967 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir JK]

bjdbwea wrote...
A "separate pile of money" (I'm sure you know their financial details), that comes from where, exactly? Enchantment? No. Of course not. It's paid for by everyone who buys the game. By everyone who buys the game. But only those who pre-order the game, will get the content "for free". If you walk into a store on release day, you buy the game for the same amount of money, included in the price is your small percentage of the development costs, but you do not get the whole content.

Bioware has the past 24 hours explained a number of times that the DLC is developed using a separate budget, hence "separate pile of money". It is not part of the Dragon Age 2 project, but the Dragon Age 2 DLC project. Sorry that I was unclear in that regard.
This particular DLC is as you say included in the price (at no additional cost), because it adds marketing value. Bioware is simply willing to tack this relatively cheap add-on onto the game to help sales. It is still a separate product that you get at no additional cost, should you choose to accept the promotional offer.

Yes, they have. Why? Because they want to advertise pre-ordering with it. Do you honestly believe that this is some sort of generosity? That someone said, "oh well, here's a pile of money, create a gift for our fans with it"? If only. BioWare used to do something like that in the past indeed, but then it was made available to everyone who had purchased the game, not used for a scheme like this.

No, I do not believe it is generosity. I believe it is marketing. Used as a promotional offer. You are free to choose wether or not you are willing to accept it. It is not a scheme, but an offer. Just like buy 2 get one for free or if you buy your car before date x we will add leather seats at no extra cost.
An add on. Used for marketing value. Developed using separate resources.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Sir JK wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
A "separate pile of money" (I'm sure you know their financial details), that comes from where, exactly? Enchantment? No. Of course not. It's paid for by everyone who buys the game. By everyone who buys the game. But only those who pre-order the game, will get the content "for free". If you walk into a store on release day, you buy the game for the same amount of money, included in the price is your small percentage of the development costs, but you do not get the whole content.

Bioware has the past 24 hours explained a number of times that the DLC is developed using a separate budget, hence "separate pile of money". It is not part of the Dragon Age 2 project, but the Dragon Age 2 DLC project. Sorry that I was unclear in that regard.
This particular DLC is as you say included in the price (at no additional cost), because it adds marketing value. Bioware is simply willing to tack this relatively cheap add-on onto the game to help sales. It is still a separate product that you get at no additional cost, should you choose to accept the promotional offer.

Yes, they have. Why? Because they want to advertise pre-ordering with it. Do you honestly believe that this is some sort of generosity? That someone said, "oh well, here's a pile of money, create a gift for our fans with it"? If only. BioWare used to do something like that in the past indeed, but then it was made available to everyone who had purchased the game, not used for a scheme like this.

No, I do not believe it is generosity. I believe it is marketing. Used as a promotional offer. You are free to choose wether or not you are willing to accept it. It is not a scheme, but an offer. Just like buy 2 get one for free or if you buy your car before date x we will add leather seats at no extra cost.
An add on. Used for marketing value. Developed using separate resources.

Don't fool yourself, it's a scheme. You can't change the reality by sugarcoating it.

[The Masked Rog]

Sir JK wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
A "separate pile of money" (I'm sure you know their financial details), that comes from where, exactly? Enchantment? No. Of course not. It's paid for by everyone who buys the game. By everyone who buys the game. But only those who pre-order the game, will get the content "for free". If you walk into a store on release day, you buy the game for the same amount of money, included in the price is your small percentage of the development costs, but you do not get the whole content.

Bioware has the past 24 hours explained a number of times that the DLC is developed using a separate budget, hence "separate pile of money". It is not part of the Dragon Age 2 project, but the Dragon Age 2 DLC project. Sorry that I was unclear in that regard.
This particular DLC is as you say included in the price (at no additional cost), because it adds marketing value. Bioware is simply willing to tack this relatively cheap add-on onto the game to help sales. It is still a separate product that you get at no additional cost, should you choose to accept the promotional offer.

