967 réponses à ce sujet

[Bullets McDeath]

Jesus, I love it. Bioware gives sh!t away for free, and the boards burn for days and days with righteous indignation about... well, I'm not entirely sure what, to be honest. That things cost money? That DLC exists? Something about Fox News, too.



I wish there was a way to archive these threads when this storm has passed so they can stored somewhere no future civilization could ever possibly bear witness to them.

[Jimmy Fury]

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

AndarianTD wrote...

Bioware has every right to try to encourage early sales by offering bonus content for pre-orders. Not only do I not mind their doing this, but I encourage, applaud, and appreciate it.

In other words, you approve of promoting blind purchases.

Are you equally against pre-ordering tickets to a concert, advanced sales of tickets to a movie premier, pre-ordering CD's and books, cold openings of new restaraunts, purchasing shoes online, all of those toys with a mystery item, mystery flavor gum, and setting up college funds for children?

Because those are all also blind purchases. Concerts are different every single time, movies have only been seen by test audiences and paid reviewers prior to the premier, same with CD's and books, cold openings exist for people to try the menu and offer advice, you don't try on shoes when you buy them online, mystery anything is definitely a blind purchase, and there's no way of knowing if you kid will even survive until college let alone go...

Blind purchases are all over the place. This one just comes with extra loot and a spiffy case.

[Meltemph]

I wonder where the line is for everybody here. Or if there even is one.

I didn't realize people needed a "line" or that it needed to be set in stone. I mean my god, it is a video game, strictly for entertainment purposes. If it doesn't seem worth it to me(whatever that means from product to product) I won't buy it. But I definitely don't have to get all philosophical to make a purchasing choice, specially when it comes to something as insignificant as this.

[Merced256]

slimgrin wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I wonder where the line is for everybody here. Or if there even is one.

200 dollar game, no extra content, limited to 10 total installs, required internet connectivity to play. Actually that might not even do it.

Holy crap. You are devoted.

You have no idea

[P_k_r]

There used to be a time when you bought a game and got all the content. If you wanted more (of the same usually) you'd wait for an expansion, which was still a pretty good deal as it usually provided 1/4th of the original game, in terms of playtime. Then companies realised how genius DLC and pre-order schemes actually are. And since people generally don't have a problem being milked, this practice is now firmly rooted in the business. Even former paragons, such as BW have seen the advantage of this. Oh well, not my problem really - eventually companies will dig their own graves, as all this does is encourage piracy.

As a wise man once told me, while there are lambs, there will be butchers.

Modifié par P_k_r, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:29 .

[upsettingshorts]

P_k_r wrote...

There used to be a time when you bought a game and got all the content.

EA/Bioware is not a charity.

Consumers do not have a right to content.

Business models change, as a consumer it is your right to reject the new model and not purchase the software. 

[The Masked Rog]

P_k_r wrote...

There used to be a time when you bought a game and got all the content. If you wanted more (of the same usually) you'd wait for an expansion, which was still a pretty good deal as it usually provided 1/4th of the original game, in terms of playtime. Then companies realised how genius DLC and pre-order schemes actually are. And since people generally don't have a problem being milked, this practice is now firmly rooted in the business. Even former paragons, such as BW have seen the advantage of this. Oh well, not my problem really - eventually companies will dig their own graves, as all this does is encourage piracy.

As a wise man once told me, while there are lambs, there will be butchers.

DLCs are like mini expansions but highly overpriced. Therefore I as a customer made the desicion not to buy them. Apparently other people think it's worth it for them so they bought it. Don't see a problem here. BioWare sets prices they think people are willing to pay for the product. 

[FellowerOfOdin]

. Oh well, not my problem really - eventually companies will dig their own graves, as all this does is encourage piracy.  

Huh? It's the complete opposite. Bioware gives their customers MORE for the same price. If you pre-order, you are guaranteed to buy the game and to make you pre-order, you get bonus stuff - good bonus stuff. This is exactly how it should work: rather encourage people to buy the game then discouraging them from piracy.

