135 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

the_one_54321 wrote...

The differences you're listing between the settings are really as significant as you're making them out to be.
For one, we're given an individual from each of a number of species to directly interact with. And we're given dialog at length with each of these characters and even missions that deal specificaly with their back story and our relationship with them. You can spend as much time interacting with these individual characters through actual dialog and through overhearing "banter" as the entire length of the movie District 9. But instead of creacting this kind of development during this time, they just treat them like everyday companions and even have elaborate ways for you to form romantic relationships with some of them.

As I pointed out, even the prawn weren't as "inhuman" as you think--it was ultimately decided that the most human among them should be the most sympathetic, the hero. That just goes to show you how important it is for an audience to be able to identify with these characters.

District 9 focuses on our relationship with them. That is not the focus of ME2. They can afford to be different because so much time and energy is spent fleshing our our relationship with them and ultimately subverting it to show they're more human than we think, and the differences aren't that great. Christopher is a loving father who wants to save his people. His son is a bright, playful, friendly child.

[the_one_54321]

Saibh wrote...
District 9 focuses on our relationship with them. That is not the focus of ME2.

This is not wholely accurate. As I mentioned, stretches of ME2 that were themselves nearly the length of the whole of District 9 were completely focused on our relationship with the individual alien crew members. As side quests that were about becoming closer to the individuals, not as part of the central quest/goal/whathaveyou.

It's not an issue of length or bredth or depth. It's an issue of how they spent the time, because the time was already there.

Also in District 9 it's easily arguable that Christopher is meant as an example of what the species can be like if you give them a chance. I saw the behavior of the other prawns as a presentation of what anyone would be like under those circumstances. They were more "human" in their presentation than you are giving them credit for. It's just that hey weren't blatantly human like "look at these aliens and how they're just like humans but with different skins."

[habitat 67]

If the game was made up of sentient fungus and dancing mold spores, it would have trouble finding an audience. All three people that have issues with humanoid aliens should attempt writing a story without them. I am curious as to what you come up with. All I can think of is:



Amoeba1: <glow glow>

Amoeba2: <GLOW>

amoeba 1 absorbs amoeba 2, but doesn't burp as that would be humanoid.

[the_one_54321]

habitat 67 wrote...
If the game was made up of sentient fungus and dancing mold spores, it would have trouble finding an audience. All three people that have issues with humanoid aliens should attempt writing a story without them. I am curious as to what you come up with. All I can think of is:
Amoeba1:
Amoeba2:
amoeba 1 absorbs amoeba 2, but doesn't burp as that would be humanoid.

You're being facetious. No one is requesting that they present aliens in the way you suggest.

[ObserverStatus]

Anglerfish wrote...

hey, a portugese man of war

[Chugster]

well there are 2 reasons in my mind...firstly....the humanoid body is the most efficient...hency why most species evolve down that route. Secondly, its a game, its easier to have mosrtly humanoid as its easier to animate large amounts of people..

[habitat 67]

the_one_54321 wrote...
You're being facetious. No one is requesting that they present aliens in the way you suggest.

facetious? I happen to like glowing ameobas.

Explain a way then of introducing a sentient alien species which resembles nothing rehashed from Earth. It would be hard to do while still generating human interest. Humans like writing and reading about humans. The rare instances a story involves non human characters, they are usually given human characteristics.

Mass Effect has Thorians, Rachnis and Tresher Maws. I assume they aren't included on the council because their forms of being and communication are completely foriegn to the Humans/Turians/ Salarians, etc.

[Vena_86]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

EDIT: 

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
I get thingy when I see it in all the aliens, I guess that's my gripe. The lack of diversity in the alien bodies. I should have been more clear, apologies, everyone.

 

As much as I love the Mass Effect games, there are a few real big things that irritate me:

Firstly, why do all the aliens have arms and legs? Why do they look like humans with animal features?

This is explained in the first book. There are several possibilities:
Most advanced alien races have been created by an ancient one (reapers maybe?) or their evolution influenced, so that they all have humanoid features.
OR the biped/humanoid models is simple the most effective, so that it is bound to evolve over and over again. There was a third option but I forgot.

[Moondoggie]

This whole thing about Liaras apartment i really don't get. What would be wrong with human items? If you can call cutlery human anyways i think theres really only a few designs for utensils so i'd imagine it would be similar among inteligent life.



