136 réponses à ce sujet

[Digideus]

I dont see the point of completing this mission. I didnt want Zaeed on the team and hes not that interesting a character anyway. besides, you dont need his loyalty to successfully complete the Suicide mission. He survived anyway without actively doing anything,

[Gibb_Shepard]

Save the hostages. Zaeed purposefully screwed up the mission for his own selfish revenge, and i wasn't going to let those workers burn.

[smudboy]

Exile Isan wrote...

tommyt_1994 wrote...
But it was Zaeed's mission, and you weren't there to save the workers. The contract may have said so but Zaeed himself tells you that it isn't why you're there.

Yes, you were. That is what Zaeed tells you he was hired to do when you first recruit him. He mentions nothing about getting revenge on Vido when Shepard agreed to help him, only that he was hired by Eldfell-Ashland to liberate the factory from the Blue Suns. And that is why my Shepard saves the factory workers. In a way Zaeed is failing in what he was hired to do when he started that fire, a burnt down factory isn't much good to Eldfell-Ashland now is it?

Zaeed's idea of liberating a refinery from Blue Suns probably involves killing everyone.  Perhaps all of them.  I'd imagine Eldfell-Ashland would know what they were getting into when they hired Zaeed.

Mind you that is a very odd set of circumstances that just so happens to involve Zaeed's target of revenge.

[Snowship]

Regardless Shepard should do what his/her conscience tells him

[Slayer299]

wizardryforever wrote...

I think Shepard's words when you choose to save the workers sums it up quite nicely as far as I'm concerned:  "Screw loyalty, we're here to save those people and that's what we're gonna do."  Maybe I paraphrased that, but it is pretty much exactly how I felt.  The mission description was about liberating the refinery, not burning it down in relentless pursuit of a personal vendetta.  I might possibly be swayed by the "it's Zaeed's mission" argument if he told you upfront that you were there to kill Vido.  But he doesn't, he lies to you and compromises the situation.  Hence the reason why I punch him almost every time.  He's an obsessed, ruthless mercenary, who also happens to be a liar.  That's not someone whose loyalty I value more than the lives of innocent people.

Exactly ^

[Lord_Caledore]

With my main Shep, who I suppose could be described as Renegon, I sacrificed the workers to kill Vido. Big picture and all, as I look at it that I'll save more lives in the long run if a bastard like Vido is burned alive rather then allowed to escape. It was a much less clear-cut choice than Bring Down The Sky though - at times I regret my choice in Zaeed's mission, but I never regretted going after Balak in BDtS.



I'll admit this is one of the few times I may have meta-gamed a bit, though, because I assumed that the game wouldn't let you both save the workers and kill Vido, no matter how fast you saved the workers. I can see it being possible that Shepard might think he can do both, if he moves fast enough...but I figured the game mechanics just wouldn't let you have your cake and eat it too.

[ResidentNoob]

Kill Vido.



I'm not saying that the decision was that easy to make, but eventually I approached it with the same logic that Garrus approaches Dr. Saleon: 'Maybe the hostages die, maybe they don't. But at least we stop the bastard responsible for it all.'



If we do not kill Vido Santiago here and now, he's just going to do this same sh*t again at some other random facility in the middle of nowhere, and Zaeed'll just go after him again; it'll just be a vicious cycle until one of them kills the other. We have to stop him before anyone else suffers needlessly from his actions.



Plus, he's the leader of one of the 3 largest merc groups in the entire galaxy. We kill Vido, the Blue Suns crumble. Or Zaeed eventually takes over. Either way, the snake is no longer a problem if you cut off the head.

[Warhawx]

I stopped the nuke to the resential area, but I know that there are people at the industral areas too. In this case, I made the decision to go after Vido, but my mouse lingered over saving the workers a few times, but I finally made the hard decision by looking more at the long-term effect, which made me look like a council ****, but I couldn't afford another non-loyal person in my crew. (Jack's fault) so I had to have Zaeed at the top of his game, and had to do it. Although, it was an easier decision than stopping one out of two nukes. It's sacrifice a handful of workers for the salvation of the galaxy... For the time being, anyways.

[CheeseEnchilada]

Killing Vido is probably the smarter solution. While someone else could rise up and take his place, for a short while you're causing chaos within the Blue Suns, and eliminating a ruthless mercenary leader. It's difficult to let the workers suffer, but you can save more people long-term.



But my 'main' Shepard didn't do this. It was Zaeed's mission to begin with, and I could have honoured that had he not lost control and set fire to everything. At that point, my Shepard felt that it was time to assume control of the situation, and go against Zaeed's wishes--you're doing good, and asserting dominance over Zaeed at the same time. Vido gets away, yes, but the suicide mission is what's important right now, and having everyone be able to stay in line and follow orders.

[Schneidend]

ResidentNoob wrote...

Kill Vido.

I'm not saying that the decision was that easy to make, but eventually I approached it with the same logic that Garrus approaches Dr. Saleon: 'Maybe the hostages die, maybe they don't. But at least we stop the bastard responsible for it all.'

You mean Zaeed? He's the one who set the place on fire.

