967 réponses à ce sujet

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Kail Ashton wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...


An unimportant customer

Well, you got one thing right~! So pre ordering inconviences you how? is buying only on day 1 that super vital to you? do you have some compulsive behavior disorder where you can only buy things on day 1 releases? 

Or is this another completely asinine complaint?  i'm leaning toward the later frankly.

Clearly you've never seen a "sign up now and receave blah blah blah for a limited time only!" this practice in buisness is older than you and your brother & sister parents that raised you, don't blame bioware for your ignorance in buisness practice

That doesn't make it right, and that doesn't make it right for you to do nothing to make it right.

[Ebontine]

Just let this thread die then.

[Bruno Hslaw]

I believe the Op was more annoyed at BW for trying to entice people into buying the game blind or losing out on the full contents (completionists I am looking at you lot) I actually can not be bothered and find I am getting less inclined to put up with Game company BS.



For example I cancelled both preorders for Gothic 4 and Two worlds 2 because of their BS (both companies waited till release date and put the release date back, we all know they know well before release date if they have a problem and did not manage to go gold but waiting to release day that is even bigger BS than normal delays which are usually delivered with a bit of notice)



Now I have developed a great patience with my games and thing stuff it, if they play games I will buy it preowned and they can swing for their profits. Screw me OK I will screw you. I used to put up with BS like many here think is their only option, but I will not be screwed around with any more.



BW attempting to get us to buy before we can check the game out seems a bit desperate a measure, to get the sale before we find out what the game is like seems odd unless they are selling a lemon. This makes me suspect they know its a lemon and they want to trick me into buying by waving a few shiney's at me, before I see the goods.



It is like buying a car and telling us not only can we not have a test drive but we can not even see the car, but hey we are giving you some fuzzy dice !!!

[bjdbwea]

Indeed. That's why I initially asked the question how much more the customers are willing to accept. If this thread is any indication, it's a lot yet. But then again, no one knows how expressing of the general opinion among potential customers a forum is. The sales numbers will tell the real story. And no, I am not predicting anything in that regard.

[Elanareon]

shepard_lives wrote...

One word.

Shale.

That is all.

Shale was free unless you buy 2nd hand games... It was an anti 2nd hand buyer move, to get some cash even from 2nd hand buyers... I don't blame them for that..

[Bruno Hslaw]

I reckon the biggest problem is so many games are so far short of what developers claim, that people with more money than sense simply accept mediocre development by companies and then buy another game.

If more quality games were released that would shake the lazy complacent companies up and force them to earn our cash. At present the industry is so vanilla that all companies seem much the same these days. This coupled with people having more money than brains means that games companies can and do get money for old rope.

I do not blame developers why should they strive to make quality when vanilla is fine by the average fan boy.

Modifié par Bruno Hslaw, 16 octobre 2010 - 02:30 .

[FieryDove]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

I remember a lot of content being added after NWN's release. Including all new monsters and tilesets. are you suggesting Bioware always intended to add those things but left it for a few years?

And how long ago was that? Plus, they supported an older game, a game with a much smaller playerbase than it had when it launched, and a game that had much less profit potential.

Things were cheaper to develop back then. It was also about building rep/goodwill and supporting the players - customers. Now they can't do that or at least much even if they wanted too. Also they didn't have to travel down that dark alley called multi-platform certification nightmare. Which is expensive and limits content and patches in a big way.

Also a lot of content came from premium modules...dlc back then I guess. Seperate mini-adventures. But there was that huge content patch from community members that was awesome. They couldn't do that now because of the dark alley.

I would love a community one-in-all content patch not to just add things but all the bug fixes for dao and daa. But it would be PC only and that will go over well. I guess we could form a protest at Sony/MS headquarters complete with signs of protest but its doubful to have any effect since we buy whatever games they allow to be published anyhow. blargh

[bjdbwea]

Bruno Hslaw wrote...

I reckon the biggest problem is so many games are so far short of what developers claim, that people with more money than sense simply accept mediocre development by companies and then buy another game.

If more quality games were released that would shake the lazy complacent companies up and force them to earn our cash. At present the industry is so vanilla that all companies seem much the same these days. This coupled with people having more money than brains means that games companies can and do get money for old rope.

I do not blame developers why should they strive to make quality when vanilla is fine by the average fan boy.

