967 réponses à ce sujet

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It is logical to speculate that the Bonus Character is part of EA's "Project Ten Dollar" and it very well may be, but we won't know and it certainly isn't in their best interests to tell us until release.

I think its more than likely that this is exactly that. Only marketed as a "gift to loyal fans" Which is really somewhat intelligence insulting at this point.

[AlanC9]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
What difference does that make, it was announced 5 months before release and will only be available up until 2 months before the game ships. I would imagine its either already done, or they're damn sure it'll be on the disk or available for download day 1. 

Its shady marketing,

What do you mean by "shady" there? Usually I follow you even when I disagree, but I'm not sure what you're getting at. The deal is perfectly clear. You preorder and you get this character free, and if you don't then you don't.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:14 .

[upsettingshorts]

I'm trying to remember the last expansion pack I bought. Probably U-Boat Missions for Silent Hunter IV. Nope, Rise of the Godslayer, which had incredible content but wasn't enough to keep me in Conan for that long.

That's a sidetrack though.

By the way, kids, it would only be a scam if you paid for what was in the offer and didn't get it - not if they later offer it again.   I'd say there's absolutely no chance of you pre-ordering the game and not getting the game.  That would be a scam.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:15 .

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Never said I was entitled to anything. I think you completely missed the point I was trying to make. RTO wasn't worth the money, Witch Hunt most certainly wasn't worth the money especially the way it was marketed as getting "answers" when none were given, it would have been far nicer had we gotten a full fledged expansion pack that was fully fleshed out and didn't feel like a rush job ala Awakening is what I was getting at.

I didn't pay for the DLC because I didn't think they were worth it. But  it isn't wrong or shady of BioWare to offer those things. People decide whether a product is worth it or not. This is completely off topic since we are discussing the Signature edition offer here, though.

[Bruno Hslaw]

Saibh wrote...

Bruno Hslaw wrote...

It all boils down to the fact they are scared at BW that we will not buy this possibly crappy version of DA when we find out how bad it is.

That is the only reason they make it a case of preorder now and buy it to see what its like rather than make it only exclusive to a new purchase. If this was a bonus for buying new they would not need to use the preorder scam to make you buy a game blind. They get the same cash if you buy it a week after release so why else use this shifty trick. Are we not a loyal cash paying fan a week later??

Simply put they are worried a week later you may not buy at all. That in itself should worry potential buyers. But if folk want to be fleeced good on them. They obviously need to throw their money away.

NOW how is my money later??? Simple it aint therefore there motive is to scam people into buying a pig in a poke.

I can cancel my preorder right up until it ships to me. Meaning, if reviews start pouring in with mediocre or terrible scores, I don't have to pay.

The point is real gamers will not review the game until launch you will get BW opinion (obviously Biased) and game mags (again biased) Not real world reviews. By that time you are unable to cancel.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...

[quote]CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Not that. I asked a link that proved that the DLC is completed. Not that you didn't know that.[/quote]

What difference does that make, it was announced 5 months before release and will only be available up until 2 months before the game ships. I would imagine its either already done, or they're damn sure it'll be on the disk or available for download day 1. 

Its shady marketing, [/quote]

What do you mean by "shady" there? Usually I follow you even when I disagree, but I'm not sure what you're getting at. The deal is perfectly clear. You preorder and you get this character free, and if you don't then you don't.

[/quote]

Shady in the sense they're really just trying to boost presale numbers while passing it off as a "gift to loyal fans"

[nightcobra]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It is logical to speculate that the Bonus Character is part of EA's "Project Ten Dollar" and it very well may be, but we won't know and it certainly isn't in their best interests to tell us until release.

I think its more than likely that this is exactly that. Only marketed as a "gift to loyal fans" Which is really somewhat intelligence insulting at this point.

i'm already expecting the bonus character to be handled like shale so no surprise there. i'm preordering mainly for the soundtrack, the items and characters are the bonus to that at least for me.

[Meltemph]

Would anyone feel like a chump if they pre-ordered and the game was complete crap? Or would they say 'well thats just how it goes in a free market'.

I don't think most people, at least here, just pre-order because it's fun. It would make sense to assume the people who pre-order now, trust Bioware to make a quality game. If it ends up crap then that would just be a bridge Bioware burns. Also, the whole point of pre-ordering, typically, is to ensure yourself a copy, and if pre-ordering the copy comes with benefits all the more reason to do so. Again, though, people wouldn't pre-order unless they had expectations that they think the game will meet, so until Bioware screws the pooch, why assume the worst?

I know the odds of this happening with a Bioware game are slim, but it does happen with other companies, hence the criticism of pre-ordering in general.

IF you don't have enough trust in a producer for a good you think you will like, then don't pre-order? I'm not seeing the dilemma, honestly.

[Merced256]

Saibh wrote...

Bruno Hslaw wrote...

It all boils down to the fact they are scared at BW that we will not buy this possibly crappy version of DA when we find out how bad it is.

