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[Persephone]

bjdbwea wrote...

Johnson45 wrote...

Hang on... we have to preorder to get this companion now? in the signature edition thread when I was there people were under the impression it would be in the game as a voucher or whatever if you bought it new and not used.

As I said, in that case this thread would of course lose its validity. But if I read the following quote from Mr. Priestly, I can only assume that even the companion will indeed be exclusive to people who pre-order the game:

Chris Priestly wrote...

After January 11, 2011 people will still be able to buy Dragon Age 2, but it will be a standard copy without all the cool free stuff included in the Signature Edition.

Well, that's just great. After the dreadful DAO DLCs and the dragging bugfest that was Awakening, they are telling me that unless I pe-order this, I'll not get this content AT ALL? Like ever? I wanted to wait until a few reviews were in............

[FieryDove]

AlanC9 wrote...

They can if they want to, sure. I'm looking for a reason why they, like she says, SHOULD.

Yeah, I know you were just being snarky there. But the idiocy ratio in this thread is so high already that I feel obligated to take posts seriously even when they aren't serious.

I love snark, however I was curious and serious...my bad, should have went into detail.

DLC, love it or hate it has been around a long time. EA loves it, has for a very long time its not going anywhere.
I do think dlc to encourage new sales is a good idea in general. I just got a newsletter from gamestop which reminded me why they do it. Many games on the list selling used and the publishers/dev's see none of that money. It was all xbox/ps3/wii stuff, but lots of ea titles there.

I do not think marketing did such a favor as it has been presented in the current concerns topics. (mainly the extra companion + quest(s)) To say it's for pre-orders only would likely upset some that want to make an informed opinion on the product closer to release.

I do not think this content will be exclusive, I do think it will be for all new sales much like Shale was. I could be wrong, won't be the first time. I remember pre-ordering the CE of dao day-1 and shortly after shale was announced in all new copies. It was advertised on the CE page much like now, extra companion but only the items said exclusive.

The Masked Rog wrote...
Because BioWare decides what goes on disk and what is sold as DLC. And there's nothing wrong about it? If you don't want it don't buy it. If you think the game is incomplete don't buy it either!

You  really should try some nice herbal tea before you give yourself a heartattack.
/snark
I never said the game was incomplete -dlc or not.

[Daerog]

Persephone wrote...

Well, that's just great. After the dreadful DAO DLCs and the dragging bugfest that was Awakening, they are telling me that unless I pe-order this, I'll not get this content AT ALL? Like ever? I wanted to wait until a few reviews were in............

You are welcome to do as Dave of Canada has been suggesting. Ask for a preorder. Either go to one where you have to put $5 down or go to an online store, like Gamestop, where you do not have to pay for a preorder.

So, now you have a preorder, a SE reserved for you and you won't have to pay until the game ships or arrives at the store or whatever. Now you may access some reviews that come out before release, if you are displeased, cancel the preorder and not pay anything, if you are pleased, accept your preorder and receive the SE. If reviews do not come out before release, take the risk of accepting the SE or rejecting it. You are not harmed by pre-ordering now, you can cancel anytime before the game is shipped.

[Persephone]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Well, that's just great. After the dreadful DAO DLCs and the dragging bugfest that was Awakening, they are telling me that unless I pe-order this, I'll not get this content AT ALL? Like ever? I wanted to wait until a few reviews were in............

You are welcome to do as Dave of Canada has been suggesting. Ask for a preorder. Either go to one where you have to put $5 down or go to an online store, like Gamestop, where you do not have to pay for a preorder.

So, now you have a preorder, a SE reserved for you and you won't have to pay until the game ships or arrives at the store or whatever. Now you may access some reviews that come out before release, if you are displeased, cancel the preorder and not pay anything, if you are pleased, accept your preorder and receive the SE. If reviews do not come out before release, take the risk of accepting the SE or rejecting it. You are not harmed by pre-ordering now, you can cancel anytime before the game is shipped.

Ah. Great. I'll do that, then. I'll end up with the game anyway because........it's Bioware, right? 

[captain.subtle]

Let me put my inane opinion here: It is a generalization of course and bound to many fallacies as such.

More pre-orders mean a lot to a company. Why?

1) Profit: Value of games depreciates over time

2) Prestige: People trust us so much that they bought our game before trying it out.

3) Sale assurance: You have bought it. Period. Some of you may not have bought it after reading/seeing user reviews/ Metacritic scores / Actual gameplay footage etc.

under these circumstance would you NOT encourage people to buy it before being released? Whether you buy the argument or freebies or not, it only matters if you Bought the game or not. - Troika (Vampire) ; not sic.

