967 réponses à ce sujet

[Cigne]

Veex wrote...

Cigne wrote...

I've been skimming but this thread is moving too fast for me--apologies if it's been mentioned already, but is it confirmed that the extra npc will be playable at launch, or do we just get a code for the dlc when it's ready?

That was a typo in the release. The extra character is a companion, not another playable character.

I understand that; I'm just considering whether the added npc is a (seperate dlc) work in progress, and if that companion and the associated quests might not be ready at launch.

I'm going to pre-order anyway--Bioware will have to let me down with a game before my policy changes;) but I'm thinking that whether the companion is garaunteed ready first day dlc goes toward the question of choosing to not pre-order means not getting the complete game.

[Squeeze the Fish]

I don't know if this has already been suggested but...

Possible Solution: Pre-order the game. When you get it, don't open it. Wait for your "legitimate" reviews to decide if you really want to play it. If not, send it back and get your money back.

However, I don't really know how pre-orders work and if you'll be able to pay for it, say in January, and still return it when it comes out some months later. You could check though.

And please, don't anyone bite my head off, I'm really just trying to be helpful.

EDIT: Yes, it seems this has already been suggested. My apologies.

Modifié par Squeeze the Fish, 15 octobre 2010 - 10:41 .

[Johnny Shepard]

Marionetten wrote...

Lady light doorbell wrote...

What makes this different? Nothing.

It is only different in being even more shameless. Sometimes I wonder how much gamers will tolerate.

So your telling med that it would have been bether if they just didnt release Shale at all?

Is it really bether if they dont release content that they have to cut at all, rather then if they release it as DLC later? Even as free DLC?
Im sorry but that just doesnt make any sence.

[orpheus333]

bjdbwea wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Let me put my inane opinion here: It is a generalization of course and bound to many fallacies as such.

More pre-orders mean a lot to a company. Why?

1) Profit: Value of games depreciates over time
2) Prestige: People trust us so much that they bought our game before trying it out.
3) Sale assurance: You have bought it. Period. Some of you may not have bought it after reading/seeing user reviews/ Metacritic scores / Actual gameplay footage etc.

under these circumstance would you NOT encourage people to buy it before being released? Whether you buy the argument or freebies or not, it only matters if you Bought the game or not. - Troika (Vampire) ; not sic.

The sad thing about this quote is that for Troika buying Vampire ment a whole lot. They folded shortly after Bloodlines's release. I shame considering that despite its faults its a great RPG.

Modifié par andyr1986, 15 octobre 2010 - 10:56 .

[Sevens]

My bad.

Modifié par Sevens, 15 octobre 2010 - 11:05 .

[Zanaide]

bjdbwea wrote...

The principle remains in any case. Consider this: These are all small steps, but in a certain direction. What if next time the character cut out of the game is a potential LI? Does it still not matter? What if you can only get the best ending to the game if you pre-order it? You think that can't happen? We thought that about numerous things that this industry came up with in the last few years. This trend will only continue if the customers just accept each of these steps.

I'm honestly wondering what it is about pre-ordering that has you so up in arms? I mean.. It's a pre-order. All I did was give the little online form a credit card number and they sent me an e-mail. I haven't even really paid for the game yet. All I've done is said that I will pay for the game when it is actually released. If at any time in the next oh.. 5 months I want to cancel this order, all I do is go to a different little form on the interwebs and cancel it.

So.. What exactly is the problem here? You don't like pre-ordering because.. I honestly can't think of an answer other than you might not like the game. If you haven't figured out whether or not you're going to play it by the time the release does actually roll around, you're probaby not going to buy it either way.

I dunno.. Everyone seems to have their minds rather made up about the entire game and it's still 5 months out. Heck, it's still 3 months until January. Granted, I've pre-ordered the game, but I knew when DA2 was officially announced that I would likely end up playing it since I love DA:O. I'm just not as picky about some things when I find a franchise that I like unless the company guts the game and throws it into a new genre.

