967 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Of course, saying "it's part of the game" isn't actually supposed to mean the game isn't playable without it. I'm not quite sure what that is supposed to mean. It may be a pure rhetorical move with zero real meaning.

[Ebontine]

Addai67 wrote...

Ebontine wrote...

Will you ****ers stop posting complaints already before the game is even released?

If the forums make you as cranky as you sound...

If you're excited about the game, good for you.  You're not alone.  Why you think the forums need to be one big pep rally, I dunno.  Fandom isn't conformity, especially when they've given us plenty of reason to be skeptical by making some big departures on the franchise over Origins.

Asking questions is fine, cool even. Complaining is not. It doesn't get you anywhere other than developers thinking: "Sigh... here we go again.."

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Ebontine wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ebontine wrote...

Will you ****ers stop posting complaints already before the game is even released?

If the forums make you as cranky as you sound...

If you're excited about the game, good for you.  You're not alone.  Why you think the forums need to be one big pep rally, I dunno.  Fandom isn't conformity, especially when they've given us plenty of reason to be skeptical by making some big departures on the franchise over Origins.

Asking questions is fine, cool even. Complaining is not. It doesn't get you anywhere other than developers thinking: "Sigh... here we go again.."

But that's wrong... When people complain, a good company listens and hears there complaints, then they fix the game to amend the problems. We'll see whether Bioware does that in the quality of the game. If it IS Dragon May Cry like it looks like in all the videos I watch, hopefully it'll sell terrible and they'll realize the error of their ways. 


If it isn't, and it's as true as they claim it to be, then hopefully it will do well. See it's people like you that screw up the consumer-company relationship. You don't voice your complaints so they aren't heard, so instead it's left to the vocal minority to speak for the majority, which doesn't always work well.

American consumers have lost their power, all because people have become complacent with things "The way they are".

[Urazz]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Ebontine wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ebontine wrote...

Will you ****ers stop posting complaints already before the game is even released?

If the forums make you as cranky as you sound...

If you're excited about the game, good for you.  You're not alone.  Why you think the forums need to be one big pep rally, I dunno.  Fandom isn't conformity, especially when they've given us plenty of reason to be skeptical by making some big departures on the franchise over Origins.

Asking questions is fine, cool even. Complaining is not. It doesn't get you anywhere other than developers thinking: "Sigh... here we go again.."

But that's wrong... When people complain, a good company listens and hears there complaints, then they fix the game to amend the problems. We'll see whether Bioware does that in the quality of the game. If it IS Dragon May Cry like it looks like in all the videos I watch, hopefully it'll sell terrible and they'll realize the error of their ways. 


If it isn't, and it's as true as they claim it to be, then hopefully it will do well. See it's people like you that screw up the consumer-company relationship. You don't voice your complaints so they aren't heard, so instead it's left to the vocal minority to speak for the majority, which doesn't always work well.

American consumers have lost their power, all because people have become complacent with things "The way they are".

I work in retail so let me tell you something, the American consumer hasn't lost their power when it comes to common sense requests.  It's just that most American consumers tend to be too rude, greedy, and/or demanding.

Hell, here in Bioware's own forums, alot of the complaints are unwarranted so far and only done by the vocal minority.  Bioware is not going to listen to alot of these complaints right now when they haven't even released everything to us.  Right now they'll just be seeing any complaints as minor concerns.

And after the game releases or when we, the customer gets more information? Yeah, they'll take the more constructive complaints more seriously but if the game sells real well, they may not decide to change too much based on these complaints.

Finally, all the whiners need to get it into their thick heads, asides from the extra companion/quests (who will probably be included in all versions of the game you buy to encourage people buying a new game instead of a used copy), most of the other content in the extra stuff in the signature/collector's edition is stuff that won't really effect gameplay all that much asides from the weapons a little bit and if it's anything like the most of the DLC weapons in DA:O, you'll have to level up enough to use it first and at that point it isn't all that overpowered.

Modifié par Urazz, 16 octobre 2010 - 11:25 .

[Nerevar-as]

I feel curious as to how the extra NPC was written out (I am actually asking, no second meanings here). I just can´t see a high up went to Gaider and co and asked for another party member for DLC. So how was it? Was s/he not going to make the cut before DLC?

