967 réponses à ce sujet

[Jimmy Fury]

Bruno Hslaw wrote...
-stuff snipped for space and approrpriateness-

1: Bioware doesn't control retailers. It can suggest a retail price but it can't determine it. If retailers are screwing people in other countries then those people need to file formal complaints with the retailers and EA. EA can't force them to change either but it can be very persuassive.

2: Careful with the personal attacks, they'll get you banned. Especially a low blow like that one. bad form sir, bad form.

[AlanC9]

Bruno Hslaw wrote...
seeing as many game retailers in many countries have already started charging 20 usd more for this edition of DA2 that would mean we would get nothing free seeing as BW have said it is 20usd worth of content?? While other countries are not allowed to have it (obviously you are only worthy in the right country ) So F them apparently. How nice does this make BW/Mini EA.

Collector's editions always cost more than regular editions. Kind of the point of them, really.

What Bio has offered is an upgrade to the collector's edition for people who preorder the standard edition, not a price cut on the collector's edition. Anyone who preorders the collector's edition is just being foolish.

[Bruno Hslaw]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Bruno Hslaw wrote...
-stuff snipped for space and approrpriateness-

1: Bioware doesn't control retailers. It can suggest a retail price but it can't determine it. If retailers are screwing people in other countries then those people need to file formal complaints with the retailers and EA. EA can't force them to change either but it can be very persuassive.

2: Careful with the personal attacks, they'll get you banned. Especially a low blow like that one. bad form sir, bad form.

I think you will find that poster compared all of us Complainers of acting like their misbehaving child. That is them abusing all us . Plus if their child is indeed brought into the topic as an example of a badly behaved individual by the poster. I would say that was bad form calling their own child when it is a fact good children are taught by good parents etc . So if they bring it up is it not their bad ??

[Bruno Hslaw]

AlanC9 wrote...

Bruno Hslaw wrote...
seeing as many game retailers in many countries have already started charging 20 usd more for this edition of DA2 that would mean we would get nothing free seeing as BW have said it is 20usd worth of content?? While other countries are not allowed to have it (obviously you are only worthy in the right country ) So F them apparently. How nice does this make BW/Mini EA.

Collector's editions always cost more than regular editions. Kind of the point of them, really.

What Bio has offered is an upgrade to the collector's edition for people who preorder the standard edition, not a price cut on the collector's edition. Anyone who preorders the collector's edition is just being foolish.

Once again it is not the collectors edition I am talking about but the upgrade.

[Meltemph]

Well seeing as many game retailers in many countries have already started charging 20 usd more for this edition of DA2 that would mean we would get nothing free seeing as BW have said it is 20usd worth of content?? While other countries are not allowed to have it (obviously you are only worthy in the right country ) So F them apparently. How nice does this make BW/Mini EA.

So are you blaming EA/BW for a store setting their own prices from a good they got from a publisher? If so, that would be a problem with the store you are buying from, not the distributors fault.

[AlanC9]

Bruno Hslaw wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Bruno Hslaw wrote...
seeing as many game retailers in many countries have already started charging 20 usd more for this edition of DA2 that would mean we would get nothing free seeing as BW have said it is 20usd worth of content?? While other countries are not allowed to have it (obviously you are only worthy in the right country ) So F them apparently. How nice does this make BW/Mini EA.

Collector's editions always cost more than regular editions. Kind of the point of them, really.

What Bio has offered is an upgrade to the collector's edition for people who preorder the standard edition, not a price cut on the collector's edition. Anyone who preorders the collector's edition is just being foolish.

Once again it is not the collectors edition I am talking about but the upgrade.

Really? What on earth does the product description say? Not regular edition, not Signature Edition, but  upgrade from the regular edition to the Signature Edition? And they're charging for that upgrade? Link, please.

[Cigne]

AlanC9 wrote...

