967 réponses à ce sujet

[SXOSXO]

Meltemph wrote...

The problem is the additional content is only available for those that pre-order the game, so buyers who are waiting for reviews before making a purchasing decision are completely removed from the opportunity of enjoying said content.

So you don't like that they are offering this to people who will pre-order by January 11th, because you will/might miss out?  So you do you feel entitled to the deal/sale, whatever you wana call it?

I feel that if I don't pre-order I should still have some way of attaining the content, even if I have to pay extra for it, like all the other post-release DLC. You make that sound unreasonable.

Modifié par SXOSXO, 18 octobre 2010 - 02:33 .

[Meltemph]

I feel that if I didn't pre-order I should still have some way of attaining the content, even if I have to pay extra for it, like all the other post-release DLC. You make that sound unreasonable.

Ah, I see what you are saying now, you just want the content to be available if you can't take advantage of the deal. Ya, I agree with that. I didnt like how, I think it was activision, made a deal with gamestop for the Juggernaut DLC for Ultimate Alliance 2, and if you didn't pre-order it, you couldn't get it, even if you were willing to pay.

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 octobre 2010 - 02:33 .

[Sir JK]

SXOSXO wrote...

The issue for me isn't that there's additional content not included with the game. The problem is the additional content is only available for those that pre-order the game, so buyers who are waiting for reviews before making a purchasing decision are completely removed from the opportunity of enjoying said content. Had you simply stated the DLC would be free for pre-orders, but available to purchase afterwards for those that still want it and didn't pre-order, then there wouldn't be such a major outcry.

Think of it this way. If everyone waited for reviews that would be an absolute fiscal disaster for Bioware. They need people to preorder it. They need to build up a demand prior to release. They simply need people to trust them and decide that the game is worth the money without testing it. In return, Bioware is willing to throw this in as a "Thank you" to such players and a incentive to those who are hesitating.
They present you with the choice of either waiting until you absolutely know for sure it's a game you can trust  to like or preordering it and recieve an extra piece of DLC included in the price.

Edit: Just like with Warden's keep/Shale I am quite convinced this character will become available at a price post-release.

Modifié par Sir JK, 18 octobre 2010 - 02:34 .

[SXOSXO]

Sir JK wrote...

SXOSXO wrote...

The issue for me isn't that there's additional content not included with the game. The problem is the additional content is only available for those that pre-order the game, so buyers who are waiting for reviews before making a purchasing decision are completely removed from the opportunity of enjoying said content. Had you simply stated the DLC would be free for pre-orders, but available to purchase afterwards for those that still want it and didn't pre-order, then there wouldn't be such a major outcry.

Think of it this way. If everyone waited for reviews that would be an absolute fiscal disaster for Bioware. They need people to preorder it. They need to build up a demand prior to release. They simply need people to trust them and decide that the game is worth the money without testing it. In return, Bioware is willing to throw this in as a "Thank you" to such players and a incentive to those who are hesitating.
They present you with the choice of either waiting until you absolutely know for sure it's a game you can trust  to like or preordering it and recieve an extra piece of DLC included in the price.

I understand the drive to attain pre-orders. I've dealt with EA people directly at conventions, and they are like fiends when it comes to pre-orders. That's all fine and dandy, but my problem isn't that they're offering an incentive to pre-orders, my problem is that this content isn't merely a weapon or something relatively insignificant, but rather a fully-voiced companion that is sure to have all kinds of content built around it ala Shale, and they are making it unavailable to all their other customers even if we are willing to shell out the extra quid for it like we would other DLC.

Why can't it be free for pre-orders, and then available for purchase for non pre-orders?

Modifié par SXOSXO, 18 octobre 2010 - 02:39 .

[Sir JK]

As I said in my edit. I am quite sure that like Shale/warden's keep the character will become available post-release (for a fee). It's just too early for them to announce that yet.

[Onyx Jaguar]

It would be a monumental waste of resources to have that character as a pre-order incentive only

[Meltemph]

Sir JK wrote...

As I said in my edit. I am quite sure that like Shale/warden's keep the character will become available post-release (for a fee). It's just too early for them to announce that yet.

I do understand his concern though.  There have been DLC, that was made with Gamestop in mind, where it is pre-order exclusive(Which I can only assume is for contract reasons).  I don't THINK they will do this and I agree I can't see them holding content back, specailly if you are willing to pay, but you can never be to safe.


I'm sure we will get more info though, I mean, 4 months till the cutoff date is a lot of time for information.

[Krytheos]

Meltemph wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

As I said in my edit. I am quite sure that like Shale/warden's keep the character will become available post-release (for a fee). It's just too early for them to announce that yet.

I do understand his concern though.  There have been DLC, that was made with Gamestop in mind, where it is pre-order exclusive(Which I can only assume is for contract reasons).  I don't THINK they will do this and I agree I can't see them holding content back, specailly if you are willing to pay, but you can never be to safe.


I'm sure we will get more info though, I mean, 4 months till the cutoff date is a lot of time for information.