To someone from a few hours ago. Waiting for GotY is patience, not defiance. I´m not expecting any change to the preorder policy for DA2 for not buying. I just don´t buy games blind, or pay for an edition when in the near future I´ll get the same and more for roughly the same amount.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 16 octobre 2010 - 11:50 .

[Sevens]

Blastback wrote...

Well, I think most of us realize how the world works, but we reserve the right to complain about it. I know that a company exist to make money, that profit is the goal, that it has to be if the company is to survive. Does that mean I have to like it?

Nah, that expert in economics was simply saying that he knows something - well believes/claims it anyway - and that companies maximizing profits is something consumers should be very happy about. Every person over the age of 25 (and that's very generous... in whatever way) should think that basic economic principles (such as consumers wanting more for a defined amount of money) and negotiations (in the broadest sense) are utterly pointless. Great to have such uh... "experts" around.


P.S.:

"Finally, all the whiners need to get it into their thick heads, asides from the extra companion/quests (who will probably be included in all versions of the game you buy to encourage people buying a new game instead of a used copy), most of the other content in the extra stuff in the signature/collector's edition is stuff that won't really effect gameplay all that much asides from the weapons a little bit and if it's anything like the most of the DLC weapons in DA:O, you'll have to level up enough to use it first and at that point it isn't all that overpowered."

Ah, yes. Except for the content that will affect gameplay content won't affect gameplay. Very impressive analysis. Almost as good as "content that is exclusive to people who pre-order is not exclusive to people who pre-order".

Modifié par Sevens, 16 octobre 2010 - 12:03 .

[Sir JK]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I feel curious as to how the extra NPC was written out (I am actually asking, no second meanings here). I just can´t see a high up went to Gaider and co and asked for another party member for DLC. So how was it? Was s/he not going to make the cut before DLC?

If I may speculate, I would probably guess that first the DLC team sits down and plan what to make. Look through their options, toss a few ideas around, look if there's any cut content they can salvage and such. Plan how to spend their budget.
After having established what they were going to make they gathered the people they need; asked Gaider for a writer, a few artists and so on and then got going. Working on it just like the main game, but on a vastly different scale with their own timetable.
Something like that...

[Mudzr]

I just hope that the extra content is important, I mean, why can't it just be like ME2 and DAO where you have the game new to get acsess to the extra content.

I don't really ever pre-order games, if I really want the game i'll buy it the first week it comes out, IDK, I see why they're doing this but I don't like it.

[Sevens]

Mudzr wrote...

I just hope that the extra content is important (...)

Why?

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Urazz wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Ebontine wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Ebontine wrote...

Will you ****ers stop posting complaints already before the game is even released?

If the forums make you as cranky as you sound...

If you're excited about the game, good for you.  You're not alone.  Why you think the forums need to be one big pep rally, I dunno.  Fandom isn't conformity, especially when they've given us plenty of reason to be skeptical by making some big departures on the franchise over Origins.

Asking questions is fine, cool even. Complaining is not. It doesn't get you anywhere other than developers thinking: "Sigh... here we go again.."

But that's wrong... When people complain, a good company listens and hears there complaints, then they fix the game to amend the problems. We'll see whether Bioware does that in the quality of the game. If it IS Dragon May Cry like it looks like in all the videos I watch, hopefully it'll sell terrible and they'll realize the error of their ways. 


If it isn't, and it's as true as they claim it to be, then hopefully it will do well. See it's people like you that screw up the consumer-company relationship. You don't voice your complaints so they aren't heard, so instead it's left to the vocal minority to speak for the majority, which doesn't always work well.

American consumers have lost their power, all because people have become complacent with things "The way they are".

I work in retail so let me tell you something, the American consumer hasn't lost their power when it comes to common sense requests.  It's just that most American consumers tend to be too rude, greedy, and/or demanding.

Hell, here in Bioware's own forums, alot of the complaints are unwarranted so far and only done by the vocal minority.  Bioware is not going to listen to alot of these complaints right now when they haven't even released everything to us.  Right now they'll just be seeing any complaints as minor concerns.