Bruno Hslaw wrote...
seeing as many game retailers in many countries have already started charging 20 usd more for this edition of DA2 that would mean we would get nothing free seeing as BW have said it is 20usd worth of content?? While other countries are not allowed to have it (obviously you are only worthy in the right country ) So F them apparently. How nice does this make BW/Mini EA.

Collector's editions always cost more than regular editions. Kind of the point of them, really.

What Bio has offered is an upgrade to the collector's edition for people who preorder the standard edition, not a price cut on the collector's edition. Anyone who preorders the collector's edition is just being foolish.

Well, I just preordered at Gamestop--total $56 (US, PC version, overnight shipping).

And on topic--I haven't seen anything verifying the npc promised as day one anything. Bioware may have the npc/missions planned for day one, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it become available after launch, and free to anyone who buys new.

The armory seems exclusive to the preorder.

[Kasces]

If the stores are amping up the price, that is the store agenda, not Bioware's. Regardless, I'm still pre-ordering this. There was never a doubt in my mind I was not going to buy the game so they still provided an incentive in my case.

[Dave of Canada]

Bruno Hslaw wrote...

I think you will find that poster compared all of us Complainers of acting like their misbehaving child. That is them abusing all us . Plus if their child is indeed brought into the topic as an example of a badly behaved individual by the poster. I would say that was bad form calling their own child when it is a fact good children are taught by good parents etc . So if they bring it up is it not their bad ??

And acting like a child, insulting them with personal attacks will prove them wrong?

[AlanC9]

Cigne wrote...

Well, I just preordered at Gamestop--total $56 (US, PC version, overnight shipping).

But what you ordered was the normal edition, right? You'll just get the Signature Edition instead. I was talking about someone who would click on something actually called a Signature Edition when preordering.

[upsettingshorts]

Dave of Canada wrote...
And acting like a child, insulting them with personal attacks will prove them wrong?

You'll be interested to hear what I learned in another thread!  Apparently, calling out people for having a bad is engaging in "high school debate team" like tactics.

Apparently enforcing common courtesy and encouraging civilized, adult discussion is an adolescent tactic.  You should just give up, I know I will be, those comments were so biting.  I am crushed, utterly.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 octobre 2010 - 10:51 .

[cristim]

flamesoul32 wrote...
Oddly enough I have no problem with this. It is a valid way to combat them losing money from used game sales. Most likely the new character and quests come with every new copy just like Shale did. For the record she was advertised with the Collectors Edition even though she came with the normal one.

I'm sorry, but they said that Shale was in all version of the game when they announced the CE. Not sometime after that. Also, the "bonus" content for the Signature Edition of DA2 is available only in some countries. And my country is not one of those. Either offer the same thing to every potential client or don't offer anything.

I'm suddenly curious of what they'll announce after 2011.01.11...

[Everwarden]

Dave of Canada wrote...

If the game comes with:
Two rogue companions.
Two mage companions.
Two warrior companions.

... and the DLC added a third to one of these, is it not simply a bonus? You're still getting the full game, the game won't be hollow without this companion's existence. Just like how not having Zaeed or Shale made ME2/Origins feel any less of a full game.

No. It isn't the class that matters, it's the character. I think you will seriously just contrive any reason to defend Bioware even if they're doing something stupid. And in this case, Bioware is doing something really, really stupid.

To reply to David Gaider's first post in this thread: Yes, in fact, I do feel entitled to any content for this game that was made and completed prior to the initial launch. That nickel and diming effort could have been used to make more actual content for the base game, and lately Bioware has been releasing underdeveloped products. Note that underdeveloped does not mean I think the content was bad, but that I felt it wasn't worth what I paid. Awakening and almost all of the DLC packs felt really, really short and unfinished. Bioware has stated that DA2 will be "longer than Awakening, shorter than DAO". That's a fairly large range.

If, as I fear, the game sits closer to Awakening than DAO in length, I don't think it is appropriate to put development time into pre-launch DLC. 

[Dave of Canada]

Everwarden wrote...

No. It isn't the class that matters, it's the character.