I imagine it will be like Shale/Warden's Keep. Chances of getting the content later on down the line than if you pre-ordered for a fee will likely be done. I don't see them keeping this as extremely exclusive. It would be a silly move, at least if there's 20 bucks worth of add. content. Gamestop wouldn't withhold that amount of content from everyone; EA would surely object, though the armory I am unsure of. The armory I could maybe see as Gamestop exclusive, as it contains weapons -- and the exclusivity of weapons is fairly notorious -- but all the other stuff I can see going into the PSN and Live.

Pretty sure 20 bucks worth of add. content is a good bit on the DLC market, so we'll see how that works out. I also don't see the Character and mission being excluded, since that would be a bad deal already.

The armory though? I could see that as an exclusive. Past that? Unsure.

[Erode_The_Soul]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

It would be a monumental waste of resources to have that character as a pre-order incentive only

This is an important thing to note, in my opinion. I imagine that Bioware spent (or is currently spending) a considerable amount of time and money on this character. I don't think Bioware would throw all of those resources at a character whose availability would be limited exclusively to the next 3 months (give or take). I don't know if regular editions will get the character a la Shale in DAO, but I have very little doubt it'll pop up as DLC right around release day.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of DLC, and absolutely hate day 1 DLC. I know the developers say that this content wasn't meant to be part of the main game and was developed seperately, and I can accept that. But I still feel slighted when theres a mission right in front of me that I can't complete because I, apparently, didn't buy enough of the game to play it.

However, I do applaud Bioware for the thought behind this as a means to increase sales (and attempt to decrease piracy). It may not be the best option, but offering a reward (or incentive, etc) to the consumer for purchasing a legitamate copy of a game is so much better than punishing those who didn't purchase. I don't really like the idea of pre-order bonuses that have such impact on the main game, but I can at least see a reasoning behind it. Of course, that's just my reasoning...

[Everwarden]

Meltemph wrote...

Are you arguing that a consumer should have the entitlement of deciding what someone created, in terms of how it is sold and how much you should pay for it and what should be included? So you honestly believe it should be entitled to you, because you don'l like that they are selling products a certain way?

No, but good job giving that straw man a beating.

I didn't mean I was 'literally' entitled to the content, I'm just stating my expectations as the customer. If those expectations aren't met, I may or may not buy the game. Bioware can and will function however they want to, and if these gimmicks increase their revenue they will continue to use these tactics. I was just making clear that I find it distasteful to include completed content only for pre-order customers as a marketing tool. I don't care if they do that with weapons, armor, etc., but Bioware makes games that are driven by characters and dialogue. Leaving a character out of the game for those that didn't pre-order pisses me off.

It seems to me the game must not have them very confident if they feel the need to get people to buy the game before the reviews come out by withholding content.

Reminds me of those bad late night infomercials, "Call within the next 10 minutes and get not one, not two, but THREE "Best of the 80s" CDs for the low price of 19.99+S&H! But that's not all! You'll also get a limited edition bamboo butt-scratcher, but only if you act -now-!"

[AdamNW]

bjdbwea wrote...

Dear BioWare and EA,

after the disappointment with ME 2, I will not pre-order any of your games again in the foreseeable future (but I usually don't pre-order games anyway these days). LotSB was amazing, but it doesn't have restored my faith in your company yet. Especially not in DA 2 obviously, which seems to contain a lot of important changes that I don't like (and the DA DLCs were also far from being as good as LotSB). So I will have to wait and read some credible reviews of your games, most importantly reviews from people who paid for the game, not from people who were paid to play it. Of course I would still be willing to buy the game shortly after release, if your promises turn out to be true.

But do you want to know what announcements like this "signature edition" do? No, they do not increase the chance of me pre-ordering the game. Instead, this even decreases the chance of me buying the game when it's released. Because I will not accept to get some content - content that was ready and finished on release day, and content that's not just an armor or weapon, but actual gameplay content - cut out of my game, just because I maintain my right to wait and see before I buy a product. So even if the game is really good, I might just wait until the price has dropped enough to outweigh the costs to buy this cut content as a DLC. Or I might just wait for the inevitable "ultimate" edition (or however it'll be called) that finally contains the full game.

And by the way, I am curious about this whole strategy anyway. Surely, if the game is great, there is no need to give away so much content just for pre-ordering it. Surely people would immediately buy the game anyway. So why do you feel the need for such a strong incentive in the first place? This, also, does not make me more confident in the product I am supposed to pre-order.

I hope you don't feel the need to close this thread, because I think this issue goes beyond a particular game. The main question is, how much are the customers willing to accept until they say "enough"? I don't mind the armors and weapons as a bonus. Especially not if mods can easily add tons of that stuff to the game anyway. I also don't mind DLCs that are developed and sold after release. But cutting a whole companion out of the game, and then only giving that "for free" to people who agree to buy the cat in the bag, that goes too far. What's next, I wonder.

Sincerely,

An unimportant customer

Damn, this made me lose brain cells.

[Everwarden]

AdamNW wrote...

Damn, this made me lose brain cells.

If that's the best rebuttal you can muster, I doubt you had that many to begin with. No big loss.

