135 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

 You monster. 

[Raokin]

Vena_86 wrote...

OR the biped/humanoid models is simple the most effective, so that it is bound to evolve over and over again. There was a third option but I forgot.

Bipedal locomotion isn't more effective in general, but it certainly seems to be for tool use.

It doesn't seem absurd for an alien species capable of interstellar travel to have evolved traits analogous to those that helped us as humans create advanced technology. It does seem unrealistic to depict all alien species as humanoid, but in the ME universe, we're mainly only dealing with a handful, those in the galaxy that are most similar to us.  On a psychological level, they would obviously need to be very social and to have some sort of advanced communication (not necessarily vocal, which hanar and rachni have covered). Physically, yes, they could have made species such as asari and drell look more alien, but  as others have been saying, that would most likely get in the way of players being able to relate to alien characters which, it seems to me, is a big part of the enjoyability of many sci-fi tv shows, movies, games, etc.

I sometimes wonder how rachni were supposed to have developed flight capabilities without appendages similar to arms and legs and how hanar were capable of flying starships to save the drell from extinction when it is said in game that they are clumsy on land and can't even hold a gun. That being said, I loved how the rachni queen described their method of communication in terms of music and a kind of telepathic resonance. They were the most interesting and truly alien species in the game, I think. I enjoy interacting with more humanoid aliens, but I'd like to see more species like the rachni as well.

[SpectreSeven]

You do realise that 1. humans are the new guys and 2. the game hints at evolution being meddled with (the protheans and hanar are a prime example)

[Pacifien]

marshalleck wrote...
What if those gas-bags on Eden Prime were supposed to be your main companions, and Kaidan wasn't there? How many people instinctively just shot them, instead of walking up and trying to communicate with them? I'd be willing to bet almost nobody thought to try and talk to them. 

You know, that's a good point. The thought of communicating with them never crossed my mind, but I didn't shoot them either. I actually go out of my way to avoid running the crab-like creatures on Virmire over with my Mako, too.

I wonder if people found out about the Shifty Looking Cow because they tried desperately to communicate with it only to be swindled instead.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
The argument would be, of course, well why can't they be like us? Uh, well Jimmy, the chance of having another completely different species on an entirely different planet evolve in the exact same way as us is... 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (etc.) to one chance. It's pretty slim. For a whole lot of species? Um, yeah. No.

I'd like to see how you derived those odds.

I was thinking something similar.  It's possible that evolution limits the diversity of highly intelligent life in ways we can't anticipate.  We don't even know what we don't know about evolution.  Until we start gathering biological samples from all over the galaxy, the only safe assumption is that a completely accurate account of how life originated and developed would shock the hell out of us.

[Zaxares]

Pacifien wrote...

You know, that's a good point. The thought of communicating with them never crossed my mind, but I didn't shoot them either. I actually go out of my way to avoid running the crab-like creatures on Virmire over with my Mako, too.

I also did my best to avoid shooting or running over any of the Pod Crabs, Space Beetles, Space Cows and Gas Bags too!

Except the Pyjaks. Filthy, stealing vermin! > I shoot them with the Mako's Mass Accelerator cannon and LAUGH at their flaming corpses.

... Nah, I kid. I did my best to spare them too. Although sometimes they would get caught in the crossfire between me and the Geth on Eletania.

The only critter I deliberately go out of my way to kill is the Shifty-Looking Cow. (After he steals my credits. ) He always gets a shotgun to the face with Inferno or Polonium Rounds.

Modifié par Zaxares, 16 octobre 2010 - 01:57 .

[tnfstc]

I figure since they all speak the same language its because thats how the reapers wanted them... So just put that for all your answers? Lol *Is lazy*

[Saibh]

Pacifien wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
What if those gas-bags on Eden Prime were supposed to be your main companions, and Kaidan wasn't there? How many people instinctively just shot them, instead of walking up and trying to communicate with them? I'd be willing to bet almost nobody thought to try and talk to them. 

You know, that's a good point. The thought of communicating with them never crossed my mind, but I didn't shoot them either. I actually go out of my way to avoid running the crab-like creatures on Virmire over with my Mako, too.

I wonder if people found out about the Shifty Looking Cow because they tried desperately to communicate with it only to be swindled instead.

I felt bad during Overlord because I kept running them over with my Hammerhead over and over and over. They were just always in my way. And then the Hammerhead won't stop griping about me shooting them for some reason.

Like, hello, they're roadkill!

[Saibh]

tnfstc wrote...

I figure since they all speak the same language its because thats how the reapers wanted them... So just put that for all your answers? Lol *Is lazy*

Translators. They get referenced in the books, I know, and maybe the Codex. The only time I recall an in-game example is FemShep talking to Thane. He always calls her "siha" and she always says her translator glitched.