But i think saying "oh the aliens shouldn;t have human stuff" is the same as saying someone outside of Japan shouldn't have Japanese stuff and there are plenty in the west who love Japanese things or collect French tableware or whatever. What would be wrong with an alien buying human wares?

[Gorath Alpha]

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

And the reason for it is the huge, wide, deep chasm of distance between what really is SCIENCE Fiction, and the two fantasy universes from Roddenberry and Lucas.  Neither Star Trek nor Star Wars was SF.  Both were fantasies.  Both preferred simple plots, simple problems, and two-dimesional characterization. 

Don't get me entirely wrong here, though.  I really had a good time watching the original Star Wars, and also the improved versions of it.  I was far less well impressed with any of the other Lucas / SW features.  I did not like Star Trek very well, although a few of the Second Generation stories and characters were better realized, as long as either the Borg or Q (well, let's include every other Klingon other than Warf, also, I think, as less than two dimensional) were left completely out of anything.

Mass Effect had to be designed with those huge misapprehensions that the ordinary public, as opposed to a discerning SF audience, would expect, and that's what you get -- humans wearing silly temporary prosthetics on their ears, foreheads, necks, etc. 

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 14 octobre 2010 - 06:19 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

I guess OP was looking for aliens like you can make with SPORE. We have the hanar they're as non human looking as one can get if every alien looked like them or the Rachni I really doubt anyone would like or romance them.



As far as Liara having human knives and the likes there are two explanations one she's human in form anyway and the standard knives system works just fine for her hands or two sense she keeps shepards armor, has shown interest in humans sense working on the Normandy, and has human fish in her tank it shows she has a liking for the species or at least the culture of it and incorporates things from that culture into her daily life. Humans do this as well if we like a curtain culture we're bound to decorate our house with thing that remind us of it or that are made there we also learn to cook like that culture if one is so inclined or listen to their music so its not beyond reason Liara has some human things around her home she also has Prothean things too.



In theory there is a species out there that look like us already in existence they term them humioids they're just taller then an average human with full black eyes (no white) and really don't like us too much go to the library to research more on them so if another species looks similar to us yet was spawned on another world does that not make them alien enough? The tern alien is simply anything that is outside ones culture or world technically I'm an alien to all countries in the world except US and vise versa for everyone else in the world



So would you prefer humans to be the non innovated types and fallow the lead of everyone else? Why ? If you prefer all humans to live in non innovated state like N.Korea I think we would've even failed to get into space much less improve our lives under such circumstances. I would not want to live in such a world.



If you're really against aliens in 90% of the sci fi world why not make your own up? I mean the freak demons coming out of Devil Man people like so maybe someone will like the freaks you come up with too.

[Schneidend]

The complaint about humanoid aliens is ridiculous. For one thing, only the asari, batarians, drell, and MAYBE the volus are even humanoid in any sense of the term. The rest are either simply bipedal, or something else entirely. As Antichri5 put it from the beginning, arms and legs are useful. Evolution is a process that causes useful traits to perpetuate themselves over time. Standing upright allows you to better spot and avoid larger predators, and opposable thumbs allow you to manipulate complex tools. These are the only real similarities humans have with races like the krogan, turians, salarians, and quarians.



Hell, the krogan even have eyes on the sides of their heads, because their world is so dangerous that even after they achieved the adaptations that make a species a dominant environment changer, they were still essentially a prey species.



tl;dr: Evolution uses what works. The end.

[Praetor Knight]

Vena_86 wrote...

OR the biped/humanoid models is simple the most effective, so that it is bound to evolve over and over again. There was a third option but I forgot.

I'd like to add that the humanoid bipedal form is not the most effective or efficient, but it is a platform that allows for higher order thinking, but not a requisite (dolphins & whales anyone?).

also, looking at humans, gorillas and chimps; humans are the only one of the three that has the capacity to evaluate it's environment in a critical manner and not be simply surviving (gorillas don't farm) and genetically very little separates them.

So with ME, the bipedal humanoid form has it's cons as well as its pros, but being a Spacefaring current or former Citadel race requires access to Mass Relays once you can leave planetary orbit...

so for me at least, having both current and former Citadel races bipedal is not such a problem, especially if evolution was beinging lead by whoever created the reapers, with the reapers carry on the process in their own way once those creators were out of the picture (reapers had to be created right?).

[Praetor Knight]

also, archaeologically speaking, there has been documented development of similar technology without contact with other cultures that use that kind of tech, where cultures on different continents using very similar tech from bows and arrows, to spears and other common items,



so as long as you have thumbs I figure tools will soon follow.