BUT. This is NOT in my interest. There are various reasons (another generalization coming! Take Coveeeeeeeeeeeeer!):

1) It costs you more.
2) You may not like the game when you buy it (duh?)
3)They may release the signature thingy as DLC anyway later and it may even be cheaper becuase the game cost has gone down.

But people WILL still go for it because:

1) People are sheeple (possible reason)
2) People are in love with Bioware
3) People somehow know for sure that the signature thingy is unique and will not be sold later as a DLC
4) People just are Rich enough not to care
5) People don't care

Choose your pick.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 19 octobre 2010 - 07:08 .

[upsettingshorts]

captain.subtle wrote...
But people WILL still go for it because:

2) People are in love with Bioware
Choose your pick.

If you change that to "People are loyal to Bioware" then I'd pick that one.

[Daerog]

Or

6.)I'm preordering because it is the same price as a standard copy and I'll get DLC without having to pay for it later.

I usually preorder games anyway, and I have received the LE of Jade Empire (which did have an exclusive player model, which was also in the PC special edition, and weapon which I hear wasn't in the special edition), the LCE of ME, the CE of ME2, and the CE of DA:O. Why not the SE of DA2? I haven't been disappointed yet (except with the skill points being very limited in ME2, still more than JE).

So, 2 also works. However, it is more in line with "more for the same price, so why not, I'm getting it anyway."

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 19 octobre 2010 - 07:21 .

[captain.subtle]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Or

6.)I'm preordering because it is the same price as a standard copy and I'll get DLC without having to pay for it later.

I usually preorder games anyway, and I've gotten the LE of Jade Empire (which did have an exclusive player model and weapon), the LCE of ME, the CE of ME2, and the CE of DA:O. Why not the SE of DA2? I haven't been disappointed yet (except with the skill points being very limited in ME2, still more than JE).

So, 2 also works. However, it is more in line with "more for the same price, so why not, I'm getting it anyway."

Because as I said earlier, the price is going to depreciate. Even including the DLC. Its just the time scale that is a Problem.

[Daerog]

captain.subtle wrote...

Because as I said earlier, the price is going to depreciate. Even including the DLC. Its just the time scale that is a Problem.

You did. However, I did not see my reason reflected in the 5 options you listed for the people who will get it. It's not because I don't care, I'm not rich enough to not care, and my "love" of BioWare is not the leading factor. I'm cool with not getting BioWare things that I know I won't like. Such as Sonic and the Feastday stuff, all the clothing and gun dlcs for ME2, and darkspawn chronicles...

Edit: Nor do I think the DLC won't come out later. I think it will come out later as separate DLC. Perhaps none of it will remain exclusive in the future.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 19 octobre 2010 - 07:27 .

[captain.subtle]

Ok I will put it more plainly.

Nobody is here for charity. Nobody except those who are paying more for something that ought to cost much less (and WILL cost much less). Is everybody blind to the reason why it costs so less later? (Obviously Supply and demand). If the Consumer knows this, he CAN in fact bring the prices down to more reasonable level right from the start. But organized retailer takes for granted and uses Consumers naivete against him to make excessive profits.

EDIT:

What we need to understand that in a free marker economy, it is not our responsibility to protect interests of Bioware. it is our responsibility to protect our own interests. Bioware needs to look after its own. Video games are essentially like books. Once bought they stay bought and do not waste away with time. The reasons for buying them are Luxury. These two things in fact do not happen simultaneously a lot. That is Why new books are so costsly as compared to second hand Books even when they are in material nearly the same things. Uses don't really erode them off. The only thing that takes away their face value is the emotional bond that the user has with them. It can be seen that even Video games loose the emotional value with time IN RETAILER'S SHOP.

Thus theextra money you are paying is actually going into the emotional value of buying. This does not really fit well in a free market thought-form. Think about it.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 19 octobre 2010 - 07:40 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Hey guys, you know what you get if you pre-order?



Extra. Stuff.



It's that simple.

[Daerog]

captain.subtle wrote...

Ok I will put it more plainly.

Nobody is here for charity. Nobody except those who are paying more for something that ought to cost much less (and WILL cost much less). Is everybody blind to the reason why it costs so less later? (Obviously Supply and demand). If the Consumer knows this, he CAN in fact bring the prices down to more reasonable level right from the start. But organized retailer takes for granted and uses Consumers naivete against him to make excessive profits.

I know. I did get the Witcher Enhanced Edition or w/e for $20 (it was nice, but I don't think I'll be getting the sequel). All I said is that my reason was not stated. So I stated it. I usually preorder games that I'm looking forward to, and I'm preordering now and not later for the SE copy because "why not? I'm going to do it anyway."