[Daerog]

Everwarden wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Damn, this made me lose brain cells.

If that's the best rebuttal you can muster, I doubt you had that many to begin with. No big loss.

Probably considered it not worth his/her time. I do find the whole thing silly myself. Collector's Editions always have stuff to go with them and there have been preorder incentives before. This is no different.

[Jimmy Fury]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

It would be a monumental waste of resources to have that character as a pre-order incentive only

This is an important thing to note, in my opinion. I imagine that Bioware spent (or is currently spending) a considerable amount of time and money on this character. I don't think Bioware would throw all of those resources at a character whose availability would be limited exclusively to the next 3 months (give or take). I don't know if regular editions will get the character a la Shale in DAO, but I have very little doubt it'll pop up as DLC right around release day.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of DLC, and absolutely hate day 1 DLC. I know the developers say that this content wasn't meant to be part of the main game and was developed seperately, and I can accept that. But I still feel slighted when theres a mission right in front of me that I can't complete because I, apparently, didn't buy enough of the game to play it.

However, I do applaud Bioware for the thought behind this as a means to increase sales (and attempt to decrease piracy). It may not be the best option, but offering a reward (or incentive, etc) to the consumer for purchasing a legitamate copy of a game is so much better than punishing those who didn't purchase. I don't really like the idea of pre-order bonuses that have such impact on the main game, but I can at least see a reasoning behind it. Of course, that's just my reasoning...

So out of curiosity I double checked something and low and behold...

Nowhere does it say the bonus character and mission are exclusive to the SE.
It only says the Armory (3 weapons and 1 shield) is exclusive. Not the bonus character and mission...
So I now feel 100% comfortable assuming the DLC character is another Shale deal. You get it free if you buy the game new, preorder or not.
-typoedits wooo-

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:26 .

[TheMufflon]

Everwarden wrote...

If that's the best rebuttal you can muster, I doubt you had that many to begin with. No big loss.

That doesn't even make sense.

[Onyx Jaguar]

See EA doesn't want you to do research, they have all bases covered but they want you to think they are ****ing you just so they can get the guaranteed $$$ in order to meet revenue deadlines

[AdamNW]

Everwarden wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Damn, this made me lose brain cells.

If that's the best rebuttal you can muster, I doubt you had that many to begin with. No big loss.

Or rather, the original post was so moronic that there was nowhere to begin developing a rebuttal.

Also, what Mufflon said.

Modifié par AdamNW, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:31 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

TheMufflon wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

If that's the best rebuttal you can muster, I doubt you had that many to begin with. No big loss.

That doesn't even make sense.

One can only have so many rebuttals to write dependant on daily quotas

[Everwarden]

AdamNW wrote...

Or rather, the original post was so moronic that there was nowhere to begin developing a rebuttal.

That would only be true if the original post was devoid of coherent arguments. The original post was a fairly well constructed critique on DLC that is finished before the launch date of a game. 

[Kadi]

I dont think it occured to the OP that maybe, the bonus character and items, are rewards FOR preordering. plus the fact that they are relying on the gamers who bought DRO to buy it. as it was a success.which leads back to my point, of it being a reward as they said on the dragon age 2, signature edition FAQ



"8. This seems too good to be true, what's the catch?"



"No catch, we just want to reward our most loyal fans and present them with this special version as a "thank you" for being an early adopter."



for those too lzy http://dragonage.bio...da2/info/order/

the faq is to the left of the "pre order now" bit.

[Daerog]

Everwarden wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Or rather, the original post was so moronic that there was nowhere to begin developing a rebuttal.

That would only be true if the original post was devoid of coherent arguments. The original post was a fairly well constructed critique on DLC that is finished before the launch date of a game. 

The Character and DLC is probably not done yet.
The core dev team likely doesn't have time for it with how their schedule is, so it is up to the DLC team to bring it up to speed.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:41 .

[AdamNW]

Everwarden wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Or rather, the original post was so moronic that there was nowhere to begin developing a rebuttal.

That would only be true if the original post was devoid of coherent arguments. The original post was a fairly well constructed critique on DLC that is finished before the launch date of a game. 

Which only makes sense if the game isn't put on a disc, packaged, and shipped to stores until days before its release.

Besides, [INSERT BIOWARE DEV] already said that the stuff they are releasing wouldn't be in the game otherwise.  This is the only way we are going to get the content.

Modifié par AdamNW, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:43 .

[Morroian]

Everwarden wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Or rather, the original post was so moronic that there was nowhere to begin developing a rebuttal.

That would only be true if the original post was devoid of coherent arguments. The original post was a fairly well constructed critique on DLC that is finished before the launch date of a game. 

It was invalidated by referring to the content as cut content.

[Dave of Canada]

AdamNW wrote...

Besides, [INSERT BIOWARE DEV] already said that the stuff they are releasing wouldn't be in the game otherwise.  This is the only way we are going to get the content.

You took that WAY out of context. He was talking about how DLC is the only way we'd have Shale and such, he wasn't saying this character is signature edition only.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Nothing says "good thread" quite like the 29th page recapitulating the first.