[Kary Tyrrell]

Could an Gas-like lifeform even leave its planet? I mean, even with superior Intelligence, without the right toos (arms, tails, tentacles...) to create spaceships wouldn't they just be traped on there planet? Would they even be recognized as a lifeform itself?

[Zygodac21]

To quote the Reapers “We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.” this is why.

[Lucy Glitter]

Vena_86 wrote...

This is explained in the first book. There are several possibilities:
Most advanced alien races have been created by an ancient one (reapers maybe?) or their evolution influenced, so that they all have humanoid features.
OR the biped/humanoid models is simple the most effective, so that it is bound to evolve over and over again. There was a third option but I forgot.

If someone had said this 2 pages ago... !

They would have said it 2 pages ago.

Thanks

[Leeroi]

Hanar, Reapers, Rachni... That's like 1/3 of the alien species that doesn't resemble humans even remotely...

Modifié par Leeroi, 14 octobre 2010 - 08:36 .

[Archontor]

i see some points about how human aliens are personality wise but one of the messages they were trying to get across was that these beings were capeable of the same emotional flaws, instincts neuroses joys and motivations to quote Kaiden "They're saints and jerks just like us"

[Hackerspawn]

To Topic

for all i care all the Aliens in Mass Effect including the Humans are only organisms in a Petri Dish invented or breed by the Reapers or an even mightier beeing to be harvested and therefor designed the way they or it needs them to be.

And on the other Hand be happy they didn't went Bethesda on all the Races and made them even more Humanly looking like In Oblivion. For all that are puzzled for what I'm talking about... compare TES III and TES IV Khajit and Argonians.

I'm happy with the looks of Mass Effect !

Modifié par Hackerspawn, 15 octobre 2010 - 02:03 .

[Kadi]

I think Bioware also wanted you to be able to connect with the aliens, example is, Hanar or Elcor, now in Mass Effect I first met an Elcor , I was uncomfortable (not sure why) by how slow they spoke yet was intrigued at how they tell us their emotion before their sentence, because they lack the appropriate tone. I found that as Alien enough to say " okay thats different" yet I could connect with it as I was reminded of a few foreign friends I had. who could speak english but couldnt pronounce things propperley so ended up using diagrams and hand gestures.



and the Hanar, at first i was like, "what the heck? a talking jelly fish!" and as I interacted with it, I realised that sure it was alien enough to slightly repulse me, but it spoke like someone in need of help, just wanted to raise awareness of it's beliefs, and humans do that too, so I while being repulsed could connect with it.



sure it would be nice to see maybe a few new species's and even perhaps ones that use wings, but lack arms and legs, or ones that are like slugs, but have supirior biotic abilities due to having no arms and legs, tails n such, but due to what space they can use on disc and all that tech stuff which i dont understand lol, I understand that it would be easier with a few races who are very humanoid then having to make 20 races, which 8 or so are humanoid and the rest are completley different from one another with different styled limbs, bodies, animations etc etc, and im happy with it. though a gas creature would be kinda cool, lets see what they do with ME3 =)

[Onyx Jaguar]

I believe the eyebrows are suppose to be painted on or some nonsense like that



I am too lazy to quote its relevance



gallops away

[The Grey Ranger]

There are some other issues that are imposed on body type, considering we're discussing intelligent, technological species. There has to be enough body mass/energy devoted to a well developed brain, so that the species can have higher order cognitive function and some form of appendage that it can use to manipulate it's enviroment.



Other than there being some external force (the reapers) acting to control the path of evolution there is no real reason to for a species to bipedal and upright, aside from story or fan service.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I originally had a long post here, but re-reading some of the stuff you said was just........ You sound like some kind of OCD to me.

o_o

How so? I can't tell if that's trying to be insulting or not. Also, OCD is... really not in anything I posted. At all. Just no.

Because the stuff that you have picked up on is blatant nitpicking. It is pretty much the highest rank of nitpicking i have ever encountered in my life. I mean seriously, you're pissed because of knives? It is a handle with a sharp edge, one of the most basic forms of cutting equipment. You think the aliens are not intelligent enough to create such a thing?

And i read you can immerse yourself in dragon age. You can immerse yourself in that completely farfetched game universe, but not a game that has gone into detail about how certain species have evolved and their society has developed using proper science? OKay.