10 réponses à ce sujet

[bjdbwea]

Dear BioWare and EA,

after the disappointment with ME 2, I will not pre-order any of your games again in the foreseeable future (but I usually don't pre-order games anyway these days). LotSB was amazing, but it doesn't have restored my faith in your company yet. Especially not in DA 2 obviously, which seems to contain a lot of important changes that I don't like (and the DA DLCs were also far from being as good as LotSB). So I will have to wait and read some credible reviews of your games, most importantly reviews from people who paid for the game, not from people who were paid to play it. Of course I would still be willing to buy the game shortly after release, if your promises turn out to be true.

But do you want to know what announcements like this "signature edition" do? No, they do not increase the chance of me pre-ordering the game. Instead, this even decreases the chance of me buying the game when it's released. Because I will not accept to get some content - content that was ready and finished on release day, and content that's not just an armor or weapon, but actual gameplay content - cut out of my game, just because I maintain my right to wait and see before I buy a product. So even if the game is really good, I might just wait until the price has dropped enough to outweigh the costs to buy this cut content as a DLC. Or I might just wait for the inevitable "ultimate" edition (or however it'll be called) that finally contains the full game.

And by the way, I am curious about this whole strategy anyway. Surely, if the game is great, there is no need to give away so much content just for pre-ordering it. Surely people would immediately buy the game anyway. So why do you feel the need for such a strong incentive in the first place? This, also, does not make me more confident in the product I am supposed to pre-order.

I hope you don't feel the need to close this thread, because I think this issue goes beyond a particular game. The main question is, how much are the customers willing to accept until they say "enough"? I don't mind the armors and weapons as a bonus. Especially not if mods can easily add tons of that stuff to the game anyway. I also don't mind DLCs that are developed and sold after release. But cutting a whole companion out of the game, and then only giving that "for free" to people who agree to buy the cat in the bag, that goes too far. What's next, I wonder.

Sincerely,

An unimportant customer

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 octobre 2010 - 01:50 .

[David Gaider]

Nerevar-as wrote...
I see it more as having content from the game cut if I don´t preorder before a certain date.

I find that a bit strange, from our perspective. We make a complete game-- from concept on up-- and then at some point we start considering what extra content we want to make available for DLC. The timing of it is irrelevant simply because it's extra-- if it wasn't for DLC, it wouldn't exist at all. It seems that some people seem to think that because the extra content exists, they are somehow entitled to it.

My response would be to wait and see if the base game is enough to justify its cost-- but I guess to some people it can never be enough, and nothing is ever "extra" if they want it. Well, fair enough.

Not getting it anyway, DAO left clear that waiting for GotY is the wise thing to do. There´s nothing in SE as there was in DAO CE to make up for purchasing the game in March.

If you're not interested in playing the game immediately, that's fair. The price of games always goes down eventually. It's sort of everyone's choice to decide what a game is worth to them, isn't it?

At any rate, for those people who were already planning on ordering ahead of time, this is a nice bonus. If you're not sure it's worth it to you, then you shouldn't get it-- but then you don't get to complain later on that you should receive the benefits anyhow, I think.

[David Gaider]

Kilshrek wrote...
Not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but tone is notoriously difficult to convey across the internet. Whatever happened to good old expansion packs?

I don't know. I'm not the person who decides whether there's DLC or expansion packs or what have you, but my impression is that the only reason expansion packs existed to begin with was because they needed to go on the retail shelf. You had to put out something substantial enough that it could go on its own CD and sell as a separate entity.

Had digital delivery always been around, would expansion packs have ever been created? Again, I don't know. And I don't think we're ruling anything out at this point. One thing does not necessarily mean another is exluded, but this signature edition here is all we've announced.

[David Gaider]

bjdbwea wrote...
So since Mr. Gaider did not respond to the actual issue, I guess that's at least confirmation that indeed the additional companion will not be included in any game pre-ordered or bought after January 11th, 2011.

I have no idea what the plan is, so I'm not going to comment on it. You're free to assume whatever you like.

I just find it strange that if we decide to sell extra content, whether it was planned/created before, during or after the development of the main game that you're somehow entitled to that for the same price. But I guess this just goes back to the whole DLC reactionary thing-- everyone has their own subjective means of assigning value to something, so it's best not to wade into the middle of it.

Cheers!

Modifié par David Gaider, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:24 .

[David Gaider]

Zlarm wrote...
10 years ago when dlc wasn't around that cool extra character idea might have been included into the game rather than set as a pre order bonus or as paid dlc...

Incorrect. It wouldn't have been included at all. DLC is created on a different timeline and is separate from the main game in both concept and execution-- the idea that we could or would simply fold these resources into the main game and make it bigger, no strings attached, is a fantasy. The main game is a herculean enough effort to create as it is.

