967 réponses à ce sujet

[Esbatty]

DA2 is a car, if you put in a request to buy your car before its released you'll get a larger gas tank that will hold a couple more gallons of gas. If you don't put in an early order you'll get DA2 with the standard sized gas tank for the same money as those that preordered their car. You don't get a different engine, different wheels, or different amount of passengers it can hold, it'll even have same body and interior but those that order early can get a few more miles out every tank of gas.



I mean sure you can buy your car on release day or when the car mags do reviews of the vehicle's performance and safety features, but some people enjoyed the last model the company put out and will simply just preorder their new car.



Now is the person who bought the car on release day or later on getting a broken car because it holds 2 gallons of gas less than the limited edition verison, no. It runs. Its not going to fall apart without the extra gas. The additional travelling is simply a bonus.



I find this move very prudent in this harsh economic time. Bioware and EA need to make money but they also want to reward and encourage loyalty to their franchises. Many did not like the Cereberus Network deal but it comes with every damn new copy, here instead of encouraging JUST buying a new copy they want to encourage people to not only buy a new copy but PREORDER IT to ensure sales numbers for the first damn day of release.



There is nothing wrong with that. And the best part about it, it doesn't cost me a nickel more to get it plus they told us in Mid October that we had until Early Janurary to get the damn preorder in to get Signature Edition to save up our nickels between now and March.

[Therion942]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Therion942 wrote...

Ah yes. DLC, the act of purposely withholding content

Ah yes.  Begging the question, undoubtedly my favorite fallacy.

Ah yes, calling someone out on a logical fallacy when developers and publishers have been taking advantage of the average consumer since the midpoint of the 7th video game generation. Let's take a look at the list, shall we?

Mass Effect 2
Resident Evil 5
Bioshock 2
Assassin's Creed 2
Blazblue Continuum Shift
Burnout Paradise
Dragon Age: Origins
Red Dead Redemption
Modern Warfare 2

To think that the cycle would somehow end with Dragon Age 2 is naive. I'm all for DLC that's developed after release, but to sell a consumer a product, and then withhold a piece of that product merely to sell it back to him after the fact or use a piece of that product as an incentive to go all in on something he knows nothing about is ethically dubious at the very least.

[Dave of Canada]

Therion942 wrote...

Ah yes, calling someone out on a logical fallacy when developers and publishers have been taking advantage of the average consumer since the midpoint of the 7th video game generation. Let's take a look at the list, shall we?

Mass Effect 2
Resident Evil 5
Bioshock 2
Assassin's Creed 2
Blazblue Continuum Shift
Burnout Paradise
Dragon Age: Origins
Red Dead Redemption
Modern Warfare 2

Read up on Project 10 Dollar. It'll explain around half of those games, it's not withheld content. It's created for that specific purpose.

[Anarya]

Um, I only played 4 of the games on that list but I played them all without any DLC the first time through (except for the things that came with DAO) and they were all complete games so I'm not sure what your point is.

[Anarya]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Ok I'm sorry I haven't read all the posts, especially if my question has been answered, but this caught my eye on the profile newsfeed.

By any chance, does anyone here know the specifics of said companion exclusive to the DA2 Collector's Edition? I'm just curious.

No, we don't know anything about the companion other than that it is a party member and will be in the Signature Edition.

[nightcobra]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Ok I'm sorry I haven't read all the posts, especially if my question has been answered, but this caught my eye on the profile newsfeed.

By any chance, does anyone here know the specifics of said companion exclusive to the DA2 Collector's Edition? I'm just curious.

shale was also one of the features in DA:origins collector edition, and after some time every new regular copy came with shale.
i imagine the same will happen in DA2 as every new copy will come with 10$ worth of DLC

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 17 octobre 2010 - 07:45 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Therion942 wrote...

Ah yes, calling someone out on a logical fallacy when developers and publishers have been taking advantage of the average consumer since the midpoint of the 7th video game generation. Let's take a look at the list, shall we?

Mass Effect 2
Resident Evil 5
Bioshock 2
Assassin's Creed 2
Blazblue Continuum Shift
Burnout Paradise
Dragon Age: Origins
Red Dead Redemption
Modern Warfare 2

Read up on Project 10 Dollar. It'll explain around half of those games, it's not withheld content. It's created for that specific purpose.

Right, it's withheld to get you to prepay months in advanced. I have no doubt in my mind the "bonus character" is part of project 10 dollar. The items, prolly not. At any rate its just an excuse to justify pushing preorders. Which everyone is doing this days anyway. That doesn't mean one needs to like it, and praise it that EAWare is jumping aboard the pre order bonus item bandwagon.

[upsettingshorts]

Therion942 wrote...
Ah yes, calling someone out on a logical fallacy when developers and publishers have been taking advantage of the average consumer since the midpoint of the 7th video game generation. Let's take a look at the list, shall we?

I don't think you get my criticism.  I disagree with your premise, so citing more examples of how you think it applies isn't going to convince me. 