And after the game releases or when we, the customer gets more information? Yeah, they'll take the more constructive complaints more seriously but if the game sells real well, they may not decide to change too much based on these complaints.

Finally, all the whiners need to get it into their thick heads, asides from the extra companion/quests (who will probably be included in all versions of the game you buy to encourage people buying a new game instead of a used copy), most of the other content in the extra stuff in the signature/collector's edition is stuff that won't really effect gameplay all that much asides from the weapons a little bit and if it's anything like the most of the DLC weapons in DA:O, you'll have to level up enough to use it first and at that point it isn't all that overpowered.

I'm gonna tell you straight out, I stopped caring when you said you worked in retail. If you're a higher up I'd wager your first thought is "Increase my profit margin" instead of "Serve the consumer", and that's the problem with todays market. Companies would rather serve their investors then they're consumers, and that's just plain greedy.

[Icinix]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
I'm gonna tell you straight out, I stopped caring when you said you worked in retail. If you're a higher up I'd wager your first thought is "Increase my profit margin" instead of "Serve the consumer", and that's the problem with todays market. Companies would rather serve their investors then they're consumers, and that's just plain greedy.

..and that divide between managements goals and what the consumer wants is getting bigger.  Where the management is all about profits and increasing more and more restrictions on what floor staff can actually do, the consumer is becoming more and more aggressive at the lack of autonomy with the floor staff.

The sad part is it's the floor staff who are getting the abuse from the customers, but no support from the management, so they're stuck as the middle people coping it from both sides, and they're the ones who have the nasty letters written about 'poor service' because they're toeing company lines set by management.

So until the law-makers higher up start to re-connect with their consumers, things are probably only going to get worse.

Off topic, but could't resist throwing my two cents into this.

[Sevens]

Icinix wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
I'm gonna tell you straight out, I stopped caring when you said you worked in retail. If you're a higher up I'd wager your first thought is "Increase my profit margin" instead of "Serve the consumer", and that's the problem with todays market. Companies would rather serve their investors then they're consumers, and that's just plain greedy.

..and that divide between managements goals and what the consumer wants is getting bigger.  Where the management is all about profits and increasing more and more restrictions on what floor staff can actually do, the consumer is becoming more and more aggressive at the lack of autonomy with the floor staff.

The sad part is it's the floor staff who are getting the abuse from the customers, but no support from the management, so they're stuck as the middle people coping it from both sides, and they're the ones who have the nasty letters written about 'poor service' because they're toeing company lines set by management.

So until the law-makers higher up start to re-connect with their consumers, things are probably only going to get worse.

Off topic, but could't resist throwing my two cents into this.

A valid theory.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Icinix wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
I'm gonna tell you straight out, I stopped caring when you said you worked in retail. If you're a higher up I'd wager your first thought is "Increase my profit margin" instead of "Serve the consumer", and that's the problem with todays market. Companies would rather serve their investors then they're consumers, and that's just plain greedy.

..and that divide between managements goals and what the consumer wants is getting bigger.  Where the management is all about profits and increasing more and more restrictions on what floor staff can actually do, the consumer is becoming more and more aggressive at the lack of autonomy with the floor staff.

The sad part is it's the floor staff who are getting the abuse from the customers, but no support from the management, so they're stuck as the middle people coping it from both sides, and they're the ones who have the nasty letters written about 'poor service' because they're toeing company lines set by management.

So until the law-makers higher up start to re-connect with their consumers, things are probably only going to get worse.

Off topic, but could't resist throwing my two cents into this.

You say the consumer has power, but when was the last time you saw a mass boycott? Or a boycott that worked for that matter? When was the last time you saw a company go bankrupt because of scandal? Look at BP! No one even talks about the oil spill, no one cares. 50 years ago they'd be bankrupt by now, instead they're just playing it cool and waiting for it to blow over.

[Skellimancer]

David Gaider wrote...

Zlarm wrote...
10 years ago when dlc wasn't around that cool extra character idea might have been included into the game rather than set as a pre order bonus or as paid dlc...