People are saying they are witholding content, the class example was just saying that if there's two of each class (as they mentioned there would be) then adding a third of one of these classes isn't witholding content but an addition of it.

I think you will seriously just contrive any reason to defend Bioware even if they're doing something stupid

I guess my own complaints mean nothing. /shrug

To reply to David Gaider's first post in this thread: Yes, in fact, I do feel entitled to any content for this game that was made and completed prior to the initial launch. That nickel and diming effort could have been used to make more actual content for the base game, and lately Bioware has been releasing underdeveloped products.

Unless the money is taken from the DLC funding.

[Everwarden]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Unless the money is taken from the DLC funding.

If the base games they are pushing out aren't long enough to satisfy a reasonable customer (How many people thought Awakening was worth the money and long enough to merit being called an expansion? Not many I've met) then Bioware needs to reevaluate their budget priorities. So I stand by my claim, DLC at launch is moronic (unless everyone gets it, like Shale, but then why even call it DLC?).

[Meltemph]

If the base games they are pushing out aren't long enough to satisfy a reasonable customer (How many people thought Awakening was worth the money and long enough to merit being called an expansion? Not many I've met) then Bioware needs to reevaluate their budget priorities. So I stand by my claim, DLC at launch is moronic (unless everyone gets it, like Shale, but then why even call it DLC?).

Ignoring what specific industry this is for a sec...

Are you arguing that a consumer should have the entitlement of deciding what someone created, in terms of how it is sold and how much you should pay for it and what should be included? So you honestly believe it should be entitled to you, because you don'l like that they are selling products a certain way?

You are essentially telling the creator of a something, how they should sell it, how it shouldn't be made, and how many additions they can make to the product and when... Quite presumptuous of you, specially when it is very much a luxury. Anything else you feel you are entitled to, simply because you demand it to be so?

Now you will probably think, "you would defend Bioware over anything", but I will just say, if I didn't think it was worth the price, I wouldn't buy it. You can be sure though, that even if I didn't like how it was being sold, I wouldn't be crying about how, I'm not buying it because I feel I deserve anything related to a certain product. I would just, you know, buy something else to fill that itch.

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 octobre 2010 - 12:19 .

[Krytheos]

Everwarden wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

If the game comes with:
Two rogue companions.
Two mage companions.
Two warrior companions.

... and the DLC added a third to one of these, is it not simply a bonus? You're still getting the full game, the game won't be hollow without this companion's existence. Just like how not having Zaeed or Shale made ME2/Origins feel any less of a full game.

No. It isn't the class that matters, it's the character. I think you will seriously just contrive any reason to defend Bioware even if they're doing something stupid. And in this case, Bioware is doing something really, really stupid.

To reply to David Gaider's first post in this thread: Yes, in fact, I do feel entitled to any content for this game that was made and completed prior to the initial launch. That nickel and diming effort could have been used to make more actual content for the base game, and lately Bioware has been releasing underdeveloped products. Note that underdeveloped does not mean I think the content was bad, but that I felt it wasn't worth what I paid. Awakening and almost all of the DLC packs felt really, really short and unfinished. Bioware has stated that DA2 will be "longer than Awakening, shorter than DAO". That's a fairly large range.

If, as I fear, the game sits closer to Awakening than DAO in length, I don't think it is appropriate to put development time into pre-launch DLC. 

DLC is optional. Characters are optional. If I may bring up several points from DA: O:

Sten could die.
Zevran could die.
Morrigan could leave or whatever variation you wish.
Oghren can get mad and leave. Not sure of death, but entirely possible.
Leliana could be left to die at Lothering if you never even step into the Refuge.
Alistair can leave permanently if you persue a certain pathway.
Wynne can die.

All of these deaths are permanent, as well. The end result is the same conclucion; the character companions are optional. The DLC is optional. You do not have to pay for it if you don't want to; you lose nothing, you gain nothing. It is the same as the original game; if you killed Zevran, you may think you lose a 'companion', but that's quite..'metagamey' I suppose. 

