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Think like a general - fight like a Spartan?


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#1
1varangian

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This is actually a good marketing slogan. Sounds awesome.

I just watched 300 again. The visual style of the end credits, the Spartans, the film is clearly an inspiration for both Origins and DA2. 300 is highly stylized with enhanced realism and has amazing battle scenes. Being able to fight like the Spartans in 300 would be nothing but awesome in DA2.

But then I look at the gameplay videos. Yes, they are exaggerated. But the abilities and animations seen in the vids are actually in the game. That's what it does look like. Perhaps not at level 1, but later on at higher levels, for sure. Warriors and Rogues move at lightspeed like Flash, teleport and leap around with little regard to physics, and wield oversized weapons that look fake without proper mass. Animations look like they are missing several frames. The combat is much closer to anime than the enhanced realism of 300, unfortunately.

I know the marketing slogan is just that - marketing. It is not a literal promise how the game will look and play. But in this case, I really would want to fight like a Spartan. A reality enhanced but flesh and blood Spartan and not the dragonballz version.

A great RPG immerses the player in the story and the characters. To achieve that the gameplay has to be based on realism. The characters have to be believable. That realism can be enchanced so that it will look awesome in a game or a movie. 300 shows this as the movie is both believable and awesome. But from what I've seen DA2 is so much beyond enhanced realism it seems very immersion breaking.

I have to say I enjoy action games quite a bit and am a big fan of Ninja Gaiden, Assassins Creed etc.. I'm sure the combat in DA2 plays great too, but it just might be in the wrong game.

I truly hope I am wrong.

Modifié par 1varangian, 13 octobre 2010 - 05:48 .


#2
Wulfram

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So fight like a spartan doesn't mean "not on religious holidays"?

#3
AlexXIV

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Wulfram wrote...

So fight like a spartan doesn't mean "not on religious holidays"?


No it means that you fight half naked.

#4
ErichHartmann

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No serious historian takes 300 with a grain of salt. It's very entertaining but gets all the facts wrong. :) There was nothing realistic about the combat depicted.

#5
AlexXIV

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ErichHartmann wrote...

No serious historian takes 300 with a grain of salt. It's very entertaining but gets all the facts wrong. :) There was nothing realistic about the combat depicted.


Actually it was a propaganda movie for the war in Iraq. Bad, bad persians.

#6
Bullets McDeath

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Actually, it's a homosexual recruitment film. I haven't seen that many sweaty hardbodies in leather miniskirts since that time I drunkenly stumbled into a frat party.

#7
1varangian

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We should be more interested in the gameplay of DA2 than the history of Sparta or political agendas in movies.



In a game I'm not against a small group of high level characters being able to fight off an incredible number of enemies. As long as the elite warriors and rogues don't develop abilities that look like magic and generally move like cartoon characters.

#8
errant_knight

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I had the opposite reaction to that slogan. It made me want to bang my head into my keyboard repeatedly, but I made do with some serious eyerolling and mockery.

Modifié par errant_knight, 13 octobre 2010 - 07:35 .


#9
Rakumn

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outlaworacle wrote...

Actually, it's a homosexual recruitment film. I haven't seen that many sweaty hardbodies in leather miniskirts since that time I drunkenly stumbled into a frat party.


Hot.

But seriously, the only thing that movie could inspire was what the man mentioned. It had no affect on Dragon Age.

#10
thegreateski

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So we're going to stand in a line, make a shield wall with our heavily armored selves and a few thousand of our comrades, then stab people with spears as they try to break our formation?



Awesome.

#11
Gegenlicht

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When I heard 'fight like a Spartan' all I was thinking was, 'in Phalanx formation?'

#12
Guest_Puddi III_*

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1varangian wrote...

The combat is much closer to anime than the enhanced realism of 300, unfortunately.


"Fight like a ninja" is also part of their sloganeering.

#13
Bobad

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filaminstrel wrote...

1varangian wrote...

The combat is much closer to anime than the enhanced realism of 300, unfortunately.


"Fight like a ninja" is also part of their sloganeering.


Indeed, some were annoyed at only being able to play as a human, wait until they find out their human is limited to being Japanese!

#14
Gegenlicht

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filaminstrel wrote...

"Fight like a ninja" is also part of their sloganeering.


Which would be even sillier than fighting like a Spartan. A spy or assassin who actually gets into a fight has already demonstrated that they suck at their job.

#15
General Malor

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AlexXIV wrote...

No it means that you fight half naked.

No, all naked. It's the only way you could fight better than Leonidas and his bold Three-hundred. I mean think about all the statues of Greek gods, Heracles, Achilles(Not a god but half), Apollo, those guys were GODS! And they're always naked! So to fight like a god you gotta suit up to dress down.

But seriously historically accurate or not that movie rocked. It's not supposed to be a retelling, it's a damn action movie. I seriously feel some people are too stupid to not try to see something "intelligent" in just an action film.

But fun fact, if the army at Ostagar used 300's phalanx formation they would have lived. Was I the only person who saw the bottle neck they abandoned? Hell even in Kingdon of Heaven Balian used the choke point of "win". That always makes me mad when I play through again and have to watch them run out and meet the enemy in a field. I just keep hoping that time they'll stay put and destroy.