Yes, they have. Why? Because they want to advertise pre-ordering with it. Do you honestly believe that this is some sort of generosity? That someone said, "oh well, here's a pile of money, create a gift for our fans with it"? If only. BioWare used to do something like that in the past indeed, but then it was made available to everyone who had purchased the game, not used for a scheme like this.

No, I do not believe it is generosity. I believe it is marketing. Used as a promotional offer. You are free to choose wether or not you are willing to accept it. It is not a scheme, but an offer. Just like buy 2 get one for free or if you buy your car before date x we will add leather seats at no extra cost.
An add on. Used for marketing value. Developed using separate resources.

And I might just add that every customer who buys that car will be paying for the leather seats that only some will get.

[Sirsmirkalot]

Well, this signature edition does it for me and I'll be saving my money for the Witcher 2 first.

What happened to you Bioware? Why did you become so apparently greedy the past year?

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:04 .

[Sir JK]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
Don't fool yourself, it's a scheme. You can't change the reality by sugarcoating it.

Out of curiosity... when a local shop holds a sale or promotional offers are they also scheming you according to your defintion?

The Masked Rog:
Really? Serves me right for using analogies I don't fully understand then. My mistake. Still, this is not the case here. Here they are offering this incentive extra to boost sales (so they can sell more DLC later. Would be sort of difficult if not enough people have DA2). So here the DLC is question is offered as part of marketing. Not paid for, as it were. .. for now

Modifié par Sir JK, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:05 .

[bjdbwea]

Sir JK wrote...

Just like buy 2 get one for free or if you buy your car before date x we will add leather seats at no extra cost.

That comparison is not valid, because in both of these cases, the product in question is at least already available. That means, I can make an informed decision whether I want to purchase the product or not. This is not the case with DA 2. This "offer" ends two months before the game is even released and available for testing.

[The Masked Rog]

bjdbwea wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

Just like buy 2 get one for free or if you buy your car before date x we will add leather seats at no extra cost.

That comparison is not valid, because in both of these cases, the product in question is at least already available. That means, I can make an informed decision whether I want to purchase the product or not. This is not the case with DA 2. This "offer" ends two months before the game is even released and available for testing.

Pre order a book x time before release and you get a second one free? Happens all the time, never saw anybody complain. What's so wrong about companies offering extras to those who pre order. It's well within their rights. I know I won't pre order because I want to see some reviews first and I do not feel offended by this. They just want to get people to pre order by giving them a bonus.

[nightcobra]

Sir JK wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
Don't fool yourself, it's a scheme. You can't change the reality by sugarcoating it.

Out of curiosity... when a local shop holds a sale or promotional offers are they also scheming you according to your defintion?

probably:P

lady:your cake will be ready for you tomorrow, please accept this muffin as our thanks and we hope for you to keeping shopping at this store.

customer: a complementary muffin? free of charge, you monster! i feel insulted and i'll never put my foot in here again, good day madam:devil: and btw the cake is a lie!

[In Exile]

Someone in this thread mentioned that corporations focus on serving their investors before consumers, and that it should be the opposite. Maybe, but as of right now that is outright illegal. A company outright cannot act in a matter that would not maximize shareholder return.

[Jimmy Fury]

Bruno Hslaw wrote...

Trintrin86 wrote...

I haven't read through the entire thread, so forgive me if this is already addressed but has it been pointed out that you can pre-order to take advantage of the promotion then cancel whenever the heck you want if you decide that you don't really want the darn thing?

"Order early and get.." promotions have been around forever. Geeze.

This however says buy blind before seeing the finished product. Not cancel if not impressed.

If it is crap you will not know until you have bought it. People go on about Shale DLC well at least you could get that a week later than release day having seen and played the game seeing a few positive gamer reviews. This avoids all that making sure they get paid up front before the game is verified.

If they were so sure of their game why try and force us to buy blind. Smells off IMO. Why insist you have to buy before you try if it is so great??

First and foremost. No one is forcing you to do anything.
Secondly, like trintrin said this is nothing new. Contrary to what you seem to think "order early and get..." is the exact same thing as "buy bling before seeing the finished product". It always has been and always will be.

