967 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Supposed I sell you a house. But you can only see pictures of that house. You won't be able to look inside. It's a special deal. It saves you 20%.You won't be able to get a refund if the house collapses or has any shortcomings after you get the key. That's part of the deal. Would you do it?

How many houses have I bought from you before?

Have I been satisfied with the houses?

Have I felt like the previous houses have been worth the money I spent on them?

If the answers to those questions aren't satisfactory to me, then no.  If they are, then yes.  Provided I'm in the market for a house.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:32 .

[The Masked Rog]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

I don't see how offering a free product for people who preorder another is shady marketing. You are in no way entitled to get the extra character for free. It is their choice to offer it to you under certain circumstances.

Let me give you an example: Supposed I sell you a house. But you can only see pictures of that house. You won't be able to look inside. It's a special deal. It saves you 20%.You won't be able to get a refund if the house collapses or has any shortcomings after you get the key. That's part of the deal. Would you do it?

Probably not. I won't preorder DA2 either. Your point?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Meltemph wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Priestly made that remark yesterday fyi.

Well then you either take him at his word or you think he is a liar?  I mean, seriously, why the drama? 

What drama? Stating that I hate the new industry push for DLC? Sorry for having an opinion.

[errant_knight]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I think Shorts said this well
(eh...right?): buying BioWare games after all of the reviews are out and
your friends give it the thumbs up makes you a consistent customer, not
a loyal one.

Trust is definitely a major part of loyalty. But there's also a fetish around the idea of being a loyal customer, to the point that people like to broadly define the concept to include themselves - and any assertion that puts that into question is read like a personal attack.

Using the Bioware example, if I consider myself a loyal customer I will pre-order Bioware products. The first time I'm disappointed, I might give them a pass - because of all the games they've made that I loved. I might even pre-order one more time, based on the strength of previous games in their catalog, but if it turns out to be disappointing again then it will have been clear that the trust was misplaced and I could no longer justify either pre-ordering games or labeling myself as a loyal customer.

This is where my pro-Bioware bent comes in, I liked all of their recent offerings. I don't expect everyone shares my opinion, but as of yet I have no particular reason to doubt that I'll like DA:2. I could absolutely be wrong and that would absolutely shake my faith in the company's ability to deliver a product I enjoy.

And I don't think there's anything particularly odd about my approach.

Edit: What's the deal with inconsistent speed in these forums recognizing replies, edits, and other stuff?  It's irritating.

Yeah, lot of lag the last 2 days, very weird.

I can totally see why people who liked both Mass Effect 2 and DA:O would want to preorder. There's really no downside for those players. Why not get the free content?

I'm in a different boat, but that doesn't mean that I don't realize that there aren't players who have no concerns about this game. Lucky ducks.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

In Exile wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I think its more than likely that this is exactly that. Only marketed as a "gift to loyal fans" Which is really somewhat intelligence insulting at this point.

I would understand this PoV if for whatever reason there was a snowballs chance in hell this content could ever have been part of the retail version, but that's just not true.

It was always going to be DLC. Now it is free for the people that are willing to pay for future (i.e. currently unfinished) content on the promise from Bioware that the product will be of high quality.

I don't think the "loyal fans" line is insulting. We can talk about the general moral value of release date DLC, but IMO that is separate from a good offer to customers.

And you know that for certain how? Because Gaider said so? I think some of you guys forget they're owned by EA now, if a higher up at EA told them to cut content (and I'm not at all suggesting this is the case) in order to sell it later on, you can bet it would happen.

Sadly thats just the way things are progressing these days, weather we like it or not.

[Meltemph]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Priestly made that remark yesterday fyi.

Well then you either take him at his word or you think he is a liar?  I mean, seriously, why the drama? 

What drama? Stating that I hate the new industry push for DLC? Sorry for having an opinion.

Apology accepted, I'm touched you would think I deserve an apology though, I see our relationship is growing. 

But seriously, I think you took that a bit too personal.  I was remarking on how, whoever I responded to, was saying that was part of marketing and just trying to act like "it was for the faithful", and trick the customer.  I was not directing that at you, sorry(see we are growing).

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

I think we should try and understand where Angryfrozenwater is coming from. We're all consumers anyway.

