350 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

JohnEpler wrote...

Except this isn't what we're doing. This isn't something we've ever done, at any point. I know many people are convinced that whenever we mention any kind of DLC that's released near the on-disc product that it's stuff we just tore out of the main game to sell for an extra price, but that's not true. DLC of any sort is budgeted and worked on in a completely separate fashion from the main game. For the most part, we need to be completely locked down content-wise a good two or three months in advance. More is preferable, of course, but there's a minimum of at least a month and a half.

Anything and everything that's worked on as PRC is both budgeted and worked on completely separately from the main game. Sometimes, the timelines intersect a bit - writers tend to be done with the game a little sooner than anyone else, so they've got some downtime to write dialogue and such. But we've never gone in and stripped something from the main game just so we could sell it after the fact. As it is, most of our projects end up in a lot of 14 hour days and long weekends at the office just so we can finish what you're actually getting on the disc. Nevermind extra content for us to cut so we can later repackage it and resell it. That just doesn't happen.

Of course, I work for the company, so I'm certain some people wouldn't believe me if I told them rain is wet. That's their prerogative! For the rest, though, I figured I'd chime in and dispel some of the fears.

The thing is, I don't see how this means anything except "We decided to screw you before we started work on the game, rather than half way through"

[upsettingshorts]

Wulfram wrote...
The thing is, I don't see how this means anything except "We decided to screw you before we started work on the game, rather than half way through"

I'd love to see your logical proof of how you reached that conclusion.  So I can pick it apart, I mean.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:07 .

[Dave of Canada]

Wulfram wrote...

The thing is, I don't see how this means anything except "We decided to screw you before we started work on the game, rather than half way through"

How is screwing you over? They made content on a different budget with a different time table. They didn't say "HEY. THIS CONTENT. CUT IT AND SELL IT.".  I could see it if you were stuck with say... two characters of each class but one rogue, the DLC character being a rogue to balance it out, however the DLC character only expands on what you've already got.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:08 .

[marshalleck]

DLC whines are soooooo six years ago.

[DAOME2FTW]

This looks really cool, Might of the sten? qurani swords were the most awesome looking thing in DAO, i hop this is like asala. plus the staff looks like the staff of parlathan, which looks like the one in the trailer. but yeeeaaah... the bonus character is chuck norris...

[Dave of Canada]

marshalleck wrote...

DLC whines are soooooo six years ago.

I don't know. I still complain when a company lets us purchase an unlock code for something that was supposed to be in the main launch, like the RE5 Versus mode / SF4 alternate costumes or something.

[Dave of Canada]

slimgrin wrote...

I feel goddamn sorry for those gamers who never got to meet goddamn Zaeed.

One of my favs from ME2.

"SHEPARD, OPEN THIS GODDAMN DOOR."

[marshalleck]

Dave of Canada wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

DLC whines are soooooo six years ago.

I don't know. I still complain when a company lets us purchase an unlock code for something that was supposed to be in the main launch, like the RE5 Versus mode / SF4 alternate costumes or something.

Oh. I have difficulty sympathizing with that conundrum, because I can't help but yawn each time a new RE title is announced. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:12 .

[-Semper-]

Merced256 wrote...

amrose2 wrote...

It basically raises the price tag for the game to 65-70 dollars for the "full" game

Unacceptable 

I would agree except that, as was pointed out to me, you get this additional character if you preorder the regular game. So you get the content essentially for free if you preorder. Personally i don't like them developing content side by side and then splitting some of it off for DLC or the like, but in this case there is no additional cost IF you were to preorder. Personally i don't preorder games, so i'm wondering if this will be part of an insert in the game box you'd pick up at a store like the cerberus network was for ME2.

now if you compare the preorder price of the regular game you will notice that it's 10 bucks above the line. at least the pc version in europe costs 55€ as a preorder, that's 11€ above the boxed version sitting at the shelf. ea just want to dictate the price which is easy with preorder packs.

Modifié par -Semper-, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:14 .

[Wulfram]

Dave of Canada wrote...


How is screwing you over? They made content on a different budget with a different time table.

All that means is that the decision to keep this content out of the game happened earlier in the process. 

It's irrelevant whether they made the content then decided "Hey, let's only give that to people prepared to buy a pig in a poke", or whether they first decided "Hey, let's make part of the game only available to people prepared to buy based on rubbish screenshots and shaky videos we keep telling people to ignore" and then made it.

[upsettingshorts]

Wulfram wrote...
All that means is that the decision to keep this content out of the game happened earlier in the process. 

That's quite a case of entitlement you've got on your hands.

[Leonia]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
All that means is that the decision to keep this content out of the game happened earlier in the process. 

That's quite a case of entitlement you've got on your hands.

Watch out, it might be contagious.

[upsettingshorts]

leonia42 wrote...
Watch out, it might be contagious.

I'll be fine, I've had the vaccine:  Perspective.

[nightcobra]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

leonia42 wrote...
Watch out, it might be contagious.

I'll be fine, I've had the vaccine:  Perspective.

good on ya:wizard:

[Wulfram]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
All that means is that the decision to keep this content out of the game happened earlier in the process. 

That's quite a case of entitlement you've got on your hands.

Bioware are entitled to screw us.  That's what business is about.

I just don't see why people find it necessary to cheer as we get steadily worse deals for our money. 

And arguments such as the one put forward by Mr Epler insult our intelligence.

[John Epler]

Wulfram wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...


How is screwing you over? They made content on a different budget with a different time table.