#16
DarthCaine

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"Think like Dante, fight like Kratos"

Modifié par DarthCaine, 13 octobre 2010 - 07:25 .


#17
Gegenlicht

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Right. If I had 299 naked, oiled up guys behind me, you can bet I'd be charging ahead like a berserker.

#18
Captain Crash

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I do like that slogan but "Fight like a Spartan..."


Sorry can only think of this when I hear that admittedly I havent watched 300 since it came out.   


hmmm they have similar beards,  this could be quite a fitting scene.  I really want to kick someone off one the cliffs over Kirkwall now! :P

Modifié par Captain Crash, 13 octobre 2010 - 07:27 .


#19
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Gegenlicht wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

"Fight like a ninja" is also part of their sloganeering.


Which would be even sillier than fighting like a Spartan. A spy or assassin who actually gets into a fight has already demonstrated that they suck at their job.


Well.. you can be an assassin in DAO.

I do think the marketing labels are a bit silly (or even headdesk worthy, as errant_knight puts it). But all I care about at this point is how it actually plays, not how the marketing department describes it.

#20
errant_knight

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Bobad wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

1varangian wrote...

The combat is much closer to anime than the enhanced realism of 300, unfortunately.


"Fight like a ninja" is also part of their sloganeering.


Indeed, some were annoyed at only being able to play as a human, wait until they find out their human is limited to being Japanese!

I guess that explains some of the more baffling animations.

Modifié par errant_knight, 13 octobre 2010 - 07:47 .


#21
Maconbar

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1varangian wrote...

This is actually a good marketing slogan. Sounds awesome.

I just watched 300 again. The visual style of the end credits, the Spartans, the film is clearly an inspiration for both Origins and DA2. 300 is highly stylized with enhanced realism and has amazing battle scenes. Being able to fight like the Spartans in 300 would be nothing but awesome in DA2.

But then I look at the gameplay videos. Yes, they are exaggerated. But the abilities and animations seen in the vids are actually in the game. That's what it does look like. Perhaps not at level 1, but later on at higher levels, for sure. Warriors and Rogues move at lightspeed like Flash, teleport and leap around with little regard to physics, and wield oversized weapons that look fake without proper mass. Animations look like they are missing several frames. The combat is much closer to anime than the enhanced realism of 300, unfortunately.

I know the marketing slogan is just that - marketing. It is not a literal promise how the game will look and play. But in this case, I really would want to fight like a Spartan. A reality enhanced but flesh and blood Spartan and not the dragonballz version.

A great RPG immerses the player in the story and the characters. To achieve that the gameplay has to be based on realism. The characters have to be believable. That realism can be enchanced so that it will look awesome in a game or a movie. 300 shows this as the movie is both believable and awesome. But from what I've seen DA2 is so much beyond enhanced realism it seems very immersion breaking.

I have to say I enjoy action games quite a bit and am a big fan of Ninja Gaiden, Assassins Creed etc.. I'm sure the combat in DA2 plays great too, but it just might be in the wrong game.

I truly hope I am wrong.


Please, praising 300 for its realism is silly.

#22
thegreateski

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Gegenlicht wrote...

When I heard 'fight like a Spartan' all I was thinking was, 'in Phalanx formation?'

Can you imagine the thrills?!

Press A to inch forward. Press X to stab with weapon. Press B to change weapon. Press Y to grunt!

#23
Gegenlicht

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filaminstrel wrote...

Well.. you can be an assassin in DAO.

I do think the marketing labels are a bit silly (or even headdesk worthy, as errant_knight puts it). But all I care about at this point is how it actually plays, not how the marketing department describes it.


Without wanting to really argue about what are indeed silly marketing labels, at least the Assassin Specialization deals in backstabbing people, which is really more like winning without fighting than plain old fighting.

Sadly enough, I do actually work in marketing myself, so I can actually tell that the idea isn't bad for appealing to the average customer, and I who isn't the average customer don't need to be marketed to cause I'm gonna buy it anyway.

#24
Gegenlicht

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thegreateski wrote...

Gegenlicht wrote...

When I heard 'fight like a Spartan' all I was thinking was, 'in Phalanx formation?'

Can you imagine the thrills?!

Press A to inch forward. Press X to stab with weapon. Press B to change weapon. Press Y to grunt!


Wouldn't that be rocking? Make it like a mini-game where you have to twist your fingers to keep your character in formation, and if the positioning of your shield is off, your entire phalanx gets wiped in no time.

#25
TheBlackBaron

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General Malor wrote...
But fun fact, if the army at Ostagar used 300's phalanx formation they would have lived. Was I the only person who saw the bottle neck they abandoned? Hell even in Kingdon of Heaven Balian used the choke point of "win". That always makes me mad when I play through again and have to watch them run out and meet the enemy in a field. I just keep hoping that time they'll stay put and destroy.


I think they Spartans fought in a phalanx formation for about five minutes in 300 - during the initial carge. After that it was "let's run around in bright red capes and speedos and impale the **** out of things", usually as individuals. Hoplites wore full bronze plate armor from head to toe and basically never, ever broke formation willingly.

I enjoyed 300, but it's got no place in a game that wants to be at least partially grounded in reality.