[upsettingshorts]

Electronic Arts also dramatically increased Bioware's operating budget to the point that they can simultaneously develop (at least) three AAA titles: Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and SW:TOR.

<--- EA SHILL!

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

I think we should try and understand where Angryfrozenwater is coming from. We're all consumers anyway.

I think I do.

My issue with the house example is that our decisions as consumers aren't made in a vacuum.   My history with Bioware absolutely must inform on my decision whether or not to buy into their pre-order incentive offer.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:43 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Meltemph wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Priestly made that remark yesterday fyi.

Well then you either take him at his word or you think he is a liar?  I mean, seriously, why the drama? 

What drama? Stating that I hate the new industry push for DLC? Sorry for having an opinion.

Apology accepted, I'm touched you would think I deserve an apology though, I see our relationship is growing. 

But seriously, I think you took that a bit too personal.  I was remarking on how, whoever I responded to, was saying that was part of marketing and just trying to act like "it was for the faithful", and trick the customer.  I was not directing that at you, sorry(see we are growing).

Considering you quoted me sweetheart I figured it was directed at me. <_<

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Electronic Arts also dramatically increased Bioware's operating budget to the point that they can simultaneously develop (at least) three AAA titles: Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and SW:TOR.

<--- EA SHILL!

300 million on TOR so far, at least if EA Louse has accurate knowledge. Not that Bioware hasn't always had numerous projects in the works at the same time even before the buy out.

[Meltemph]

 

Considering you quoted me sweetheart I figured it was directed at me.

Ya, I sorta used your post to help explain my point.  You should know me by now, I'm too nice to throw direct insults.  

Modifié par Meltemph, 16 octobre 2010 - 06:44 .

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

And you know that for certain how? Because Gaider said so? I think some of you guys forget they're owned by EA now, if a higher up at EA told them to cut content (and I'm not at all suggesting this is the case) in order to sell it later on, you can bet it would happen.

For one, because I don't worship at the altar of Bioware like some. Seriously - they are a well-run business and they were a well-run business prior to being taken over by EA (just look at their collaboration with LucasArts).

It is not that I do not think this will happen. I might even be that this is exactly what did happen. I personally doubt it would happen because IMO I don't think EA is so hands on with the development of their game that they would actually sit down to play a partially finished state and then say, cut out x and sell it for 5.99$. More likely there is just a general directive for all subsidaries to develop some important content as for-sale DLC to improve the bottom line.

My point, however, is that this is irrelevant. Whatever the reason for the DLC, it will not be included retail.

Since that DLC is not included retail but is being offered to you for free if you pre-order, that pre-order is a solid offer for loyal customers.

That's different than the OP's point, which depends on whether or not you think that all release date content has to included for the game to be complete.

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Electronic Arts also dramatically increased Bioware's operating budget to the point that they can simultaneously develop (at least) three AAA titles: Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and SW:TOR.

<--- EA SHILL!

300 million on TOR so far, at least if EA Louse has accurate knowledge. Not that Bioware hasn't always had numerous projects in the works at the same time even before the buy out.

My gosh you really are inconsistent. You don't trust BioWare devs but you do trust some random guy on the internetz.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

300 million on TOR so far

This is off topic but Jesus, MMOs are such a risky damn business model with a really high failure rate

[AlanC9]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

However, the idea though that someone could argue, "Based on my previous experiences with this company I view the risk as acceptable" Isn't even remotely absurd.

The pre-order incentive exists to mitigate that risk, doesn't mean you have to take it.

Well, I'm not quite sure that getting more of something you dislike counts as mitigation. That only works for folks who are ambivalent about the game.

But yeah, it's sensible to buy without waiting for reviews depending on how the probabilities work for you. Since I've liked most everything that Bio's ever made, it would be irrational for me to waste a lot of time researching whether or not to buy their next product.

That's true for a lot of people. Video games are cheap. Unless your time isn't worth much you shouldn't waste much of it thinking about a single $50 purchase.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Electronic Arts also dramatically increased Bioware's operating budget to the point that they can simultaneously develop (at least) three AAA titles: Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and SW:TOR.

<--- EA SHILL!