Incorrect. It wouldn't have been included at all. DLC is created on a different timeline and is separate from the main game in both concept and execution-- the idea that we could or would simply fold these resources into the main game and make it bigger, no strings attached, is a fantasy. The main game is a herculean enough effort to create as it is.

I remember a lot of content being added after NWN's release. Including all new monsters and tilesets. are you suggesting Bioware always intended to add those things but left it for a few years?

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Skellimancer wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Zlarm wrote...
10 years ago when dlc wasn't around that cool extra character idea might have been included into the game rather than set as a pre order bonus or as paid dlc...

Incorrect. It wouldn't have been included at all. DLC is created on a different timeline and is separate from the main game in both concept and execution-- the idea that we could or would simply fold these resources into the main game and make it bigger, no strings attached, is a fantasy. The main game is a herculean enough effort to create as it is.

I remember a lot of content being added after NWN's release. Including all new monsters and tilesets. are you suggesting Bioware always intended to add those things but left it for a few years?

And how long ago was that? Plus, they supported an older game, a game with a much smaller playerbase than it had when it launched, and a game that had much less profit potential.

[Icinix]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
I'm gonna tell you straight out, I stopped caring when you said you worked in retail. If you're a higher up I'd wager your first thought is "Increase my profit margin" instead of "Serve the consumer", and that's the problem with todays market. Companies would rather serve their investors then they're consumers, and that's just plain greedy.

..and that divide between managements goals and what the consumer wants is getting bigger.  Where the management is all about profits and increasing more and more restrictions on what floor staff can actually do, the consumer is becoming more and more aggressive at the lack of autonomy with the floor staff.

The sad part is it's the floor staff who are getting the abuse from the customers, but no support from the management, so they're stuck as the middle people coping it from both sides, and they're the ones who have the nasty letters written about 'poor service' because they're toeing company lines set by management.

So until the law-makers higher up start to re-connect with their consumers, things are probably only going to get worse.

Off topic, but could't resist throwing my two cents into this.

You say the consumer has power, but when was the last time you saw a mass boycott? Or a boycott that worked for that matter? When was the last time you saw a company go bankrupt because of scandal? Look at BP! No one even talks about the oil spill, no one cares. 50 years ago they'd be bankrupt by now, instead they're just playing it cool and waiting for it to blow over.

Never said the consumer has power, said the law-makers (management) have the power, until THEY re-connect with consumers,  things will get worse.

I agree with you.  Not entirely sure how you got 'consumer has power', but that is most definitely not what I was implying.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Icinix wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
I'm gonna tell you straight out, I stopped caring when you said you worked in retail. If you're a higher up I'd wager your first thought is "Increase my profit margin" instead of "Serve the consumer", and that's the problem with todays market. Companies would rather serve their investors then they're consumers, and that's just plain greedy.

..and that divide between managements goals and what the consumer wants is getting bigger.  Where the management is all about profits and increasing more and more restrictions on what floor staff can actually do, the consumer is becoming more and more aggressive at the lack of autonomy with the floor staff.

The sad part is it's the floor staff who are getting the abuse from the customers, but no support from the management, so they're stuck as the middle people coping it from both sides, and they're the ones who have the nasty letters written about 'poor service' because they're toeing company lines set by management.

So until the law-makers higher up start to re-connect with their consumers, things are probably only going to get worse.

Off topic, but could't resist throwing my two cents into this.

You say the consumer has power, but when was the last time you saw a mass boycott? Or a boycott that worked for that matter? When was the last time you saw a company go bankrupt because of scandal? Look at BP! No one even talks about the oil spill, no one cares. 50 years ago they'd be bankrupt by now, instead they're just playing it cool and waiting for it to blow over.

Never said the consumer has power, said the law-makers (management) have the power, until THEY re-connect with consumers,  things will get worse.

I agree with you.  Not entirely sure how you got 'consumer has power', but that is most definitely not what I was implying.

Oh my bad, I thought you were the guy I was quoting responding to me. Disregard that then.

[Icinix]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Oh my bad, I thought you were the guy I was quoting responding to me. Disregard that then.

LOL. My fault for butting in.

[Kail Ashton]

bjdbwea wrote...