The industry has certainly changed a lot in the recent years, mostly to the disadvantage of the players. But you can indeed not blame a company if they have customers that are so willing to accept everything. That's indeed a free market. In other branches, such a trend is often stopped sooner or later because at some point the customers have enough and stop buying. Maybe this will happen in the video games industry too some day. Or maybe not, because after all, this is all just for entertainment purposes, and people have more tolerance in this sector than they have in normal, necessary purchases.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

FieryDove wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

I remember a lot of content being added after NWN's release. Including all new monsters and tilesets. are you suggesting Bioware always intended to add those things but left it for a few years?

And how long ago was that? Plus, they supported an older game, a game with a much smaller playerbase than it had when it launched, and a game that had much less profit potential.

Things were cheaper to develop back then. It was also about building rep/goodwill and supporting the players - customers. Now they can't do that or at least much even if they wanted too.

Again with the "It's too expensive and not profitable" thing.

Ever played TF2 or L4D on the PC?

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

bjdbwea wrote...

Bruno Hslaw wrote...

I reckon the biggest problem is so many games are so far short of what developers claim, that people with more money than sense simply accept mediocre development by companies and then buy another game.

If more quality games were released that would shake the lazy complacent companies up and force them to earn our cash. At present the industry is so vanilla that all companies seem much the same these days. This coupled with people having more money than brains means that games companies can and do get money for old rope.

I do not blame developers why should they strive to make quality when vanilla is fine by the average fan boy.

The industry has certainly changed a lot in the recent years, mostly to the disadvantage of the players. But you can indeed not blame a company if they have customers that are so willing to accept everything. That's indeed a free market. In other branches, such a trend is often stopped sooner or later because at some point the customers have enough and stop buying. Maybe this will happen in the video games industry too some day. Or maybe not, because after all, this is all just for entertainment purposes, and people have more tolerance in this sector than they have in normal, necessary purchases.

Maybe you can't blame them, but I can. Just because you CAN take advantage of people, doesn't mean you should do it.

It's like stealing candy from a baby.

[Mykel54]

You can´t say that you are going "blind" because there are still 2 months, 3 weeks and 5 days before the DA2 collector (signature) edition is no longer available. Now, if we were at 10 of january and we had no information, then yes i would agree with you that we don´t have enough information to decide. But that is not the case, and there is still a lot of time when bioware could give us more information about the game, thus making the decision of pre-ordering or not easier to make. If you preorder right now and later on are disappointed about it, then it is your fault, you could have waited to know more about the game.



I don´t know if you noticed but this "signature edition" does have a difference from other collector editions. If you read carefully you will see that your "normal" edition is upgraded to signature edition, you do not buy the signature edition directly. What i mean is that it is not like other games, where the collector editions are limited in numbers. It seems that the new approach of bioware is to give codes that allow you access to the signature extra content, therefore the limit is based on date (11 january is the limit of time) instead of physical number of copies.

[FieryDove]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Again with the "It's too expensive and not profitable" thing.

Ever played TF2 or L4D on the PC?

I can only go by what the Dev's have said. Costs have gone up a lot in game development. And I believe it.

It's like movies in a way, if one doesn't spend at least 100 million on a movie its considered low-budget b grade even before it hits the theaters. In a few years that cost threshold will probable be 250 million.

[Sir JK]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
Maybe you can't blame them, but I can. Just because you CAN take advantage of people, doesn't mean you should do it.
It's like stealing candy from a baby.

Take advantage of people? Stealing candy from babies?

I seriously don't understand... Bioware creates new content using a separate pile of money that they add to any preorders happening from now (and earlier) to exactly two months prior to release. Included into the cost should you decide that the preorder is worth it. There is nothing forcing you to do anyhting. There is no fine text tricking you. It's a completely open and honest offer, an incentive to preorder. It's practically the equalient of a baker's dozen (a tradition where bakers used to thrown in a extra bun if you bought a dozen).

Moreover... what makes you assume you have a right to anything beyond choosing to spend money or not? Bioware doesn't have to add this kind of content, they could not and we'd be none the wiser and no content richer. They are not taking anything from you. They are not decieving you.
They are simply offering people who haven't decided yet something extra and rewarding those that have decided to preorder. They are not taking advantage of anything... they are just offering bread and a glass of water as something included when you order a meal at their resturant, to use an analogy.