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Right, it's withheld to get you to prepay months in advanced. I have no doubt in my mind the "bonus character" is part of project 10 dollar.

Developed in addition to alongside does not equal withheld, no matter how many times critics will try to fit it like a square peg into a round hole.  Just because some consumers might believe that the "complete" game is all materials related to the game available at the time of release does not make that the case.

Withheld implies that it would have existed as part of the standalone game.  Developers have consistently said that this is not the case.  You are free to question them, but let's be clear - that means that the claim must be that they are lying to us.  To add anything else to the argument is window dressing unless you can cite internal development plans and paperwork which none of us has access to.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 octobre 2010 - 07:53 .

[Esbatty]

Right now my baby sister and her boyfriend are trying to hunt down the perfect place to preorder Fable III in order to get the best preorder items when they joint purchase the Limited Edition. You'd think they were making a "major purchase" but noooooooo its for a damn game with chickens.



Man I hope I get to stomp some chickens DA2. Shale shouldn't get all the fun.

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Right, it's withheld to get you to prepay months in advanced.

You're given a toy, this toy is fantastic and fun! If you purchased it before Christmas, it comes with an extra hat to put ontop of the toy. If you buy the toy after Christmas, you don't have the hat but you still get the toy. It's not like they removed the toy's head and said "BUY BEFORE CHRISTMAS OR YOU GET A HEADLESS DOLL".

[Esbatty]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Right, it's withheld to get you to prepay months in advanced.

You're given a toy, this toy is fantastic and fun! If you purchased it before Christmas, it comes with an extra hat to put ontop of the toy. If you buy the toy after Christmas, you don't have the hat but you still get the toy. It's not like they removed the toy's head and said "BUY BEFORE CHRISTMAS OR YOU GET A HEADLESS DOLL".

You have, as the internet says, pwned me, sir. Here is a coupon good for the service of one Mr. Phillip Laccio. Good day.

[upsettingshorts]

I also want to point out that the offer doesn't actually require pre-payment. It's a reservation.

The offer is: Reserve this product by Jan 11 and receive a bonus.

Obviously you may cancel your reservation at any time before release, and lose nothing. They are not asking you to pre-pay, which would call for you doing something like calling your credit card company and asking them to reverse the purchase, or something along those lines.

Dave of Canada wrote...
You're given a toy, this toy is fantastic and fun! If you purchased it before Christmas, it comes with an extra hat to put ontop of the toy. If you buy the toy after Christmas, you don't have the hat but you still get the toy. It's not like they removed the toy's head and said "BUY BEFORE CHRISTMAS OR YOU GET A HEADLESS DOLL".

Right, but the critics are operating under the misguided assumption that since the hat exists, the doll is not complete without the hat.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 octobre 2010 - 08:00 .

[code2501]

I consistently do what I feel is the right thing and buy 2 copies of games for my household (2 pc's), and I will be very pissed if they dont include these "bonuses" in every retail copy they sell.

Considering the pre-order offer is only available in select countries, I don't even have the choice to pre-order.

Modifié par code2501, 17 octobre 2010 - 08:06 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

I personally find no fault in giving extras to those that pre-order. That was done long before DLC became popular.  The only thing in the "Signature Edition" I quesiton is the chacter and mission.  I think it would not be reasonable to make the new character and mission available as DLC for everyone, just giving pre-orders it free as a bonus.  The extra weapons/armor can stay exclusive, because as I said on the more official post on this topic, there is still a few DA-O and ME2 items I dont have,like the Inferno Armor that I can't get, that's ok with me. Were I unable to obtain Zaeed in any way, that would be different.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Therion942 wrote...
Ah yes, calling someone out on a logical fallacy when developers and publishers have been taking advantage of the average consumer since the midpoint of the 7th video game generation. Let's take a look at the list, shall we?

I don't think you get my criticism.  I disagree with your premise, so citing more examples of how you think it applies isn't going to convince me. 

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Right, it's withheld to get you to prepay months in advanced. I have no doubt in my mind the "bonus character" is part of project 10 dollar.

Developed in addition to alongside does not equal withheld, no matter how many times critics will try to fit it like a square peg into a round hole.  Just because some consumers might believe that the "complete" game is all materials related to the game available at the time of release does not make that the case.

Withheld implies that it would have existed as part of the standalone game.  Developers have consistently said that this is not the case.  You are free to question them, but let's be clear - that means that the claim must be that they are lying to us.  To add anything else to the argument is window dressing unless you can cite internal development plans and paperwork which none of us has access to.

Hate to break it to ya AngryPants but I'm not as naive as you. Things like this are already planned in advanced and more often than not thats kept in mind during development. Its not like the DLC team just "happened" to finish an additional playable companion on a whim. 

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Hate to break it to ya AngryPants but I'm not as naive as you. Things like this are already planned in advanced and more often than not thats kept in mind during development. Its not like the DLC team just "happened" to finish an additional playable companion on a whim. 