I do not see the POINT of this discussion.

You do not want to pre-order the game because you lack info? => Do not pre-order!

You trust Bioware and like free stuff? => Pre-Order!

Modifié par FellowerOfOdin, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:34 .

[Bullets McDeath]

P_k_r wrote...

There used to be a time when you bought a game and got all the content. If you wanted more (of the same usually) you'd wait for an expansion, which was still a pretty good deal as it usually provided 1/4th of the original game, in terms of playtime. Then companies realised how genius DLC and pre-order schemes actually are. And since people generally don't have a problem being milked, this practice is now firmly rooted in the business. Even former paragons, such as BW have seen the advantage of this. Oh well, not my problem really - eventually companies will dig their own graves, as all this does is encourage piracy.

As a wise man once told me, while there are lambs, there will be butchers.

Bolded the important part. Ah, the good old days. When everything sucked just as bad or worse. Sorry, what?

Oh, yes, milkable customers (mmmmm). Well, if these forums have proven anything over the past few days it is that

1) PEOPLE F--KING HATE TO GET MILKED
2) A great deal of people view free bonus content available as a pre-order incentive as being "milked" (and the single greatest threat to America).

Even though they still have several months of previews left to look at.

But thanks for letting me know I am a stupid rube being milked every time I pay 5$ for a DLC I enjoyed.

[Meltemph]

There used to be a time when you bought a game and got all the content. If you wanted more (of the same usually) you'd wait for an expansion, which was still a pretty good deal as it usually provided 1/4th of the original game, in terms of playtime. Then companies realised how genius DLC and pre-order schemes actually are. And since people generally don't have a problem being milked, this practice is now firmly rooted in the business. Even former paragons, such as BW have seen the advantage of this. Oh well, not my problem really - eventually companies will dig their own graves, as all this does is encourage piracy.

Get off mah lawn! Grass is always greener, ect. I remember expansions too, and I thought most of them sucked. Also, if the way the industry deals with stuff now, leads people to an illegal act, I would say that is more of a problem with the person then the business. If a person likes the product but unwilling to pay the price to play it and is willing to steal it or enjoy the game w/o paying for it(whatever you wana call it), I would say that person is either spoiled or has an addiction they need to get fixed.

[Bullets McDeath]

slimgrin wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...

Jesus, I love it. Bioware gives sh!t away for free, and the boards burn for days and days with righteous indignation about... well, I'm not entirely sure what, to be honest. That things cost money? That DLC exists? Something about Fox News, too.

I wish there was a way to archive these threads when this storm has passed so they can stored somewhere no future civilization could ever possibly bear witness to them.

Now you have a potential hobby. Start archiving.

There's nothing righteous or indignant about debating the value of a marketing tactic. I've seen good arguments on both sides.

I tend not to dismiss people for critical thinking.

I can't say I've been witness to a great deal of critical thinking in any of these threads. I've seen plenty of fake statistics, emotional whinging and plain misinformed bullsh!t... and a few people using their critical thinking skills to tear those arguments to shreds... but that's about it.

[upsettingshorts]

The funny thing about the whole milk metaphor is that consumers aren't cows who are simply having funds squeezed out of them. They are in fact the people at the grocery store looking at the end result - the cartons of milk - and they are the ones deciding if that milk is worth their money.

If anyone is being milked in this clumsy metaphor its the creative talent who make the game by their bosses who intend to profit off of its sale.

... the notion of anyone milking David Gaider is profoundly disturbing, I'll give you that though.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:38 .

[bjdbwea]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

EA/Bioware is not a charity.

Consumers do not have a right to content.

Business models change, as a consumer it is your right to reject the new model and not purchase the software. 

You know what? Most people know that. This thread is not about lecturing people with self-evident trivialities, it's about a discussion about the scheme in question.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:37 .