And don't spout about the principles of this or that.. I'm still utterly confounded when people are surprised that a company wants to turn a profit. If you no longer wish to support the actions taken by the company in their profit-making endeavors, by all means don't buy their products. This current direction so far doesn't bother me in the slightest as I had already pre-ordered my game. When and if the situation becomes more dire than "Oh noes! I won't be able to play this certain character who probably has no significant bearing on the outcome of the game if I don't pre-order the game RIGHT NOW!", then I too will stop buying the products as is my right as a consumer.

[Stanley Woo]

An off-topic conversation removed.

[Kileyan]

First of all, I am not complaining about this pre-order thing.

I just have a question, and I am sure I am missing something very simple, but I do not play consoles.

Why are companies(not just bioware), creating all these day one DLC's and other strings attached things to ensure console players purchase new games?

Why don't they just use activation codes like PC's? I can't rent pc games or reliably purchase used games, because I need a code to install them. If a company doesn't want the used game industry, or lose money to rentals. Why don't they just treat console games like pc games, each install takes an activation code, and it can only be used once.

It is wanting the best of both worlds. THey don't want to lose the sales of their games to the game rental outlets, but at the same time they don't want people renting the games? Or something else, consoles can't support install codes, dunno, always been confused about this rent, used game purchase thing, and the hoops dev's jump through to discourage it, in light of existing ways of doing it that work for pcs, and would work even better for console that don't support modding or pirating execs.

[Tiax Rules All]

Lord_Valandil wrote...



Hmmm...

I find quite amusing that people are complaining about upgrading to the Signature Edition without extra cost.



Did I miss something?

Yes its at no cost except that you have to pre-order it. I dont like the fact that it is making us do that for content that should be included in the game. If its done at this point it should be included in regular game.



Am I NOT a loyal fan if I buy it on release day instead of 5 months in advance?



I mean shale was fine being an insert for retail game owners but now I have to buy DA2 months in advance to get the full game?



I mentioned the DLC stuff being a slippery slope back in the DAO pre-release days and look. Its a smaller step but it is in the wrong direction for gamers.



It WILL get worse I promise

[bjdbwea]

Zanaide wrote...

What exactly is the problem here?

Okay, once more:

The problem is that actual gameplay content - a companion and missions, not just some items - was cut from the game, and for all we know, this content will only be available "for free" to those who pre-order the game, even though everyone who buys the game pays for the whole production costs. This in effect punishes everyone who wants to maintain their right to read reviews before purchasing a game. Yes, you could pre-order the game now and cancel the order if the game gets negative reviews. But why should I be bothered to do that? Am I supposed to do that with any game that might interest me now, just so that I won't miss any content? Besides, the game will be shipped early enough so that you have it on release day, so it's impossible to read any reviews from actual gamers before that.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 octobre 2010 - 11:24 .

[thegreateski]

OP has a point. Anyone who wants to read a review before buying the game is fuxored.



That reminds me. I'm going to go read the Fallout:NV reviews.

[Sevens]

"The BioWare Signature Edition of Dragon Age II is a chance for us to reward loyal fans who pre-order the game by providing them with additional high-quality content for free.” - Dr. Ray Muzyka.



Hehe. What nonsense. More like content that would've been there anyway is still there for the "loyal" fans. "Illoyal" fans apparently have to pay USD 20,- now. Gee, Project 10 Dollar quickly became Project 20 Dollar (plus you not only have to buy new, but you have to pre-order). Well, unless there's now "Project Signature Edition" and Project 10 Dollar. Which would pretty much amount to Project Group 30 Dollar.



Bravo, Bioware. Bravo, EA. Excellent press release, too: "gee, it's free content". Really looking forward to Project 40 Dollars, which probably is soon to follow.

[orpheus333]

This is going on the assumption that the DLC included with the Signature Edition has any specific relevance to the main DA2 story arcs or characters and isn't something as simple as a Warden's Keep or Zaeed. There is a massive difference between releasing a game with sections removed purely to leech money from consumers and release a complete product, with extras for those that want to pay extra, or in this case commit to pay 5 months in advance. You as a consumer have every right to forgo a pre-order if you aren't convinced by the product as advertised. Also you still have your consumer rights in place if you feel what you do buy falls short of a complete product.