If everyone just waited for a game to drop to $20, then I would assume that would hurt the profits of the video game industry and the developers, and I'm fine with supporting BioWare and keeping the demand up.

[captain.subtle]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Hey guys, you know what you get if you pre-order?

Extra. Stuff.

It's that simple.

its not THAT simple. Because the overall cost of that extra-stuff and the original stuff is going to go down.

[Daerog]

captain.subtle wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Hey guys, you know what you get if you pre-order?

Extra. Stuff.

It's that simple.

its not THAT simple. Because the overall cost of that extra-stuff and the original stuff is going to go down.

Or it'll all come out in a Special Edition (Jade Empire) or Ultimate Edition (DA:O).

[Bryy_Miller]

captain.subtle wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Hey guys, you know what you get if you pre-order?

Extra. Stuff.

It's that simple.

its not THAT simple. Because the overall cost of that extra-stuff and the original stuff is going to go down.

Then don't pre-order? I'm a little confused as to what the actual argument here is. That people will pre-order, and that is somehow bad that they are choosing to spend their money in that fashion?

They're already buying a video game. It's not like they aren't already buying a luxury item.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 19 octobre 2010 - 07:58 .

[ladydesire]

captain.subtle wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Hey guys, you know what you get if you pre-order?

Extra. Stuff.

It's that simple.

its not THAT simple. Because the overall cost of that extra-stuff and the original stuff is going to go down.

This is only true if there are multiple formats for distribution; ask any European PS3 owner who are stuck with not getting a lower price for the Awakening Expansion for DAO because there isn't a "retail" disc version in Europe.

[bjdbwea]

captain.subtle wrote...

What we need to understand that in a free marker economy, it is not our responsibility to protect interests of Bioware. it is our responsibility to protect our own interests.

Indeed. Customers of other products usually understand that, but many video gamers can only see their interest to play a particular game, preferably immediately. On the one hand, that's understandable, this is just for entertainment purposes after all. So what if they have to accept this and that disadvantage or restriction. On the other hand, this attitude has enabled the industry to take a lot of all these small steps already, and they will probably not stop unless the customers do change their own attitude.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 19 octobre 2010 - 11:37 .

[Bullets McDeath]

So, you pre-order, free stuff is yours, bang.



I'm sure the character will be available as it's own DLC, so if you're too unsure of the game to wanna pre-order, you can still have this character if you want it, for extra money. Now, that COULD seem like a rub, if you have a victim's mentality.



But really it is no different than having a "Collector's" edition instead of Signature, and charging more for it. If you're pissed that people who pre-order get the bonus, what you are essentially asking for as an alternative is a Collector's Edition, that costs more money, that any one can buy without a timelimit. While there's no such exact thing, a non-pre-order copy + party member DLC is basically the same thing.



As for the gear, well... you don't pre-order, you don't get pre-order bonus loot. This shouldn't shock anybody.



I have never seen so many people go to such great lengths to consider themselves screwed!

[crimzontearz]

You know....I love how people are using the "it was made with another budget" line of thought. I love it because it is very correct. If DLC packet is made with a budget that is NOT that of the main game then regardless of when it comes out it should me paid for separately and rightfully so.



What people seem to forget tho is that we do not always know that this is the case (schnozberry again if you have to be snarky do your homework first).

Take Shale. Shale was made with the game's budget....yes, the devs even admitted to the fact that he was to be part of the final game but he had to be cut because of time constraints and QA (yes they said so on the old forum go look it up) BUT because the pc version was delayed and DLC has a different quality assurance process shale was finished and made DLC. Still he was made with the game's budget but he was sold separately and free only to those who bought the game new. That is the beginning of a slippery slide. Furthermore when asked about Warden's keep and what budget it was made with the dev's answer was "none of your business".



You know I'd have understood if someone asked them "how nuch you make a year?" But people just wanted to know if they were being screwed. That kind of answer to such a question raises red flags. So even now we do not REALLY know what material was ripped from DA2 to make a quick buck and what is legitimate separate DLC and we probably never know because they do not want us to know.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

bjdbwea wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

What we need to understand that in a free marker economy, it is not our responsibility to protect interests of Bioware. it is our responsibility to protect our own interests.

Indeed. Customers of other products usually understand that, but many video gamers can only see their interest to play a particular game, preferably immediately. On the one hand, that's understandable, this is just for entertainment purposes after all. So what if they have to accept this and that disadvantage or restriction. On the other hand, this attitude has enabled the industry to take a lot of all these small steps already, and they will probably not stop unless the customers do change their own attitude.