If we do not kill Vido Santiago here and now, he's just going to do this same sh*t again at some other random facility in the middle of nowhere, and Zaeed'll just go after him again; it'll just be a vicious cycle until one of them kills the other. We have to stop him before anyone else suffers needlessly from his actions.

Plus, he's the leader of one of the 3 largest merc groups in the entire galaxy. We kill Vido, the Blue Suns crumble. Or Zaeed eventually takes over. Either way, the snake is no longer a problem if you cut off the head.

The Blue Suns would indeed be crippled by the loss of a logistics expert like Vido, but somebody far more violent and ruthless could take over the organization. At least with Vido, there is a modicum of control over the organization. With Vido in charge, he will only invest in what is profitable, so the best way to defeat the Blue Suns is to find their illegal operations and obliterate them until Vido realizes it's too damn expensive to keep breaking the law.

[Reever]

Depends on my Shepard:

1) Paragon/ Idealistic (but not too idealistic xD) Shepard: He saves the workers. Vido can be killed another time, and there´s always another criminal who can take over the operations...

2) "Good" Renegade (as in does what he has to do, dunno if he´s pro or against Cerberus yet...and yeah, being Renegade doesn´t mean you have to let yourself be manipulated by TIM ) : Killing Vido saves a lot of other people. It´s a pity, but the workers are a sacrifice he is willing to pay. (he isn´t such a coward to think "this is not my mission" - you always have a choice!)

3) I´ve yet to play other Shepards, but it´s always going to have to do with his principles/morals/ duty etc. (well, I think that is pretty much standard, anyway xDD)

[wizardryforever]

Schneidend wrote...

The Blue Suns would indeed be crippled by the loss of a logistics expert like Vido, but somebody far more violent and ruthless could take over the organization. At least with Vido, there is a modicum of control over the organization. With Vido in charge, he will only invest in what is profitable, so the best way to defeat the Blue Suns is to find their illegal operations and obliterate them until Vido realizes it's too damn expensive to keep breaking the law.

Yep, it's not only possible, but likely that Vido's successor will be even more ruthless than he was.  Besides, it's not like Vido gets away scot-free if you save the workers.  His pilot gets killed in mid-flight, possibly causing the gunship to crash and strand Vido on Zorya if it doesn't outright kill him.

I don't see why everyone wants the assault rifle upgrade so badly.  I like the heavy weapon upgrade because it lets you unlock the Cain before Horizon, which drastically reduces the difficulty of the Scion or Praetorian fights.

[DPSSOC]

Exile Isan wrote...

tommyt_1994 wrote...
But it was Zaeed's mission, and you weren't there to save the workers. The contract may have said so but Zaeed himself tells you that it isn't why you're there.

Yes, you were. That is what Zaeed tells you he was hired to do when you first recruit him. He mentions nothing about getting revenge on Vido when Shepard agreed to help him, only that he was hired by Eldfell-Ashland to liberate the factory from the Blue Suns. And that is why my Shepard saves the factory workers. In a way Zaeed is failing in what he was hired to do when he started that fire, a burnt down factory isn't much good to Eldfell-Ashland now is it?

Ok I want you to look very carefully at the wording of that statement.  "Liberate the factory" does not mean "save the workers" it means regain control of the physical structure (factory) from the Blue Suns.  It's probably better for the company in question that their workers survive (don't have to hire and train new monkies), but it is not a primary mission directive.  By killing Vido you ensure that the entire Blue Suns presence is eliminated from the base thus ensuring the completion of the mission (Factory Liberated, Workers Dead).

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Save the hostages. Zaeed purposefully screwed up the mission for his own selfish revenge, and i wasn't going to let those workers burn.

No he did not.  Zaeed completed the mission successfully, perhaps without tact or finesse, but successfully.  The factory was liberated and the company can start up operations again, job well done bank your credits and go home.  You don't use a broadsword for open heart surgery and you don't hire Zaeed Everyone Dies But Me  Massani to conduct a surgical strike with minimal collateral damage.

[Xilizhra]

Screw Zaeed, save the workers. Maybe killing Vido will throw the Blue Suns into chaos. Maybe someone nicer than he will will take over, maybe someone nastier will. That outcome is totally unknowable; here and now, there are endangered people. I will save them.

[wizardryforever]

DPSSOC wrote...

"Liberate the factory" does not mean "save the workers" it means regain control of the physical structure (factory) from the Blue Suns.  It's probably better for the company in question that their workers survive (don't have to hire and train new monkies), but it is not a primary mission directive.  By killing Vido you ensure that the entire Blue Suns presence is eliminated from the base thus ensuring the completion of the mission (Factory Liberated, Workers Dead).

Also note that "liberate the refinery" does not mean "burn the refinery down," which is what happens if you let the workers die.  Vido is killed, but the original mission plan is completely botched.  I'm sure Eldfell-Ashland will be pleased to know that you not only started a fire that burned the refinery down, you also let all of the workers inside die.  The primary objective is to liberate the refinery, killing Vido is secondary.