That is the only reason they make it a case of preorder now and buy it to see what its like rather than make it only exclusive to a new purchase. If this was a bonus for buying new they would not need to use the preorder scam to make you buy a game blind. They get the same cash if you buy it a week after release so why else use this shifty trick. Are we not a loyal cash paying fan a week later??

Simply put they are worried a week later you may not buy at all. That in itself should worry potential buyers. But if folk want to be fleeced good on them. They obviously need to throw their money away.

NOW how is my money later??? Simple it aint therefore there motive is to scam people into buying a pig in a poke.

I can cancel my preorder right up until it ships to me. Meaning, if reviews start pouring in with mediocre or terrible scores, I don't have to pay.

While ignoring the fact that many issues with gameplay are never even presented within those articles thus leaving it up the community to raise issue as they often do post release. But you don't want that feedback, so good for you.

[The Masked Rog]

[quote]CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...

[quote]CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Not that. I asked a link that proved that the DLC is completed. Not that you didn't know that.[/quote]

What difference does that make, it was announced 5 months before release and will only be available up until 2 months before the game ships. I would imagine its either already done, or they're damn sure it'll be on the disk or available for download day 1. 

Its shady marketing, [/quote]

What do you mean by "shady" there? Usually I follow you even when I disagree, but I'm not sure what you're getting at. The deal is perfectly clear. You preorder and you get this character free, and if you don't then you don't.

[/quote]

Shady in the sense they're really just trying to boost presale numbers while passing it off as a "gift to loyal fans"

[/quote]
But of course they are trying to boost pre sale numbers. It's called marketing. If they said "We want you t preorder and thus we are offering you extra content" they'd loose some preorders there. Just like they would if they advertised the games saying that they want us to buy it so they can take our money. That's what they want. Money. They wrap their offers in catchy phrases to get us to buy. Be it "BGII spiritual successor", "fight like a spartan, think like a general" or "gift to loyal fans".

[AlanC9]

Did anyone actually ever show that game mags are biased in favor of big new games? I've heard this often, most recently about ME2, but when you look at the user reviews for that you find that ME2 did about as much better than ME1 did among the user community as it did among "professionals." (Though IIRC there was one outlier user site where ME2 did worse, but on the professional side we've got the NYT review as an outlier too.)

[upsettingshorts]

Merced256 wrote...
While ignoring the fact that many issues with gameplay are never even presented within those articles thus leaving it up the community to raise issue as they often do post release. But you don't want that feedback, so good for you.

It's just risk versus reward, man.  There's nothing sinister or idiotic - depending on which perspective we're discussing - about it. 

I'm freely admitting that pre-ordering a game product, any game product, in advance of reviews is definitely riksier than waiting for as much feedback as possible.

However, the idea though that someone could argue, "Based on my previous experiences with this company I view the risk as acceptable" Isn't even remotely absurd.

The pre-order incentive exists to mitigate that risk, doesn't mean you have to take it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:23 .

[AlanC9]

The Masked Rog wrote...
But of course they are trying to boost pre sale numbers. It's called marketing. If they said "We want you t preorder and thus we are offering you extra content" they'd loose some preorders there. Just like they would if they advertised the games saying that they want us to buy it so they can take our money. That's what they want. Money. They wrap their offers in catchy phrases to get us to buy. Be it "BGII spiritual successor", "fight like a spartan, think like a general" or "gift to loyal fans".

So if this is "shady" marketing, then all marketing is shady?

[Saibh]

Bruno Hslaw wrote...

The point is real gamers will not review the game until launch you will get BW opinion (obviously Biased) and game mags (again biased) Not real world reviews. By that time you are unable to cancel.

All of it is a conspiracy. Right down to professional reviews. EA bought all of them off.

I'll say it again, loyalty is characterized by faith. Not even blind faith, either. Mine is backed up with a decade of solid, mostly excellent, games from the company and the power to cancel my preorder.

I think Shorts said this well (eh...right?): buying BioWare games after all of the reviews are out and your friends give it the thumbs up makes you a consistent customer, not a loyal one.

I would have preordered anyway--now they're giving me stuff for free. More than my money's worth. For the fifth time:

This is a reward for people who preorder, not a punishment for those who do not. If you choose to wait, you are getting exactly your money's worth. No more, no less. But they're not going to reward you for being like every other buyer and waiting on it. You are not wrong to wait. But it is your choice. 

EDIT: Personally, I don't give a damn whatever nefarious evil scheme they have behind it. So long as the Signature Edition doesn't come with a mindcontrol beam when I crack it open, I'm still getting free stuff, yay! And they get money in their coffers.

Modifié par Saibh, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:24 .

[Merced256]

AlanC9 wrote...

Did anyone actually ever show that game mags are biased in favor of big new games? I've heard this often, most recently about ME2, but when you look at the user reviews for that you find that ME2 did about as much better than ME1 did among the user community as it did among "professionals." (Though IIRC there was one outlier user site where ME2 did worse, but on the professional side we've got the NYT review as an outlier too.)