[Saibh]

bjdbwea wrote...

Zanaide wrote...

What exactly is the problem here?

Okay, once more:

The problem is that actual gameplay content - a companion and missions, not just some items - was cut from the game, and for all we know, this content will only be available "for free" to those who pre-order the game, even though everyone who buys the game pays for the whole production costs.

This is not true. I don't know if you've read the dev comments--David Gaider's particularly--but he explained several times to us that DLC content is not content that was originally in the game and was extracted later. The main game and DLC are developed seperately--if there was no DLC, there'd be no Shale or Zaeed or Kasumi. They wouldn't have ever been a part of the game.

They decide what they will make for DLC content early so it can be easily integrated into the game.

This new companion and the new missions are not content cut from the game to screw you over. It is different content made solely to be sold seperately. And I am positive it will come in DLC form. It'd be a gigantic waste of money on their part to develop a free portion of the game that is only available through preordering before a deadline.

The difference is, you pre-order now, you get it for free (and some limited content, as I imagine the weapons are). You pre-order later, don't like what the reviews have to say? Then you cancel your pre-order and lose five bucks, or move the five to some other preorder. You have until January. You don't need to preorder now. You don't need to preorder later.

But this is an extra incentive for people who wouldn't normally preorder, and an incredible reward for people who do (or did) anyway and are now getting stuff for free.

[Lurklen]

bjdbwea wrote...

Zanaide wrote...

What exactly is the problem here?

Okay, once more:

The problem is that actual gameplay content - a companion and missions, not just some items - was cut from the game, and for all we know, this content will only be available "for free" to those who pre-order the game, even though everyone who buys the game pays for the whole production costs. This in effect punishes everyone who wants to maintain their right to read reviews before purchasing a game. Yes, you could pre-order the game now and cancel the order if the game gets negative reviews. But why should I be bothered to do that? Am I supposed to do that with any game that might interest me now, just so that I won't miss any content? Besides, the game will be shipped early enough so that you have it on release day, so it's impossible to read any reviews from actual gamers before that.

 Actually I'm thinking it wasn't cut from anything since as far as I know the game is still in development, which means what they're doing is making DLC products parallel to the main game. Much like when you pre-order anything we're paying for content that doesn't really exist yet. All that aside by not pre-ordering you are not missing out on content, you are simply not getting that content for free. Remember there is no price difference between the basic game and the signature edition.

That makes this a sales incentive; Bioware is trying to get more pre-orders by giveing loyal customers a bonus for pre-ordering. Which is a way of showing trust in the quality of a brand, as like I said earlier when ever you pre-order you are paying for content that does not yet exist. In a sense you are always getting ripped off until the game is finished, so you are trusting the company to make a product that is worth the money you already paid them. If you don't want to do that then wait untill the game comes out, I have no doubt the content will be for sale later. However if you trust Bioware to make a game worth your money, then pre-order it's not going to cost you extra anyway.

[Sevens]

You as a consumer have every right to forgo a pre-order if you aren't convinced by the product as advertised. Also you still have your consumer rights in place if you feel what you do buy falls short of a complete product.

Oh, I'm not saying what they're doing is illegal. That being said, the "complete product" in legal terms is the absolute minimum and, in such a competitive market, not a realistic point of comparison.

As for the rest of your post, I generally agree with your reasoning (in its abstract elements), but I do come to a different result. 

[bjdbwea]

scyphozoa wrote...

The parameters of the SE are clear. As a consumer you can choose to participate within the established parameters or you can choose not to. Complaining about the established parameters on forums is just you venting, which will not accomplish anything more than ventilation.

Wrong. A forum is not only there for the "thank you" and "could you please cut more content from the game and sell it to me later" threads. It also gives me a way to tell the developers and their publishers why I might not buy their game. And if enough others agree, then it might change something after all. Unfortunately, many people apparently don't mind. Or so it seems, we will of course see about that when the game is actually released and some sales numbers are known.