[Praetor Knight]

Saibh wrote...

tnfstc wrote...

I figure since they all speak the same language its because thats how the reapers wanted them... So just put that for all your answers? Lol *Is lazy*

Translators. They get referenced in the books, I know, and maybe the Codex. The only time I recall an in-game example is FemShep talking to Thane. He always calls her "siha" and she always says her translator glitched.

yup translators, here is a wiki link to the codec that details it from ME's Bringing Down the Sky, I'm not sure if there is any info on that anywhere else. http://masseffect.wi...ng_Down_the_Sky

how else could you speak to those big stupid jellyfish? or elcor? hanar have bioluminescence and elcor use pheromones to communicate.

[King Killoth]

in all honesty if you look at the diversity of life here on earth you can see that all vertebrates follow the basic outline of four limbs two eyes one mouth a neck head central spine and internal organs. this is due to evolution weeding out useless traits and keeping the best. using this as a reference you would assume that this would also happen on other worlds only the most useful traits would survive to space age. having more limbs draws more energy blood and using more of the brain for locomotion than other functions thus important parts of the brain fail to evolve. look to insects their brain evolved to work with in its limits the multiple limbs and the small size. they have been around a lot longer than mammals but are drastically inferior to vertebrates. now depending on the environment of the home world of these aliens you would see only the best traits to come of it. bipedal movement works for us because it allows us to use our upper limps to build and work. if we never evolved this trait we would not be as smart as we are now. we would never have used a rock to break open an egg or a stick to bring fire. we would be like dogs using our mouth as a tool. so bipedal locomotion would be the logical step for intelligence and would be the clear trait in space traveling civilizations. forward looking eyes are key to seeing farther and seeing more clear. if humans has side facing eyes like horses and rabbit than we might not have been able to in front of us and never noticed the stick or rock as a tool. forward eyes improve our perception of our environment and allowed us to build our intelligence. so again two forward eyes are a key to intelligence and it would make seance to be on a space traveling species. multiple eyes might be found if their home world has low light or thick atmosphere in witch more eyes are needed but in general aliens would look similar to us because it works best in this format for intelligence.

Modifié par King Killoth, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:42 .

[Praetor Knight]

King Killoth wrote...

in all honesty if you look at the diversity of life here on earth you can see that all vertebrates follow the basic outline of four limbs two eyes one mouth a neck head central spine and internal organs. this is due to evolution weeding out useless traits and keeping the best. using this as a reference you would assume that this would also happen on other worlds only the most useful traits would survive to space age. having more limbs drays more energy blood and using more of the brain for locomotion than other functions thus important parts of the brain fail to evolve. look to insects their brain evolved to work with in its limits the multiple limbs and the small size. they have been around a lot longer than mammals but are drastically inferior to vertebrates. now depending on the environment of the home world of these aliens you would see only the best traits to come of it. bipedal movement works for us because it allows us to use our upper limps to build and work. if we never evolved this trait we would not be as smart as we are now. we would never have used a rock to break open an egg or a stick to bring fire. we would be like dogs using our mouth as a tool. so bipedal locomotion would be the logical step for intelligence and would be the clear trait in space traveling civilizations. forward looking eyes are key to seeing farther and seeing more clear. if humans has side facing eyes like horses and rabbit than we might not have been able to in front of us and never noticed the stick or rock as a tool. forward eyes improve our perception of our environment and allowed us to build our intelligence. so again two forward eyes are a key to intelligence and it would make seance to be on a space traveling species. multiple eyes might be found if their home world has low light or thick atmosphere in witch more eyes are needed but in general aliens would look similar to us because it works best in this format for intelligence.

In regards to eyes forward facing is found mostly on predatory species to better zero in on prey and have better focus for depth perception.

while horses other species and krogan have their eyes wide to the side. Since they are prey species, their eyes are more to watch for predators, then to visually track.

Also, a key to tool use is having thumbs to have a more stable grip. Birds, primates and couple other species use tools, but only man has the mental faculty to look to the future, and have the capacity to learn from experience in creative ways and have self-awareness.

There have been tests conducted with chimps and other primates compared to young children, where both groups were able to learn how solve simple puzzles but when the game would be changed or modified only the young children were able to adapt to the new conditions or figure out their own techniques to solve the puzzles. the primates simply copied the behavior they watched.

Also Dolphins are the 2nd smartest species on Earth and they do not have a bipedal shape or thumbs! http://news.discover...-explained.html
http://www.timesonli...icle6973994.ece

[LostJ]

I once read on some forums discussing Darwin, that humans are the dominant race on Earth cause of our humanoid form. If that's really true, so it's safe to assume that the aliens have the humanoid traits for the same reason (except the Hanar and the Elcor who have the best form for their home planets).