Generally the reviews are more objective, but the previews which bioware either offers to them exclusively or the mag themselves shells out for are made in good faith that the game will presented in a fashion that furthers its appeal. Its not a stretch to assume a similar thing takes place with reviews, especially if that magazine was given the chance for a preview. I can't recall a game pcgamer previewed that got a sub 85 in the review.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

AlanC9 wrote...

Did anyone actually ever show that game mags are biased in favor of big new games? I've heard this often, most recently about ME2, but when you look at the user reviews for that you find that ME2 did about as much better than ME1 did among the user community as it did among "professionals." (Though IIRC there was one outlier user site where ME2 did worse, but on the professional side we've got the NYT review as an outlier too.)

Considering Game Informer is at least in part owned by gamestop, it wouldn't surprise me. Though not even they rate everything high, usually just the big titles, heck they gave SCII a 10 even though its just a graphical retread of a 10 year old game.

[Meltemph]

Shady in the sense they're really just trying to boost presale numbers while passing it off as a "gift to loyal fans"


But of course they are trying to boost pre sale numbers. It's called marketing. If they said "We want you t preorder and thus we are offering you extra content" they'd loose some preorders there. Just like they would if they advertised the games saying that they want us to buy it so they can take our money. That's what they want. Money. They wrap their offers in catchy phrases to get us to buy. Be it "BGII spiritual successor", "fight like a spartan, think like a general" or "gift to loyal fans".

Why are you making it more complicated then it is? They are offering a deal with a pre-order, however much you agree with the marketing aspect is rather pointless. You either like the deal they are offering and you take the offer OR you don't take the offer and wait and either buy the product at your own time or you don't.

Dragon Age II announces the Dragon Age II Signature Edition. Pre-order Dragon Age II before January 11, 2011 and receive an automatic upgrade to the BioWare Signature Edition — a special, collector’s edition version of the game that contains loads of additional content, exclusives, and other perks. Pre-order now!

I'm not seeing the "gift to loyal fans". It essentially is saying, pre-order by January 11th and you get this for this price. So what is this "shady marketing" you are talking about?

Modifié par Meltemph, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:28 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Priestly made that remark yesterday fyi.

[errant_knight]

slimgrin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...


So if this is "shady" marketing, then all marketing is shady?

Heh, that just may be true.

This looks like normal marketing to me. It would oly be 'shady' if there was some kind of bait and switch tactic involved--say, the playable character turns out to be a nug. As it is, it's just incentive to preorder, which one may or may not find compelling.

[upsettingshorts]

Saibh wrote...

I think Shorts said this well (eh...right?): buying BioWare games after all of the reviews are out andyour friends give it the thumbs up makes you a consistent customer, nota loyal one.

Trust is definitely a major part of loyalty. But there's also a fetish around the idea of being a loyal customer, to the point that people like to broadly define the concept to include themselves - and any assertion that puts that into question is read like a personal attack.

Using the Bioware example, if I consider myself a loyal customer I will pre-order Bioware products. The first time I'm disappointed, I might give them a pass - because of all the games they've made that I loved. I might even pre-order one more time, based on the strength of previous games in their catalog, but if it turns out to be disappointing again then it will have been clear that the trust was misplaced and I could no longer justify either pre-ordering games or labeling myself as a loyal customer.

This is where my pro-Bioware bent comes in, I liked all of their recent offerings. I don't expect everyone shares my opinion, but as of yet I have no particular reason to doubt that I'll like DA:2. I could absolutely be wrong and that would absolutely shake my faith in the company's ability to deliver a product I enjoy.

And I don't think there's anything particularly odd about my approach.

Edit: What's the deal with inconsistent speed in these forums recognizing replies, edits, and other stuff?  It's irritating.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:31 .

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I think its more than likely that this is exactly that. Only marketed as a "gift to loyal fans" Which is really somewhat intelligence insulting at this point.

I would understand this PoV if for whatever reason there was a snowballs chance in hell this content could ever have been part of the retail version, but that's just not true.

It was always going to be DLC. Now it is free for the people that are willing to pay for future (i.e. currently unfinished) content on the promise from Bioware that the product will be of high quality.

I don't think the "loyal fans" line is insulting. We can talk about the general moral value of release date DLC, but IMO that is separate from a good offer to customers.

[Meltemph]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Priestly made that remark yesterday fyi.

Well then you either take him at his word or you think he is a liar?  I mean, seriously, why the drama? 

[AngryFrozenWater]

The Masked Rog wrote...

I don't see how offering a free product for people who preorder another is shady marketing. You are in no way entitled to get the extra character for free. It is their choice to offer it to you under certain circumstances.

Let me give you an example: Supposed I sell you a house. But you can only see pictures of that house. You won't be able to look inside. It's a special deal. It saves you 20%.You won't be able to get a refund if the house collapses or has any shortcomings after you get the key. That's part of the deal. Would you do it?