[Apollo Starflare]

As others have said, by all means have a problem with the sig edition if you must, but the content isn't cut. John Elper has also been on here to explain that thesedays sometimes extra content is developed almost alongside the main product by a different team (for the most part) due to production schedules and other reasons. We have no reason to believe the companion was cut from the product 'Dragon Age 2', although I would guess a fair few people will choose not to take a Bioware employee's word on the matter.

[elearon1]

But you know what? It worked. I will be preordering the game because I won't want to wait until the extra character is released for shelf buyers. (I'm guessing it will be a free or very cheep dlc a month or less after release)



I do find it unfortunate that, among the retailers listed for preorder, Direct2Drive is not one of them. I buy all my games on D2D anymore, as it is so much more convenient and safer than disks. (can't count the number of times a scratched or lost disk forced me to repurchase a game)

[Zanaide]

bjdbwea wrote...

Zanaide wrote...

What exactly is the problem here?

Okay, once more:

The problem is that actual gameplay content - a companion and missions, not just some items - was cut from the game, and for all we know, this content will only be available "for free" to those who pre-order the game, even though everyone who buys the game pays for the whole production costs. This in effect punishes everyone who wants to maintain their right to read reviews before purchasing a game. Yes, you could pre-order the game now and cancel the order if the game gets negative reviews. But why should I be bothered to do that? Am I supposed to do that with any game that might interest me now, just so that I won't miss any content? Besides, the game will be shipped early enough so that you have it on release day, so it's impossible to read any reviews from actual gamers before that.

This argument is superfluous. For one, it takes about 30 seconds to place an order and another 30 to cancel it. For another, you don't know if the content will only be available to people who pre-order nor is it fair to say that the content was purposefully cut from the contents of the game when several BIOWare employees have said on these forums that this company does not work like that. Isn't it even possible to give them some benefit of the doubt? Yes, by all appearances, this content is being worked on concurrently with the game itself, however, the game product will have to be certified, produced, packaged, shipped, distributed. This companion does not. It's content to be downloaded which means.. They can work on it right up to the day the game is on the shelves. For all we know, this DLC could be in it's infancy. All they've done is announce that it will be attached to this SE. We don't even know who/what/where. There's not even a picture of the companion.

And of course you pay for the production costs.. Do you think it's cheap to create these massive works? Don't you think you'd want to get paid for sitting in front of a computer animating pixels into life for 60+ hours a week? Do you think distributing is free? Downloaded versions or physical copies? Over 3 formats? Honestly, the production costs alone must be staggering in this day and age.

Maybe I'm just talking to myself again. I'm not going to change anyone's mind and they're not going to change mine. I've ordered my copy and I have no qualms about it. If I didn't think I'd like the game, I would just cancel my order and be done with it. I wouldn't sit and stress over something I wasn't going to get if I decided at a later time to pick up a copy and they hadn't released the content later. In the grand scheme of things, it's not going to effect my life because it's still just a game, a past-time.

[Slayster]

I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, but I think I'll be waiting for the time being. Generally these days if I'm going to buy a disk copy rather than a Steam copy it needs to have physical bonuses like models, maps & books. So I'll wait to see if there'll be a 'collectors edition' or see what the pre-order situation is on Steam.

[bjdbwea]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

As others have said, by all means have a problem with the sig edition if you must, but the content isn't cut. John Elper has also been on here to explain that thesedays sometimes extra content is developed almost alongside the main product by a different team (for the most part) due to production schedules and other reasons. We have no reason to believe the companion was cut from the product 'Dragon Age 2', although I would guess a fair few people will choose not to take a Bioware employee's word on the matter.

Indeed, I do not take everything that they say at face value. In any case, additional content creates additional costs, especially for the voice recordings. So who pays for that? It's paid for by everyone who buys the game. But you only get the content "for free" if you pre-order the game.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 16 octobre 2010 - 12:08 .