[King Killoth]

in the case of aquatic life the rules are different water supports the body in ways air dose not. locomotion is inherently different. legs are not needed but fins and tails are. dolphins have evolved their intelligence from this ability to use more brain due to problem solving and sonar. but it is not the same as human or ape intelligence. where tools are used to solve the problem you would never find a dolphin making a school to learn in or shelter to live in. it has not the need for either. intelligence is only furthered by obstacles. food to fast invent spear home to far away invent car moon out of reach invent rocket. the dolphin would never need to have those obstacles for in the ocean it has reached its limitation.

Edit part

as for the krogen side faceing eyes it is explaned in the codex

The krogan evolved in a lethal ecology. Over millions of years, the grim
struggle to survive larger predators, virulent disease, and resource
scarcity on their homeworld, Tuchanka, turned the lizards into
quintessential survivors. Perhaps the most telling indicator of
Tuchanka's lethality is the krogan eyes. Although
they are a predators species by any standard definition, their eyes
evolved to be wide-set, as any Earth prey species like deer and cattle.
Krogan eyes have a 240-degree arc of vision, better suited for spotting
enemies sneaking up on them than for pursuit.

Modifié par King Killoth, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:21 .

[King Killoth]

LostJ wrote...

I once read on some forums discussing Darwin, that humans are the dominant race on Earth cause of our humanoid form. If that's really true, so it's safe to assume that the aliens have the humanoid traits for the same reason (except the Hanar and the Elcor who have the best form for their home planets).

as said befor evloution is about the best traits for the enviroment. the elcor are the best example for that. high gravity world they needed to be big and strong but they still developed tools and cuilter.

[Phaedon]

Well, I'd be surprised if you liked the Star Trek universe. Most races are just humans with some simple variations.

[deleted]

LostJ wrote...

I once read on some forums discussing Darwin, that humans are the dominant race on Earth cause of our humanoid form. If that's really true, so it's safe to assume that the aliens have the humanoid traits for the same reason (except the Hanar and the Elcor who have the best form for their home planets).

One theory is that humans evolved bipedal motion because early forms of them had to leave the dense forest areas in favor of plains due to the Great Rift in modern day East Africa.
We evolved to be the dominant species thanks to our intelligence and tools (opposable thumbs are a massive bonus as well.) If you strand a human in most environments, his human form will prove to be an encumbrance. We're not as fast as cheetahs, as resilient as elephants or amphibious like the platypus.

[Severyx]

The simple fact is that it is far easier to relate/feel emotion to/for a humanoid form than a non-humanoid form. Would you consider a rachni as a love interest? No? But a different species who lives entirely in an envirosuit and has a different amino base is okay? Yes, personality plays a part, but I can guarantee you Tali would not be as popular a character if she was instead a super-intelligent gas-bag.



Having humanoids is an integral part of any successful story, no matter how diverse the setting is. Personally, I think Bioware did a good job of diversifying the humanoid form while still adhering to this idea. If you want focus on non-humanoids, go play Spore.

[deleted]

I thought the following description from page 2 was very well put.

Pacifien wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
*snip*
Alright, so, I can accept one or two alien species having a similar structure to humans, like I said originally, I can suspend my disbelief to that.

I get thingy when I see it in all the aliens, I guess that's my gripe. The lack of diversity in the alien bodies. I should have been more clear, apologies, everyone.

Problem with just about all science fiction created in a visual medium is that you're unlikely to find huge diversity in alien design. A good deal of that is limitation of the medium, but for a game where you're not limited to human actors and can manipulate the environments quite readily, you'd think you could get away with a great deal more variety.

Only from reading up on how the developers designed certain aliens, from seeing commentary on other science fiction shows, the greatest hurdle in getting completely off the wall with alien design is the human audience. To understand the environment and the creatures that inhabit it, they need to be able to relate to them.

You see this

and you're instantly sympathetic in spite of the fact the cat has a sword and wants to stab you to death.

Age old question: why does Liara have eyebrows? Psychology of reading faces. Ever seen someone without eyebrows? Something is off, something about them is not right, somehow they are a bit more sinister. Now, of course, we know plenty of eyebrowless Asari who we don't deem as sinister beings, but Liara being designed as a love interest probably needed a distinctly human aesthetic. I don't doubt that if you introduce two new people to the character and show one a Liara with eyebrows and another person sees the one without, the person who saw the one with eyebrows will describe a character with a great more emotion displayed on her face.