300 million on TOR so far, at least if EA Louse has accurate knowledge. Not that Bioware hasn't always had numerous projects in the works at the same time even before the buy out.

My gosh you really are inconsistent. You don't trust BioWare devs but you do trust some random guy on the internetz.

Key word "IF"

[AngryFrozenWater]

The Masked Rog wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

I don't see how offering a free product for people who preorder another is shady marketing. You are in no way entitled to get the extra character for free. It is their choice to offer it to you under certain circumstances.

Let me give you an example: Supposed I sell you a house. But you can only see pictures of that house. You won't be able to look inside. It's a special deal. It saves you 20%.You won't be able to get a refund if the house collapses or has any shortcomings after you get the key. That's part of the deal. Would you do it?

Probably not. I won't preorder DA2 either. Your point?

My point? I consider both practices at least "unusual" to say the least. For the Signature Edition I need to make a decision two months before the release date. So the pictures of "that house" are very vague - meaning I don't have much info to base my decision on. I may be able to cancel it in the case of the game, but only before the actual release (which still costs me some money for the reservation).

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Electronic Arts also dramatically increased Bioware's operating budget to the point that they can simultaneously develop (at least) three AAA titles: Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and SW:TOR.

<--- EA SHILL!

300 million on TOR so far, at least if EA Louse has accurate knowledge. Not that Bioware hasn't always had numerous projects in the works at the same time even before the buy out.

My gosh you really are inconsistent. You don't trust BioWare devs but you do trust some random guy on the internetz.

Key word "IF"

Then why the god forbid someone uses a Bio Dev as a source "if" they are being honest?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The Masked Rog wrote...

Then why the god forbid someone uses a Bio Dev as a source "if" they are being honest?

That you need to even ask that proves you haven't been paying attention.

[AlanC9]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


And you know that for certain how? Because Gaider said so? I think some of you guys forget they're owned by EA now, if a higher up at EA told them to cut content (and I'm not at all suggesting this is the case) in order to sell it later on, you can bet it would happen.

Sadly thats just the way things are progressing these days, weather we like it or not.

What's the chance that there was no day 1 DLC included in the DA2 business plan?

Anyway, why are we discussing something that none of us thinks actually happened?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

AlanC9 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


And you know that for certain how? Because Gaider said so? I think some of you guys forget they're owned by EA now, if a higher up at EA told them to cut content (and I'm not at all suggesting this is the case) in order to sell it later on, you can bet it would happen.

Sadly thats just the way things are progressing these days, weather we like it or not.

What's the chance that there was no day 1 DLC included in the DA2 business plan?

Anyway, why are we discussing something that none of us thinks actually happened?

Slim and none?

[Meltemph]

For the Signature Edition I need to make a decision two months before the release date. So the pictures of "that house" are very vague - meaning I don't have much info to base my decision on. I may be able to cancel it in the case of the game, but only before the actual release (which still costs me some money for the reservation).

So then you are expecting a very specific product from Bioware before you buy. Not everyone is, and I don't see how it is unusual. Giving discounts for people who have trust in bioware is bad business? Even if you think the DLC should be in the game or not, the fact is they are giving a discount if you pre-order the game by January 11th... How is that bad? Or do you think that they should extend the discount till you, personally, are ready to make a purchasing decision?

I mean, I could understand if you were forced to make the purchase, but you are not. If you want what that content is w/o paying extra then you take the risk, if you are not willing to take the risk, then you pay more, if you don't pre-order by January 11th.  What is so bad about this?

Modifié par Meltemph, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:00 .

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

Then why the god forbid someone uses a Bio Dev as a source "if" they are being honest?

That you need to even ask that proves you haven't been paying attention.

That you say that proves that you are just trying to dodge the question.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

Then why the god forbid someone uses a Bio Dev as a source "if" they are being honest?

That you need to even ask that proves you haven't been paying attention.

That you say that proves that you are just trying to dodge the question.

Actually it was a comment on your reading comprehension of the last page or two

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Maybe that extra companion will be free for download when you buy the normal editions brand new? You just won't get those items?



I'm not going to pre-order, I don't think they are available for my country anyway. If I let this get to me, I'll be banging on, "so I'm missing out because of my nationality?" but I'm cool with it. Maybe some of you should be the same too.