Hate to break it to you CoS Sarah Jinstar but I'm much more dedicated to critical thinking than you.  Developed alongside, separately does not mean withheld.  To me being right is far less important than being diligent, but you seem to defend your preconceptions with single-minded zeal.

Just say, "I think Bioware is lying to us."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 octobre 2010 - 08:12 .

[Sir JK]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Hate to break it to ya AngryPants but I'm not as naive as you. Things like this are already planned in advanced and more often than not thats kept in mind during development. Its not like the DLC team just "happened" to finish an additional playable companion on a whim. 

Well of course they planned to make the content in advance. Probably during the budget meetings of the DLC team. Nothing happens unplanned in any business... or well.. not much. Wether they decided to use this particular character for marketing or not there is something we cannot know.
Regardless, had the DLC team not been created and given it's separate budget the character would not exist. It was  not taken from the game (it might have been salvaged though, but that means it still would have been cut if not for the DLC team). It is added to.

These DLC are not taking anything from anyone. They are adding to it.

[Therion942]

Dave of Canada wrote...

You're given a toy, this toy is fantastic and fun! If you purchased it before Christmas, it comes with an extra hat to put ontop of the toy. If you buy the toy after Christmas, you don't have the hat but you still get the toy. It's not like they removed the toy's head and said "BUY BEFORE CHRISTMAS OR YOU GET A HEADLESS DOLL".

No. You're given a toy. This toy looks complete. You sign a EULA that says this toy is yours to use in its entirety, but you find soon after that your toy has Kung-Fu grip. But you're not allowed to use the Kung-Fu grip until you pay the toymaking company to give you a key that unlocks the Kung-Fu grip, in DA2's case, Jimmy who reserved the toy 2 months prior got a key for Kung-Fu grip for free. This is the ugly truth of on disc DLC which is what most preorder bonuses are. It's not as bad as complete story DLC being on disc, but it's also not much better.

[Dave of Canada]

Therion942 wrote...

No. You're given a toy. This toy looks complete. You sign a EULA that says this toy is yours to use in its entirety, but you find soon after that your toy has Kung-Fu grip.

However, you're always allowed to return it. You've got around 4 months to change your mind.

But you're not allowed to use the Kung-Fu grip until you pay the toymaking company to give you a key that unlocks the Kung-Fu grip, in DA2's case, Jimmy who reserved the toy 2 months prior got a key for Kung-Fu grip for free. This is the ugly truth of on disc DLC which is what most preorder bonuses are. It's not as bad as complete story DLC being on disc, but it's also not much better.

It's not on disc DLC.

[Therion942]

Dave of Canada wrote...


It's not on disc DLC.

Oh. Really? Who said that, can I get a source at least? I'll gladly pack up my bat-toolbet in the batmobile and be on my way.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Hate to break it to ya AngryPants but I'm not as naive as you. Things like this are already planned in advanced and more often than not thats kept in mind during development. Its not like the DLC team just "happened" to finish an additional playable companion on a whim. 

Hate to break it to you CoS Sarah Jinstar but I'm much more dedicated to critical thinking than you.  Developed alongside, separately does not mean withheld.  To me being right is far less important than being diligent, but you seem to defend your preconceptions with single-minded zeal.

Just say, "I think Bioware is lying to us."

Either way its sematics, if the character and quests (gee sounds a bit like shale eh?) are done 5+ months til ship, put it on the disc. Rather than dangle it like a carrot to entice people to make a presale. I think we all know even though some don't want to admit it, this was all planned for Project 10 dollar all along and will more than likely be just like Shale eventually annouced as free with all new copies of the game.

The idea that Bioware is somehow throwing you a bone for being "loyal" though is pretty eye roll worthy.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
The idea that Bioware is somehow throwing you a bone for being "loyal" though is pretty eye roll worthy.

Not if you remember what loyality implies.  Considering that many of the critics of this move are claiming that this encourages "blind faith" I'd say it's actually totally reasonable to say that.

I'd argue that the faith isn't blind, but the fact is that it does require trust - and Bioware's bone throwing is intended to reward that trust. 

Doesn't mean it can't possibly turn out that the trust was misplaced and DA:2 turns out to be a disaster.  But that's how trust works.

[Sir JK]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
...if the character and quests (gee sounds a bit like shale eh?) are done 5+ months til ship, put it on the disc...

Again, deadlines. 5 months sounds a lot, but out of those 5 months 1 month is for reviews (game must be completely finished), 2-3 months testing (only bug fixing allowed) and 1+ month of polishing. Most likely content lock has already happened or happens any day now. In order to put the character on the disc all those have pushed, causing the entire game to be delayed.
Not to mention that putting it on the disc will cost money.

DLC is easier to test and doesn't have to be reviewed... the character might not be finished yet (but they know they will finish before release, so they announce it).

It isn't like packing a bag... it's far more complex and a lot more expensive.