Even the psychology of mind, if I try to describe my concept for how an adaptive, transient artificial intelligence like the geth can work, people don't follow me because I'm describing something completely different from the human mind.

Mass Effect is designed for a large audience in the manner of Star Trek, Star Wars, Farscape and a multitude of other science fiction/science fantasy/speculative fiction creative works. While I am a huge fan of hard science fiction, I have been disappointed time and again with the various visual mediums trying to capture such a concept in regards to aliens. So I don't ever expect it. Such an environment panders to a very small group which doesn't make a lot of business sense.

[Sursion]

Humans are bipedal for a reason. It works. Name another bipedal animal on Earth? Name another intellegent animal on Earth? The two go hand in hand.

Think about this before you rant: Can it use a chair comfortably? Can it use a bed? These sort of things are required for everyday life. Not many body configurations can support these.

[TuringPoint]

It wouldn't hurt if they showcased what made the other races great quite a bit more.

I'm also not so sure the portrayal of humanity is all that accurate. Six different opinions? For six different people? That's not my experience. To some extent that's true, but only in that all humans think independently and have different experiences. Wouldn't this be true of any sentient species?

Maybe you can chalk Samara's comment to being an older, more conservative being.

Maybe it goes something like this: Asari mentality tends toward individualism, but focused towards individual strength, because they don't have sexual dimorphism, or even two sexes. Turian mentality is more obedient? That's hard to pin down. They seem pretty similar to us. Quarians have the whole "mostly beneficial" microorganisms deal and the suits. Salarian's could be more individualistic than humans except for their amphibious nature.

In any case, Mass Effect is better than Star Trek or to some extent Star Wars in terms of how it portrays alien viewpoints. It's just not that much better, and it exaggerates humanity's individualism. The "diverse" genetic structure is something of an exaggeration as well.

Modifié par Alocormin, 22 novembre 2010 - 11:45 .

[maxut85]

yes much of mass effect doesn't make sense. Who cares ? 

[Fro_McJoe]

Compared to any other sci-fi franchise that has a video game component, Mass Effect goes above and beyond in realism. No pew-pew lasers, no planets being blow-up. and besides the Asari (which are pretty different in other aspects) no humans with pointy ears or blue coloring. This is the most realist Sci-fi series (with aliens) I have ever seen. Be happy!

[Katamariguy]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Good luck with finding a universe you can connect with, it'll be a long quest.

http://en.wikipedia....xpedition_(book)

[kaff33nd]

Here's my 2 cents:

The OP says the game presents all species from a humanist point of view, and other posters say that this is true or false to some or other degree. In my opinion, it is remarkable that of all the species on this ONE PLANET called Earth we have thousands of species (some very intelligent) but outside of the Sol system there are only VERY HUMAN alien species. I like the idea of a gas cloud species, or a species visible only in the infra red. Or a hive-mind, or any other species totally ALIEN to humans. Face facts people, Bioware just anthropomorhpised every species in galactic space. They apologise, complain, remark in human ways (Excuse me... Private CONVERSAT-ION). Not only are all alien species in ME very human, they are also very 20th century North American. Where are the augmented humans? The cybernetically divergent humans? Why are political views so cross-species? Why do aliens like Thane quoting (or even reading) Thomas Hobbes? Answer: Because only humans play BioWare games. BioWare appear to lack imagination. Let's keep in mind that ME would only be believable to peoples who are NOT human. It's written by humans, for humans. It's abstract as well. It's left to we players to IMAGINE genetic diversity. Volus: "Oh dear..." "I am a biotic god!". Hanar: "this one is pleased". Why is it using human english speaking conventions like an expression of pleasure? Why couldn't it say "This one make more human goods available. Pay price for acceptance of product. Relinquish capital for desires and recieve them".? Or why can'tt the Asdari say "we have heard the voice of your ancestors and have pondered it's meaning for a Quasiant of time, with concluding acceptance of diverse interests"? Or why can't a Volus trader say "You make offer and I accept if offer is sturdy"? Or a Turian say: "the strength of our band supercedes Human rights to colonise Xianxi". Why? Because it wouldn't mean a thing to the player. The problem with making a sci-fi game without requiring the suspension of disbelief is that the resulting game would be boring due to miscommunication. Does that give the devs license to be uncreative? Hey, it's their game, I guess they could make all aliens single - white - females with huge mammaries if they wanted to. We're not required to love every BioWare game they make. It's personal taste. And I agree with the OP that Asari are American's with blue skin and tentacle hair. Turians have tough human skin. Krogan are Humans with turtle shells. And Quarians are Americans with very 1980s respirators.



What get's me is the lack of diversity in the objects of the galaxy. Seriously, every vehicle in the galaxy is the same model car? A red one? Please....