An unimportant customer

Well, you got one thing right~! So pre ordering inconviences you how? is buying only on day 1 that super vital to you? do you have some compulsive behavior disorder where you can only buy things on day 1 releases? 

Or is this another completely asinine complaint?  i'm leaning toward the later frankly.

Clearly you've never seen a "sign up now and receave blah blah blah for a limited time only!" this practice in buisness is older than you and your brother & sister parents that raised you, don't blame bioware for your ignorance in buisness practice

Modifié par Kail Ashton, 16 octobre 2010 - 01:28 .

[ladydesire]

Kail Ashton wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


An unimportant customer

Well, you got one thing right~! So pre ordering inconviences you how? is buying only on day 1 that super vital to you? do you have some compulsive behavior disorder where you can only buy things on day 1 releases? 

Or is this another completely asinine complaint?  i'm leaning toward the later frankly.

I'm leaning toward someone that doesn't understand that certain things related to a DLC need to be included in the base game, rather than having the DLC override included content. The earlier example of Shale frrom the Stone Prisoner DLC is a perfect example; every place where Shale has a comment to make in a given dialog, the party selection screen, even the ability to hire Shale at all need to be handled in the base game, since otherwise a player created companion mod would break the DLC (mind you, this is the way it would happen on PC, since consoles don't get mods).

[Maconbar]

Kail Ashton wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


An unimportant customer

Well, you got one thing right~! So pre ordering inconviences you how? is buying only on day 1 that super vital to you? do you have some compulsive behavior disorder where you can only buy things on day 1 releases? 

Or is this another completely asinine complaint?  i'm leaning toward the later frankly.

Clearly you've never seen a "sign up now and receave blah blah blah for a limited time only!" this practice in buisness is older than you and your brother & sister parents that raised you, don't blame bioware for your ignorance in buisness practice

Nice personal attack.

[Kail Ashton]

ladydesire wrote...


I'm leaning toward someone that doesn't understand that certain things related to a DLC need to be included in the base game, rather than having the DLC override included content. The earlier example of Shale frrom the Stone Prisoner DLC is a perfect example; every place where Shale has a comment to make in a given dialog, the party selection screen, even the ability to hire Shale at all need to be handled in the base game, since otherwise a player created companion mod would break the DLC (mind you, this is the way it would happen on PC, since consoles don't get mods).

That might be a valid point if you were an employed programmer at bioware or sat in on any meetings that allowed you knowledge in the matter, unfortunetly you're some faceless person on a computer who can only make conspiracy theories or estimated guesses

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Kail Ashton wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


An unimportant customer

Well, you got one thing right~! So pre ordering inconviences you how? is buying only on day 1 that super vital to you? do you have some compulsive behavior disorder where you can only buy things on day 1 releases? 

Or is this another completely asinine complaint?  i'm leaning toward the later frankly.

Clearly you've never seen a "sign up now and receave blah blah blah for a limited time only!" this practice in buisness is older than you and your brother & sister parents that raised you, don't blame bioware for your ignorance in buisness practice

That doesn't make it right, and that doesn't make it right for you to do nothing to make it right.

[The Masked Rog]

They've made extra content that didn't make it into the game and assigned it a price. Then they offered it free to those who preorder. Don't see how anyone who doesn't preorder can feel entitled to it.

[Sevens]

Kail Ashton wrote...

ladydesire wrote...


I'm leaning toward someone that doesn't understand that certain things related to a DLC need to be included in the base game, rather than having the DLC override included content. The earlier example of Shale frrom the Stone Prisoner DLC is a perfect example; every place where Shale has a comment to make in a given dialog, the party selection screen, even the ability to hire Shale at all need to be handled in the base game, since otherwise a player created companion mod would break the DLC (mind you, this is the way it would happen on PC, since consoles don't get mods).

That might be a valid point if you were an employed programmer at bioware or sat in on any meetings that allowed you knowledge in the matter, unfortunetly you're some faceless person on a computer who can only make conspiracy theories or estimated guesses

That might be a valid point if you knew what you are talking about -- or were an employed programmer at bioware or sat in on any meetings that allowed you knowledge in the matter, unfortunetly you're some faceless person on a computer who can only make conspiracy theories or estimated guesses. Now go out and play.