All that means is that the decision to keep this content out of the game happened earlier in the process. 

It's irrelevant whether they made the content then decided "Hey, let's only give that to people prepared to buy a pig in a poke", or whether they first decided "Hey, let's make part of the game only available to people prepared to buy based on rubbish screenshots and shaky videos we keep telling people to ignore" and then made it.

Except the decision isn't between 'do we release this as DLC' and 'do we put it on disk', but rather 'do we release this as DLC' and 'do we not release it'. We do not have unlimited time and resources. We cannot simply put every piece of content we can think of on-disc, as it's not being completed during the development process. There is, simply, never enough time to do everything you want to - otherwise, if you decide to add every bit of content you can think of to the on-disc product, you're never going to release your game.

It's fine if you don't believe me, or don't agree with me - that's cool! Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But at this point, it seems obvious that debating this with you is pointless, and so I will withdraw from this discussion.

[Wulfram]

If those are the only arguments you have, then withdrawing is likely wise.

[Leonia]

Wulfram wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
All that means is that the decision to keep this content out of the game happened earlier in the process. 

That's quite a case of entitlement you've got on your hands.

Bioware are entitled to screw us.  That's what business is about.

I just don't see why people find it necessary to cheer as we get steadily worse deals for our money. 

And arguments such as the one put forward by Mr Epler insult our intelligence.

I laughed. Out loud. Mr. Epler is a developer, what he said is fact. Regardless if you want to believe it or not, you really don't have much of a leg to stand on if you want to argue against what he said.

And the vast majority of people are NOT cheering for Bioware on these forums, hence the thread I started to thank them. It was a chance for a more reasonable minority to make their voices heard over the majority of doomsayers that were enraged that Bioware would dare offer them some free content for pre-ordering.

Modifié par leonia42, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:28 .

[mellifera]

Hah, he's not arguing, he's stating what happens in the game developing cycle. If you want to interpret it as Epler lying and cackling in front of his computer for deceiving the poor brainless sheep who choose to believe what he says rather than rant and rave about the big BioWare conspiracy, then that's your prerogative.

[Wulfram]

leonia42 wrote...

I laughed. Out loud. Mr. Epler is a developer, what he said is fact. Regardless if you want to believe it or not, you really don't have much of a leg to stand on if you want to argue against what he said.

I have not disputed him on truth, but on relevance.

[Adanu]

JohnEpler wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

My only issue with these sorts of things is that they purposely withhold content just to charge more...

This, makes one wonder how many quests are going to be cut out of the game just to be readded as paid DLC later on. Gotta love the new EA Bioware.  

Except this isn't what we're doing. This isn't something we've ever done, at any point. I know many people are convinced that whenever we mention any kind of DLC that's released near the on-disc product that it's stuff we just tore out of the main game to sell for an extra price, but that's not true. DLC of any sort is budgeted and worked on in a completely separate fashion from the main game. For the most part, we need to be completely locked down content-wise a good two or three months in advance. More is preferable, of course, but there's a minimum of at least a month and a half.

Anything and everything that's worked on as PRC is both budgeted and worked on completely separately from the main game. Sometimes, the timelines intersect a bit - writers tend to be done with the game a little sooner than anyone else, so they've got some downtime to write dialogue and such. But we've never gone in and stripped something from the main game just so we could sell it after the fact. As it is, most of our projects end up in a lot of 14 hour days and long weekends at the office just so we can finish what you're actually getting on the disc. Nevermind extra content for us to cut so we can later repackage it and resell it. That just doesn't happen.

Of course, I work for the company, so I'm certain some people wouldn't believe me if I told them rain is wet. That's their prerogative! For the rest, though, I figured I'd chime in and dispel some of the fears.

Let me be clear here. Stuff like the stone prisoner where you simply did not have the time for it is fine. YOu got it in after and made it that anyone with a new game could get it. DLC after was added because of time and money to allow it. I have no problem with either of these sort of deals, as it makes sense that you need to pay for DLC because of the resources involved.

What I cannot and *WON'T* accept is the notion of *only* getting a character *if you prerder 4-5 months in advance*. Other devs have come out and said that things are still in production, as such, things will still be changing a bit, so you have some time to put this character in. This is money milking at it's worst. I am a reasonable customer and I enjoy BIoware games for the most part... but I see nothing that shows me that you cannot put this character into the game without pre ordering.

A company needs to have it's products bought to survive. I don't debate this. However, business *ethics* Surrounding that still concern me. Bioware business ethics thus far have been a bit on the edge, but excusable until now.

That being said, please clarify if you mean party member or player character skin/model with this edition.

[FitShaced]

Wulfram wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I laughed. Out loud. Mr. Epler is a developer, what he said is fact. Regardless if you want to believe it or not, you really don't have much of a leg to stand on if you want to argue against what he said.

I have not disputed him on truth, but on relevance.

But everything he has said has been relevant.

[Dave of Canada]

Adanu wrote...

I have no problem with either of these sort of deals, as it makes sense that you need to pay for DLC because of the resources involved.

How is this different from the current DLC? They still use resources they don't intially have, they are taking money out of their pockets and making this DLC.

but I see nothing that shows me that you cannot put this character into the game without pre ordering.

It'll most likely come with all new copies of the game. EA's 15 dollar project and all that.

That being said, please clarify if you mean party member or player character skin/model with this edition.

It's a party member.

[Wulfram]

FitShaced wrote...

But everything he has said has been relevant.

You think it matters whether the restaurant decides to give you a smaller portion before or after they cooked the meal?