What is it about all this that makes them evil on earth and that warrants this... crusade?

[Bruno Hslaw]

Mykel54 wrote...

You can´t say that you are going "blind" because there are still 2 months, 3 weeks and 5 days before the DA2 collector (signature) edition is no longer available. Now, if we were at 10 of january and we had no information, then yes i would agree with you that we don´t have enough information to decide. But that is not the case, and there is still a lot of time when bioware could give us more information about the game, thus making the decision of pre-ordering or not easier to make. If you preorder right now and later on are disappointed about it, then it is your fault, you could have waited to know more about the game.

I don´t know if you noticed but this "signature edition" does have a difference from other collector editions. If you read carefully you will see that your "normal" edition is upgraded to signature edition, you do not buy the signature edition directly. What i mean is that it is not like other games, where the collector editions are limited in numbers. It seems that the new approach of bioware is to give codes that allow you access to the signature extra content, therefore the limit is based on date (11 january is the limit of time) instead of physical number of copies.

Well for a start many game suppliers are already charging about 25% extra for this where I live so that is not strictly true about a freebie from BW.

Plus IMO it is going blind until you actually get to see if they actually manage to make a stable game rather than a buggy piece of junk that they wont bother fixing like they did with ME1. Reviews pre release are all well and good but often biased up the gazoo. Especially when provided by the developer.

Why I can not buy new a week or 2 after launch having verified the quality (I will not take BW word as they have been "wrong" about having a stable finished game to often since EA) Is beyond me as this would not effect the sales just delay them a bit. UNLESS they are attempting to sell a lemon and tell me its lemonade, which this move seems to indicate.

[Trintrin86]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so forgive me if this is already addressed but has it been pointed out that you can pre-order to take advantage of the promotion then cancel whenever the heck you want if you decide that you don't really want the darn thing?



"Order early and get.." promotions have been around forever. Geeze.

[ladydesire]

Kail Ashton

That might be a valid point if you were an employed programmer at bioware or sat in on any meetings that allowed you knowledge in the matter, unfortunetly you're some faceless person on a computer who can only make conspiracy theories or estimated guesses

Maybe I am some faceless person at a computer on the Internet, but that computer has both Dragon Age: Origins and the Dragon Age Toolset installed on it, and I have in fact seen what I described in my previous post regarding Shale in the DA Toolset; no conspiracy theories or estimated guesses needed, especially when I'm having to work with other modders to make sure that my companions don't interfere with theirs in exactly the way I described.

[Bruno Hslaw]

Trintrin86 wrote...

I haven't read through the entire thread, so forgive me if this is already addressed but has it been pointed out that you can pre-order to take advantage of the promotion then cancel whenever the heck you want if you decide that you don't really want the darn thing?

"Order early and get.." promotions have been around forever. Geeze.

This however says buy blind before seeing the finished product. Not cancel if not impressed.

If it is crap you will not know until you have bought it. People go on about Shale DLC well at least you could get that a week later than release day having seen and played the game seeing a few positive gamer reviews. This avoids all that making sure they get paid up front before the game is verified.

If they were so sure of their game why try and force us to buy blind. Smells off IMO. Why insist you have to buy before you try if it is so great??

[Sir JK]

Bruno Hslaw wrote...
This however says buy blind before seeing the finished product. Not cancel if not impressed.
If it is crap you will not know until you have bought it. People go on about Shale DLC well at least you could get that a week later than release day having seen and played the game seeing a few positive gamer reviews. This avoids all that making sure they get paid up front before the game is verified.
If they were so sure of their game why try and force us to buy blind. Smells off IMO. Why insist you have to buy before you try if it is so great??

There is no forcing you to do anything. You are still free to wait until after the release to see how the game is. You are still free to choose not to buy the game. All this is is a if you do happen to decide to buy our game before release we're throwing this character in, included in the price. The choice is always yours.
If you don't think it is worth buying the game+extra character before you've seen it's not buggy, then don't. It's your prerogative and right to choose not to. It's quite smart too. To be certain you wish to spend money on it.

[MrCrabby]

Two things...



Mr. Gaider the difference between DLC and expansion packs are not just distribution. Expansion packs cost between 15 and twenty dollars and offered substantial gameplay enhancements and new content. So far I have yet to see DLC from bioware that offered more then one hour of hack and slash BS and a player seven dollars poorer. This isn't just my opinion I have seen countless others say the same thing.