Change their attitude to what exactly?  You have no argument.  Everything you're spinning into a festival of tears has already been disproved or refuted.  This thread should be locked, because there's no discussion left in it, only a few people with the fingers in their ears and their heads buried in the sand while then the rest of us try to pull you out of the sand.

[Bullets McDeath]

crimzontearz wrote...

You know....I love how people are using the "it was made with another budget" line of thought. I love it because it is very correct. If DLC packet is made with a budget that is NOT that of the main game then regardless of when it comes out it should me paid for separately and rightfully so.

What people seem to forget tho is that we do not always know that this is the case (schnozberry again if you have to be snarky do your homework first).
Take Shale. Shale was made with the game's budget....yes, the devs even admitted to the fact that he was to be part of the final game but he had to be cut because of time constraints and QA (yes they said so on the old forum go look it up) BUT because the pc version was delayed and DLC has a different quality assurance process shale was finished and made DLC. Still he was made with the game's budget but he was sold separately and free only to those who bought the game new. That is the beginning of a slippery slide. Furthermore when asked about Warden's keep and what budget it was made with the dev's answer was "none of your business".

You know I'd have understood if someone asked them "how nuch you make a year?" But people just wanted to know if they were being screwed. That kind of answer to such a question raises red flags. So even now we do not REALLY know what material was ripped from DA2 to make a quick buck and what is legitimate separate DLC and we probably never know because they do not want us to know.

That's a great conspiracy theory, and I'm all for watching companies closely so they don't get away with murder (and they'll try) but you're forgetting the DLC team didn't just fart on the Shale source code and call it a day. Their schedule and budget was devoted to taking what had been made with the game's budget and, y'know, making it work. If they hadn't spent the DLC budget on that, it wouldn't. So it should be free again... why, exactly?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

crimzontearz wrote...

You know....I love how people are using the "it was made with another budget" line of thought. I love it because it is very correct. If DLC packet is made with a budget that is NOT that of the main game then regardless of when it comes out it should me paid for separately and rightfully so.

What people seem to forget tho is that we do not always know that this is the case (schnozberry again if you have to be snarky do your homework first).
Take Shale. Shale was made with the game's budget....yes, the devs even admitted to the fact that he was to be part of the final game but he had to be cut because of time constraints and QA (yes they said so on the old forum go look it up) BUT because the pc version was delayed and DLC has a different quality assurance process shale was finished and made DLC. Still he was made with the game's budget but he was sold separately and free only to those who bought the game new. That is the beginning of a slippery slide. Furthermore when asked about Warden's keep and what budget it was made with the dev's answer was "none of your business".

You know I'd have understood if someone asked them "how nuch you make a year?" But people just wanted to know if they were being screwed. That kind of answer to such a question raises red flags. So even now we do not REALLY know what material was ripped from DA2 to make a quick buck and what is legitimate separate DLC and we probably never know because they do not want us to know.

Once Shale was cut, he stopped being part of the product you paid for.    Thus, getting Shale as DLC is fine.

Warden's Keep was intended to have interior sections you could wander around in after you cleaned it out, but they also ran out of time on that.  There was some element of mystery to that as well.  It almost seemed like there was confusion at BioWare regarding what they were doing with the interior of the Keep.  Still, it was cut from the original timeline and used later on.  So getting it as DLC is fine.


Next!  

[crimzontearz]

And once again people do not do their homework. The DLC team did not finish Shale. Shale was finished by the main game's team members who were not involved in de-bugging and quality assurance after feature-lockdown. Again the devs said so themselves just look it up. You...this is kinda useless since the Bioware worshippers will never EVER stop defending their deity but here's some food for thought.....look at the last or second to last street fighter released....take a good look because that's where we will end up since people do not care

[Sir JK]

The same people could have been on both teams mind, it's the budget that really matters if it's separate or not. If the former then it's a separate product, developed independently of the main game (even if salvaging cut content and made by the same people)

[Bullets McDeath]

crimzontearz wrote...

And once again people do not do their homework. The DLC team did not finish Shale. Shale was finished by the main game's team members who were not involved in de-bugging and quality assurance after feature-lockdown. Again the devs said so themselves just look it up. You...this is kinda useless since the Bioware worshippers will never EVER stop defending their deity but here's some food for thought.....look at the last or second to last street fighter released....take a good look because that's where we will end up since people do not care

If Bioware "finished" Shale, why did they need a DLC team to come in and make it work? You can also look up what the devs said about my statements. They stated Shale was bugged and did not work in the campaign.  Like most of the whiners, you are cherry-picking your facts and shooting from the emotional hip.

I'm about as far from a corporate apologist as you can get, this whinging is still mindless and for the most part baseless.