And last but not least, if you don't like trintrin's suggetion, how about  using a bit of patience and not opening your preorder?
That's my plan.
See i'm in the crappy position of having a dealbreaker that I won't know about until after the game is released. At the same time i'm a loot wh*re and wants me some preorder bonuses and SE goodies.
But I'm also patient. All I have to do is not open my preorder and wait to find out about my dealbreaker. If they do what I fear then I can take my unopened game back to Gamestop and get a full refund.

[Sir JK]

The Masked Rog wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
That comparison is not valid, because in both of these cases, the product in question is at least already available. That means, I can make an informed decision whether I want to purchase the product or not. This is not the case with DA 2. This "offer" ends two months before the game is even released and available for testing.

Pre order a book x time before release and you get a second one free? Happens all the time, never saw anybody complain. What's so wrong about companies offering extras to those who pre order. It's well within their rights. I know I won't pre order because I want to see some reviews first and I do not feel offended by this. They just want to get people to pre order by giving them a bonus.

Thank you, a much better analogy than mine

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Sir JK wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
Don't fool yourself, it's a scheme. You can't change the reality by sugarcoating it.

Out of curiosity... when a local shop holds a sale or promotional offers are they also scheming you according to your defintion?

The Masked Rog:
Really? Serves me right for using analogies I don't fully understand then. My mistake. Still, this is not the case here. Here they are offering this incentive extra to boost sales (so they can sell more DLC later. Would be sort of difficult if not enough people have DA2). So here the DLC is question is offered as part of marketing. Not paid for, as it were. .. for now

Yes they are. They may claim it's "For the benefit" but 9 out of 10 times, if they would lose money from it, they wouldn't do it.

Even donations to charity. By donating to charity companies get better reputations, it makes them look good and makes people overlook their previous faults. This combined with possible media coverage gets them more consumers who, in the long run, cause them to gain more money than they spent.

[bjdbwea]

In Exile wrote...

Someone in this thread mentioned that corporations focus on serving their investors before consumers, and that it should be the opposite. Maybe, but as of right now that is outright illegal. A company outright cannot act in a matter that would not maximize shareholder return.

And the customer has to be happy with all the results of that, whatever the cost to the product? Or is it not the right of the customer to complain, however small the chances might be that something changes? I do not understand why some are posting here like they they have to defend the company. You are the customers, shouldn't you first and foremost care about your own interests? Of course it's in your interest to get this content, but you'd still get it if it was included with each newly bought game.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:21 .

[Sir JK]

TonyTheBossDanza123 : Ah. Allright then. By your definition, it is a scheme. Thank you for indulging my curiosity

Modifié par Sir JK, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:20 .

[nightcobra]

Sir JK wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 : Ah. Allright then. By your definition, it is a scheme. Thank you for indulging my curiosity

well, it's his/her viewpoint on the matter so we can't really do anything about that as he's/she's entitled to it, whatever that opinion may be. 

[upsettingshorts]

What's wrong with schemes?

[nightcobra]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

What's wrong with schemes?

i.....have a cunning plan

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:27 .

[The Masked Rog]

bjdbwea wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Someone in this thread mentioned that corporations focus on serving their investors before consumers, and that it should be the opposite. Maybe, but as of right now that is outright illegal. A company outright cannot act in a matter that would not maximize shareholder return.

And the customer has to be happy with all the results of that, whatever the cost to the product? Or is it not the right of the customer to complain, however small the chances might be that something changes? I do not understand why some are posting here like they they have to defend the company. You are the customers, shouldn't you first and foremost care about your own interests? Of course it's in your interest to get this content, but you'd still get it if it was included with each newly bought game.

It's in my interest to get the game cheaper or free. I won't campaign for it either. Companies decide what their pricings are and how their offers work. Perhaps BioWare doesn't want to give 20$ content to everybody who buys the game because - how dare they? - they want to sell it to those people. But they also want to get more pre orders, so they offer the DLC to those who preorder. NOthing wrong with it. But it would be better for me if the game was 50% cheaper, come with DLC and a bonus muffin. Me likes muffins.