[ErichHartmann]

P_k_r wrote... Oh well, not my problem really - eventually companies will dig their own graves, as all this does is encourage piracy.

Piracy has always been a problem for the industry. I don't speculate on motives other than people do it because they can.

[captain.subtle]

280 Million mark reached!!!!

[Merced256]

bjdbwea wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

EA/Bioware is not a charity.

Consumers do not have a right to content.

Business models change, as a consumer it is your right to reject the new model and not purchase the software. 

You know what? Most people know that. This thread is not about lecturing people with self-evident trivialities, it's about a discussion about the scheme in question.

Yes it is, we have people who paint themselves to be rivals to hawking giving us lectures; we should be appreciative of their time. After all they know they could be out curing cancer or developing a method of propulsion that would get us to other galaxies within the span of a human life time yet they decide to deride people on a video game forum.

Modifié par Merced256, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:45 .

[upsettingshorts]

If people knew that there would be very little to talk about.

Side A: I was likely going to purchase this game anyway. As such, the offer of incentives to pre-order it in advance represents a low-risk opportunity for me to get more value for my investment. I choose to pre-order.

Side B: I am hesitant about the quality of the game and would prefer to wait for reviews. The incentive offered is not enough to overcome my doubts and therefore the risk that the game will not live up to my expectations is too high. I choose not to pre-order.

Consequently this thread and the positive version of it - the "thanks" one - would both be very, very boring.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:41 .

[P_k_r]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

P_k_r wrote...

There used to be a time when you bought a game and got all the content.

EA/Bioware is not a charity.

Consumers do not have a right to content.

Business models change, as a consumer it is your right to reject the new model and not purchase the software. 

Exactly. As I said, I don't really care, seeing as I'll only buy the game in its standard edition, like I used to do in the old business model. Being old-fashioned, I firmly reject any of the new ones.

My post was not rage/hate/whatever, it was an observation, just like yours. 

That said, this discussion is pretty much moot, people expect different things. Just because I want one thing, doesn't mean someone else will want it and vice versa. DLC and pre-ordering is fully optional, so some will get it, others won't. No big deal. That doesn't mean I can't state my preference towards the older model of handling things.

[upsettingshorts]

Merced256 wrote...
After all they know they could be out curing cancer or developing a method of propulsion that would get us to other galaxies within the spawn of a human life time yet they decide to deride people on a video game forum.

Heh, I just like to argue on forums for sport.  It's practice too, otherwise I'd have to argue with my friends over trivial things and I don't.  I save my actual, serious arguments for important stuff.  Thanks internet for helping me get prepared for those times!

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Too funny. So if EA tomorrow says that they'll charge double the price for the game, you'll defend that too. Without knowing whether it's worth that price, of course. You are certainly great customers.

Um, no.  I would describe that as something else the customer would have to evaluate.  Capitalism isn't a charity, it requires that customers and businesses alike make informed decisions.

EA/Bioware do not owe you anything.  We do not owe them anything.  The relationship does not work that way.

*shakes head* Shesh AngryPants, you really do come off like a shill half the time.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
*shakes head* Shesh AngryPants, you really do come off like a shill half the time.

You seriously read that as pro-EA/Bioware?  Capitalism doesn't work if customers or businesses don't act in their own interests.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:48 .

[Beerfish]

I would put more stock in some of these arguments if in the post the people being critical berated the video game industry for being just like any other consumer industry and yet they rarely if ever do.



I buy groceries, one of the stores I go to I have a consumer card for that store that gives me discounts and two for ones. The person who chooses not to sign up for the card does not get those deals.



The last time I bought a car the company I bought from had a 1 month 'deal' of a gas card with $300 on it and a few other free options. For one month only.



I went to a CD store and there was a buy 3 get the 4th for free deal.



Pretty well all consumerism is like this. Incentives to buy at a certain time or buy certain products.



Once again it all comes down to a persons definition as to what is included in the product and in the end the person selling the product determines that, not the consumer.