A better analogy is leaving Sten to die. You can leave him, and never bother with him. You lose nothing, you gain nothing, unless you really want to metagame the whole thing by getting the companions always. Zaeed was optional; Morinth was optional; Loghain was optional; noticing a trend here?

All characters are optional in some variation. You gain nothing, you lose nothing. Signature Edition has you paying for a Collector's Edition that comes with extra goodies that can only enhance the experience of the game itself. Does that mean you need to get it? No. You gain nothing, you lose nothing for not pre-ordering. Pre-ordering has incentives; it doesn't mean you have to get it. You are not entitled to it. You never were entitled to it. It is an optional, well, option, that is extra for those who often enjoy having this kind of purchase available. Collector's Editions are out there to maybe make some extra money; that is simple marketing strategy aimed towards consumers to get more money, by typically offering an incentive to do so. Some extra content, a new character, and armory.

Is it incentive enough to make it necessary? No. You decide that for yourselves if it is. If it is not, then do not pre-order. You gain nothing, you lose nothing. Those who do find themselves gaining something because they wanted to gain something. Is it significant? We'll have to see. Shayle is optional. Shayle is also killable. 

This is a simple fact. A fact some are failing to realize; that it is optional content developed outside of the main organization that works on the game itself. A studio separate to develop extra,content that would not have made it into the game otherwise. As Gaider said, it either goes as DLC, or it doesn't go in at all.

What does that mean, exactly?

This packaged content, produced and developed for entertainment, and recreational values, made for by a company that enjoys developing and making games for us, for the consumers, in a quality manner set precedently by their past, quality-filled titles, is not, nor has ever been, necessary, or does it entitle anyone to anything in absolutely any manner whatsoever. No one is entitled to something that is developed separateley as bonus, cool or enriching the experience of a game; no one ever has.

Bethesda makes DLC. Do they need to? No. They do not. They do, but they do not need to; they can make it and sell it and profit off of it, but you are not entitled to it. If something is developed for sale as bonus DLC content for consumers who pre-order the game, you are still not entitled to it. DLC is a privilege, something we can enjoy on the side of a game, whether quality or not, whether the DLC's quality is in question or not. We are entitled to absolutely nothing. As consumers, we choose to buy what we choose to buy; that is our right. But we do not have the automatic right to say we are entitled to such-and-such because of so-and-so reason.

If Blizzard packaged Starcraft II with bonus content on day one, developing it as an aside to a game, giving extra maps, or moddable toolsets, do you have a privilege with it? Yes. Are you entitled to the content on day one, making it come in the game itself and not tolted as bonus content, as toolsets are so lauded? No. Developers do not have to release that content at all.

If BioWare wished, they could simply cut the content altogether. But they are giving those us of who wish to continue purchasing their products, knowing the precedent set by them before as having quality products, an incentive to pre-order the game and get this nice, nifty little Sig. Edition, with bonus content. Those who want to wait are fine to do so; they are not gaining anything, they are not losing anything. It is their perogative; those who want to wait for reviews may do so as well. It is their right.

But they are not entitled to content they do not wish to take a risk on, by pre-ordering something they have doubts on; it is the same as any business. Take a risk, get some benefits, some drawbacks. Don't, take no risks, gain nothing, lose nothing. What will you lose by not pre-ordering? Nothing. What will you gain? Nothing.

If you risk pre-ordering, then there are perks and benefits, as well as cons; what if the game is crap-tier? What if there are so many bugs, Oblivion looks like Fallout 2 was at launch, with no patches? What if the story is crap, the acting is terrible, and the choices minimalistic and stupid? 

These are all hypothetical questions that are raised, but they are risks. Take risks, reap the benefits and failings you may sow; don't, and you lose nothing, nor gain nothing.