Secondly I take issue with people using the phrase "combating used game sales" as if used games were immoral or stealing from the devs. Game companies seem to have a disorder that makes them believe they are different from all other businesses. Could you imagine if GM disabled the radio and air conditioning in a used car unless you paid them three grand to "unlock" those features? Or if you bought a used computer that only ran at half the speed until you paid intel an activation fee to unlock the other half of the cpu? Why should used games be any different?

[The Masked Rog]

ladydesire wrote...

Kail Ashton

That might be a valid point if you were an employed programmer at bioware or sat in on any meetings that allowed you knowledge in the matter, unfortunetly you're some faceless person on a computer who can only make conspiracy theories or estimated guesses

Maybe I am some faceless person at a computer on the Internet, but that computer has both Dragon Age: Origins and the Dragon Age Toolset installed on it, and I have in fact seen what I described in my previous post regarding Shale in the DA Toolset; no conspiracy theories or estimated guesses needed, especially when I'm having to work with other modders to make sure that my companions don't interfere with theirs in exactly the way I described.

It has already been explained that some info about Shale was on the toolset so that it was possible to plug Shale in with minimal conflicts. That doesn't mean the Shale DLC was done by the time the game code went gold.

[bjdbwea]

Sir JK wrote...

Bioware creates new content using a separate pile of money that they add to any preorders happening from now (and earlier) to exactly two months prior to release.

A "separate pile of money" (I'm sure you know their financial details), that comes from where, exactly? Enchantment? No. Of course not. It's paid for by everyone who buys the game. By everyone who buys the game. But only those who pre-order the game, will get the content "for free". If you walk into a store on release day, you buy the game for the same amount of money, included in the price is your small percentage of the development costs, but you do not get the whole content.

Sir JK wrote...

Bioware doesn't have to add this kind of content, they could not and we'd be none the wiser and no content richer.

Yes, they have. Why? Because they want to advertise pre-ordering with it. Do you honestly believe that this is some sort of generosity? That someone said, "oh well, here's a pile of money, create a gift for our fans with it"? If only. BioWare used to do something like that in the past indeed, but then it was made available to everyone who had purchased the game, not used for a scheme like this.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 16 octobre 2010 - 03:48 .

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

FieryDove wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Again with the "It's too expensive and not profitable" thing.

Ever played TF2 or L4D on the PC?

I can only go by what the Dev's have said. Costs have gone up a lot in game development. And I believe it.

It's like movies in a way, if one doesn't spend at least 100 million on a movie its considered low-budget b grade even before it hits the theaters. In a few years that cost threshold will probable be 250 million.

Oh I'm sorry, so you're just trusting a company on their word? A company, who by definition, is trying to make as much money as possible?

[The Masked Rog]

A "separate pile of money" (I'm sure you know their financial details), that comes from where, exactly? Enchantment? No. Of course not. It's paid for by everyone who buys the game. By everyone who buys the game. But only those who pre-order the game, will get the content "for free". If you walk into a store on release day, you buy the game for the same amount of money, included in the price is your small percentage of the development costs, but you do not get the whole conten

I don't thin BioWare is developing Dragon Age 2 out of the money they will get for it. They are developing it from money from previous games. Guess what, you paid for Origins and you funded Dragon Age 2.They will get money from Dragon Age 2 sales, and they will develop other games with it.

Don't supermarket's have pay 3 take 4 kind of discounts where you live? It is almost the same thing. Somebody gets more content for the same money, if you arrive late, you have to pay for the extra content. Oldest marketing strategy on the book.

[The Masked Rog]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Again with the "It's too expensive and not profitable" thing.

Ever played TF2 or L4D on the PC?

I can only go by what the Dev's have said. Costs have gone up a lot in game development. And I believe it.

It's like movies in a way, if one doesn't spend at least 100 million on a movie its considered low-budget b grade even before it hits the theaters. In a few years that cost threshold will probable be 250 million.

Oh I'm sorry, so you're just trusting a company on their word? A company, who by definition, is trying to make as much money as possible?

Of course not! We should just trust random forumites! They are sure to have the precise numbers right there!

[Wulfram]

The Masked Rog wrote...

Of course not! We should just trust random forumites! They are sure to have the precise numbers right there!

At least random forumites aren't trying to part you from your money.