Semper-]

Meltemph wrote...

Outside of your obvious hissy fit,  if you think games like Dragon Age are beyond "lower intelligence, people", you may want to reevaluate quite a few things.

personally i found da:o very simple. it was in some ways connected to old school rpgs but by far no spiritual successor.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Now, I am hardly somebody who can't be bothered with reading lines and imaging what my character sounds like. I've done that in countless RPGs including Origins. That said, I believe a well done voiceover enables you to feel more attached to your character. The problem is the trade-off we see in Dragon Age 2 where you can only play as one individual human for example.

[AlanC9]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Well, not only that, but even if you do play a different personality/character, it is still the same person. Different looks, different gender, still the same child of mama and papa Hawke who's sister is Bethany and such.

This is a really bizarre definition of "the same person." My brother and I are not the same person, even though we have the same sister and the same parents.

[upsettingshorts]

AlanC9 wrote...
Enjoying certain kinds of games simply isn't caused by intelligence. Although I suppose a really stupid person couldn't play, say , HoI3, there are plenty of really smart people who wouldn't like to play it even though they could.

OT:

Holy mackerel that game is bloody hard.  It's Exhibit A as to why I laugh at any descriptions of any CRPG I've ever been exposed to as being "tactical" or "difficult."  Baldur's Gate 2 might as well be a coloring book by comparison.

I would appreciate a little bit more hand-holding in HoI3.  Seriously.

And I find Paradox Interactive's other games like Vicky 2 and EU3 are pretty easy, even as weak/minor nations.  Hearts of Iron 3 is the real deal.  Some of that is simply more effective presentation and user feedback, but a lot of it is just that HoI3 has a really steep learning curve.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 octobre 2010 - 08:55 .