Simple philosophy, isn't it? This entire thing is pointless, because it is optional. You are not entitled to it. You never were. It is a simple illusion I often relate to as being the 'Biff' complex, where you feel you are entitled to something and earn something based on an existing, pre-conception that you just deserve it based on little actual, factual supporting arguments that say you are entitled to it, when there are massive arguments indicating otherwise.

In case any of ya'll are wondering, for those not aware, Biff = Back to the Future. Major antagonist. Now for a hopefully appropiate image...

[Sir JK]

Everwarden, as has been pointed out many times, the DLc character is made by a separate team, using a separate budget and a separate timetable. It is for all intents and purposes a separate product. It is not, and never was, part of the original DA2. The only thing we know of it is that it is finished enough t be announced (which might mean that they have finished writing it but not much more, compared to the game which can't be far away from content lock). If it hadn't been made as DLC it would not have been made at all.

It is as separate from the main game as an expansion pack (but this is much much less content).It is not taking resources from the main game any more than ME3 or TOR. The only members of the DA2 team that are involved will have finished their work on the main game.



To demand that it is put in is similar, but on a vastly different scale, to demand that awakening should have been included into DAO. Both are separate products made by different teams using separate budgets.



Now if you feel that preordering the game (and thus get the character included) is not worth it, that's fair. It is your right as a customer to decide that. If you want more time to choose, that's also fine. You have until january. If you wish to see what people think that's also fair, but the character will not be included in the price. Your choice to make.

[Jimmy Fury]

AlanC9 wrote...
But what you ordered was the normal edition, right? You'll just get the Signature Edition instead. I was talking about someone who would click on something actually called a Signature Edition when preordering.

1 thing to point out is that it's not really an upgrade anymore.  At least not through gamestop. The SE is the only version available at all. It replaced the original regular edition listings.
Anyone who preordered before the change will (i believe?) get an upgrade. But for now the SE is the only thing you can order.

cristim wrote...
I'm sorry, but they said that Shale was in all version of the game when they announced the CE. Not sometime after
that. Also, the "bonus" content for the Signature Edition of DA2 is available only in some countries. And my country is not one of those. Either offer the same thing to every potential client or don't offer anything.

Did you consider that there may be legal reasons why the content is not available in your country? Or that they might still be working on finding out if it will be available?
DAO had a Mature-or-equivilent rating which can be problematic in some countries. Since the game is several months away it is very likely that some areas are waiting for a closer-to-finalized product for rating purposes before they'll allow preorders.
And to my knowledge the SE itself is only available in some countries. So is it the bonus weapons, character, etc. that you can't get or the entire SE?
If it's the entire SE it might be that Bioware has to cut material for your country the way another publisher had to cut a portion of a certain military game for release in Russia and other countries...

Everwarden wrote...
(unless everyone gets it, like Shale, but then why even call it DLC?).

Because you have to download it....? That's what DLC means. Shale was DLC because it had to be downloaded and it had to be downloaded because it was going to be scrapped for space but was far to awesome to let go of...

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 18 octobre 2010 - 01:05 .

[SXOSXO]

The issue for me isn't that there's additional content not included with the game. The problem is the additional content is only available for those that pre-order the game, so buyers who are waiting for reviews before making a purchasing decision are completely removed from the opportunity of enjoying said content. Had you simply stated the DLC would be free for pre-orders, but available to purchase afterwards for those that still want it and didn't pre-order, then there wouldn't be such a major outcry.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Has it been confirmed that the character is exclusive to the preorder edition.

[Meltemph]

The problem is the additional content is only available for those that pre-order the game, so buyers who are waiting for reviews before making a purchasing decision are completely removed from the opportunity of enjoying said content.

So you don't like that they are offering this to people who will pre-order by January 11th, because you will/might miss out?  So you do you feel entitled to the deal/sale, whatever you wana call it?

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 octobre 2010 - 02:27 .

[Tiax Rules All]

If they WILL let you get it later on as a seperate d-load or something they aen't going to tell you until after they get as many people as they can to preorder it.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I would assume that as history goes that extra item and stuff crap would be the ones that you might miss out on.