[DPSSOC]

wizardryforever wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
"Liberate the factory" does not mean "save the workers" it means regain control of the physical structure (factory) from the Blue Suns.  It's probably better for the company in question that their workers survive (don't have to hire and train new monkies), but it is not a primary mission directive.  By killing Vido you ensure that the entire Blue Suns presence is eliminated from the base thus ensuring the completion of the mission (Factory Liberated, Workers Dead).

Also note that "liberate the refinery" does not mean "burn the refinery down," which is what happens if you let the workers die.

Does it actually burn down?  Like completely?  I mean it's a logical assumption based on the evidence but are we ever told if the fire destroys the entire facility?

wizardryforever wrote...
Vido is killed, but the original mission plan is completely botched.

But nay the factory is liberated, it's a smouldering ruin of no real use to anyone but it is a liberated smouldering ruin of no real use to anyone.

wizardryforever wrote...
I'm sure Eldfell-Ashland will be pleased to know that you not only started a fire that burned the refinery down, you also let all of the workers inside die.

I repeat if Eldfell-Ashland wanted this mission carried out with finesse, precision, and minimal collateral damage they should not have hired Zaeed Massani.  Just look at the man and you can tell he's not one for the subtle approach.

wizardryforever wrote...
The primary objective is to liberate the refinery, killing Vido is secondary.

And by sacrificing the workers you achieve both, best solution for whole galaxy

[cachx]

I kill Vido, everytime. Even when playing Paragon.

No need to worry about passing the paragon check or losing loyalty, and the cutscene is really cool.

Sure, the screams of the dying workers are a bit distressing, but i'll get over it.

[Zaxares]

I always save the workers. I might be wrong, but I think if you choose the Renegade path, TIM's debriefing says that the facility was lost with all hands, suggesting that the whole thing either burned to the ground or suffered such extensive damage that repairing it proved unfeasible. The original mission was to liberate the facility, not destroy it. Zaeed's only there for his own selfish ends. I can sympathise with the man, and I would want revenge if I was in his position too, but I still can't leave the workers to burn. : /



Not to mention that this is another stupid case of, "Dammit, Joker! Why didn't you shoot down the freaking ship the terrorist is in?!" It happened in ME1 with Balak, and it happened again now!

[Praetor Knight]

My interpretation is that Zaeed has been tracking Vido for the past 20 years!

And as he has taken contracts as a merc he is always looking for leads on Vido, which can also explain why he's been so selective and expensive (so with possible Cerberus Intel as icing on the cake, Zaeed agrees to join a suicide mission)

he even comments on how its suicidal to cross the bridge to get to Garrus on the Garrus RM, if you take him with you, (so he is always looking out for himself as a Merc),

and so Zaeed had subsequently found Vido at the refinery,

once there plantside, he blows a gasket when he sees Vido and does not want to keep tracking him down, blindly damaging the refinery and making it start to blow up,

So I have thought that liberating the refinery is only the pretense to get Shepard to agree to land there and then forces Shep to make a choice...

From there you can then choose to save some of the people Zaeed is willing to sacrifice to complete "the mission" or complete the vendetta to gain his loyalty.

I've always compared Vido to Balak in his intentions and how he has run the Blue Suns, so I've mostly gone the renegade route even as a paragon.

Edit: Plus the assault rifle DMG upgrade is more useful for my class since I barely use heavy weapons or go with the Cain.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 16 octobre 2010 - 02:55 .

[AdamNW]

I saved the hostages.  Zaeed also died.

Modifié par AdamNW, 16 octobre 2010 - 03:06 .

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

I wish I could have just walked away from the whole situation...

The whole time I was on that damn planet I was thinking "How did I get myself into a !#%@ situation like this?"

Modifié par Yojimbo_Ltd, 16 octobre 2010 - 03:52 .

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

I wish I could have just walked away from the whole situation...

The whole time I was on that damn planet I was thinking "How did I get myself into a !#%@ situation like this?"

"you know what zaeed, turns out i don't have to do this at all... go ahead and suit yourself... i'm outtie. nice knowing ya. i'll go recruit some merc from the citadel instead.", commander shepard

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 16 octobre 2010 - 03:56 .

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

I wish I could have just walked away from the whole situation...

The whole time I was on that damn planet I was thinking "How did I get myself into a !#%@ situation like this?"

"you know what zaeed, turns out i don't have to do this at all... go ahead and suit yourself... i'm outtie. nice knowing ya. i'll go recruit some merc from the citadel instead.", commander shepard

I was thinking more along the lines of "Man There are way too many explosions on this loyalty mission..."

[Inside_Joke]

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

I wish I could have just walked away from the whole situation...

The whole time I was on that damn planet I was thinking "How did I get myself into a !#%@ situation like this?"

"you know what zaeed, turns out i don't have to do this at all... go ahead and suit yourself... i'm outtie. nice knowing ya. i'll go recruit some merc from the citadel instead.", commander shepard

I was thinking more along the lines of "Man There are way too many explosions on this loyalty mission..."

I was expecting a big, flaming sign that said, "Michael Bay was here".

Ahem.

**Ah, yes, and I saved the hostages, and Zaeed.
Someone needs to tell me lovely bed time stories.

Modifié par Inside_Joke, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:14 .