That doesn't stop people (or "consumers", if you prefer) from wanting more for nothing. That's always been the case, I'm pretty certain. Digital delivery simply hasn't been an option before.

Plus I'm not sure you're the most unbiased source of information considering we are on different sides of the consumer/ supplier divide (I don't mean this as an insult).

I'm sure there are people who think I'm just a corporate shill, sure, and wouldn't believe me no matter what I say. Not much I can do about that. I'm not a salesman, and I'm not trying to be one.

Ultimately whether DA2 justifies its cost is a little hard to decide at the moment since the only things you guys seem focused on right now is "think like a general and fight like a spartan".  Hopefully by January we'll have a bit of a better idea.

I somehow suspect that will be the case, yes.

[David Gaider]

bjdbwea wrote...
While that might be a strategy, the customers should not be forced to take such steps. Besides, what if someone prefers to read reviews from actual gamers who paid for the game, instead of reviewers who get paid to play the game?

Who's "forcing" you? Wait for reviews. It's a sound, wise choice if you're at all doubtful.

If you're not, then pre-order the game. And if you do, you'll receive a bonus as a "thank you".

As for how people can get access to that bonus (or if they can) when they don't pre-order, you'll have to wait and see. I don't know when we're putting out that information.

But I guess there will be people who will want the best of both worlds, regardless, and will rail against the very idea of DLC no matter what we say-- because we are, heaven forbid, putting out content that other people are willing to pay for. And them paying for it means you don't get it for free (or don't get it at all, which would normally have been the case in the past, though you wouldn't have known it was ever considered either and ignorance is usally bliss).

Even so, I don't know what the value is in me participating in this discussion. I'm sure we've provided all the info we can on the subject right now. Feel free to discuss it-- please keep it civil and related to DA2 specifically. Thanks.

Modifié par David Gaider, 15 octobre 2010 - 05:19 .

[Stanley Woo]

An off-topic conversation removed.

[Stanley Woo]

crimzontearz wrote...
The problem shnoz is that content that should have just been free for everyone

Your opinion, your preference, your desire, but it has no bearing on reality or what we're doing/planning, regardless of how often you say it, how many people say, or how loudly. Even if a jillion people cpeak out against it, but enough people buy it that it makes sense to keep doing it, we'll keep doing it. Remember all the people who are not you who may disagree with you.

turned into paid dlc (even tho only for some and as warden's keep...well....it is none of our business according to the devs so we will never know)

Really, your choice as a gamer and consumer is to choose to buy it, or choose not to buy it. the "reasons" or "story" behind a product are really not your concern and have no bearing on the product being offered for sale. Whether something "turns into paid DLC" or "was DLC from the beginning" is immaterial to the finished product, as it spawns a lot of pointless arguments by gamers on what the developer "should have" or "could have" done. It still has no effect on your right and responsibility as a consumer to make informed purchasing decisions.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 19 octobre 2010 - 07:53 .

[Stanley Woo]

aaniadyen wrote...
I seriously think it would save Bioware a lot of headaches on this forum if they just kept everyone completely in the dark like every other developer. (not sarcasm)

But then everyone keeps pressing us to give them more information, more, More, MORE and we're accused of not interacting with the fans!

[Stanley Woo]

Tiax Rules All wrote...
What is the difference between a "the dlc chracter team" and say the "Varric team" 

They both work for the same company if the "dlc team" makes a character that is done way before game is complete then the only difference is the fact that they dont take the last step to incorporate it into the game. Instead leaving it out and coming up with some marketing for it (even if it is "freeish" now)

Thats what bugs me. Who cares who developed it. People who don't pre-order cant play it because of the label given to the team who developed it? Bioware pays both them all a they are all working on the same game.

The issue comes when incorporating everything into the main game. the main game has to all work together by a certain time so that everything can be locked down, tested nine ways from Sunday and upside down, then certified to meet specific technical requirements, before finally being approved and sent to manufacturing.

Though DLC might be worked on at the same time as the main game, it is usually at a different stage of development than the main game. That is, it is usually not complete, not voiced, not polished, or not fully tested by the time the main game has to be locked down. in the time between lockdown and manufacturing, any Day 1 DLC can be finished up and polished and tested, hopefully in time to really be accurately called "Day 1 DLC."

It doesn't always work out the way we want it to, but no one's perfect. That's why DLC is what it is and not just "completed content that's cut from the game and resold as DLC." And seriously, as Dave Gaider says, the option is usually "DLC or cut it" rather than "DLC or main game or cut it." The more you know...

[Stanley Woo]

Rogue Unit wrote...

This thread is pointless now. All arguments on why the DLC should be free have been defeated. This is just pointless rambling now.

Sure, but you could say that about any internet forum. Pointless rambling it might be, but the subject keeps coming up so it's better to have a thread where it can be discussed. Granted, it always comes down to "we built the darn thing, so we know what we're talking about," but that doesn't always satisfy everyone.