[upsettingshorts]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i.....have a cunning plan

Could you pin a tail on it and call it a weasel?

[nightcobra]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i.....have a cunning plan

Could you pin a tail on it and call it a weasel?

tried it with a pig's tail once ser, ever heard of a lord cunningham? 

[Jimmy Fury]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 : Ah. Allright then. By your definition, it is a scheme. Thank you for indulging my curiosity

well, it's his/her viewpoint on the matter so we can't really do anything about that as he's/she's entitled to it, whatever that opinion may be. 

yeah... no. opinions can be wrong. Absurd uninformed (definitively so btw. Tony has admitted to not wanting to listen to anything said by anyone who works in the retail industry.) opinions are almost always wrong.
People are certainly entitled to having incorrect opinions but we can, and should, do everything in our power to correct them. To not do so is to endorse ignorance.

[Kilshrek]

Pre-ordering the normal edition to get what is essentially the collector's edition would make sense in Australia. Even though AUD = USD right now, we pay anything from $89 - $119 for a new game. Mind you this is only the normal editions we're talking about. I would be fully behind an Australian player feeling rather ripped off in the way of day 1 DLC being meant for core game. Not that that is the scenario here mind you, that was just a hypothetical situation.

EB Games currently lists the RRP of DA 2 at $78, though that is likely to go up soon. JB Hi-fi would obviously have some devious scheme to undercut EB Games at day 1 sale, so your final price may be -$10 RRP at day 1. American buyers pay $60 for their games? You don't know the luxury you have.

I also know that an Australian player would have between now and Jan 11 to make a decision, in which time more information regarding the game would surely come out. But what about those who aren't really in the know? Who hasn't had a friend tell them about Dragon Age 2? After Jan 11 they're going to have to cough up roughly $20 to get content which may or may not have been able to be included in the core game.

Now there is also the argument that the OST alone is worth $20, fair enough, likely is. But what about the NPC? $7 to get a character who may or may not be super interesting and adds to the gameplay experience? An NPC like Kasumi who gets announced much later on, and especially after launch, wouldn't raise as many eyebrows as a day 1 DLC NPC.

It comes down to what people feel is worth their money. I also realise that you pay NOTHING extra to get the bonus content right now, and that is the whole point of it, but I think some people are arguing on the principle of it. Not the principle of Bioware offering a pre-order bonus, but such content as some deem to be meant for the main game but was secreted away in favour of being turned into DLC.

I may sound like a broken record on this, but that is how I feel Mafia 2 was done, with a whole slew of features taken out of the game and turned into gimmicky DLC. With that done, the core Mafia 2 game didn't feel worth the $100 I paid for. Nowhere near it, in fact. And I paid the same amount for Medal of Honor, which I have little to complain about, even though I completed the campaign in 2 nights of playing.


edit : Blasto, I don't find much to facepalm about. Mostly interesting stuff to read, and it's keeping me occupied until Fable 3. *dodges dagger stares and fireballs*
And until more DA 2 information comes out. Especially hoping for a gameplay video. Plenty of unofficial ones have come out, painting pretty/ugly pictures, and bringing certain hair styles into the lives of many of us with little better to do with our spare time. Bring on the Bioware stamped stuff! 

Modifié par Kilshrek, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:42 .

[AndarianTD]

Bioware has every right to try to encourage early sales by offering bonus content for pre-orders. Not only do I not mind their doing this, but I encourage, applaud, and appreciate it.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:38 .

[nightcobra]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 : Ah. Allright then. By your definition, it is a scheme. Thank you for indulging my curiosity

well, it's his/her viewpoint on the matter so we can't really do anything about that as he's/she's entitled to it, whatever that opinion may be. 

yeah... no. opinions can be wrong. Absurd uninformed (definitively so btw. Tony has admitted to not wanting to listen to anything said by anyone who works in the retail industry.) opinions are almost always wrong.
People are certainly entitled to having incorrect opinions but we can, and should, do everything in our power to correct them. To not do so is to endorse ignorance.

rather than correct, i believe it's more to provide people with enough information so that they can make a well informed opinion even if it is one contrary to our own.