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[Tiax Rules All]

Stanley Woo wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...
I seriously think it would save Bioware a lot of headaches on this forum if they just kept everyone completely in the dark like every other developer. (not sarcasm)

But then everyone keeps pressing us to give them more information, more, More, MORE and we're accused of not interacting with the fans!

Nah you guys are great. I really do love the fact that you all are on the forums as much as you are. Too bad the only interaction that me and you have Stan are when you are banning me or locking my threads.

[aaniadyen]

Stanley Woo wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...
I seriously think it would save Bioware a lot of headaches on this forum if they just kept everyone completely in the dark like every other developer. (not sarcasm)

But then everyone keeps pressing us to give them more information, more, More, MORE and we're accused of not interacting with the fans!

It really is appreciated. All I'm trying to say is that you guys are on the forums talking with the fans all the time. No other developer that I know of even comes close to that kind of fan interaction. Then they repay you by constantly complaining. Perhaps if they're so ingrateful they don't deserve the contact either.

[Jimmy Fury]

crimzontearz wrote...

The problem shnoz is that content that should have just been free for everyone turned into paid dlc (even tho only for some and as warden's keep...well....it is none of our business according to the devs so we will never know)

What qualifies something as content that "should have just been free" instead of content that should be paid for? Is there a specific set of qualities that determine this? Can you define why it should be?

"Should" is a statement of neccesity. You should drink a certain amount of water every day to remain healthy. You should run a dishwasher at least once a week to keep it from getting gross. Bioware should compensate it's employees for their work as it is required to by law.
There is nothing that requires bioware to offer anything for free.

[bzombo]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

The problem shnoz is that content that should have just been free for everyone turned into paid dlc (even tho only for some and as warden's keep...well....it is none of our business according to the devs so we will never know)

What qualifies something as content that "should have just been free" instead of content that should be paid for? Is there a specific set of qualities that determine this? Can you define why it should be?

"Should" is a statement of neccesity. You should drink a certain amount of water every day to remain healthy. You should run a dishwasher at least once a week to keep it from getting gross. Bioware should compensate it's employees for their work as it is required to by law.
There is nothing that requires bioware to offer anything for free.

i think free market haters want everything for free.

[crimzontearz]

Stanley Woo wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

The problem shnoz is that content that should have just been free for everyone

Your opinion, your preference, your desire, but it has no bearing on reality or what we're doing/planning, regardless of how often you say it, how many people say, or how loudly. Even if a jillion people cpeak out against it, but enough people buy it that it makes sense to keep doing it, we'll keep doing it. Remember all the people who are not you who may disagree with you.

turned into paid dlc (even tho only for some and as warden's keep...well....it is none of our business according to the devs so we will never know)

Really, your choice as a gamer and consumer is to choose to buy it, or choose not to buy it. the "reasons" or "story" behind a product are really not your concern and have no bearing on the product being offered for sale. Whether something "turns into paid DLC" or "was DLC from the beginning" is immaterial to the finished product, as it spawns a lot of pointless arguments by gamers on what the developer "should have" or "could have" done. It still has no effect on your right and responsibility as a consumer to make informed purchasing decisions.

Yes Stanley. My opinion. And like other people's opinions may differ from mine so does my perception of what is important differ from yours. Indeed things like the story and reasons and restults of a piece of DLC are in my eyes what makes a company more respectable than another and more deserving of my attention as a customer (hence whi I will never EVER buy a street fighter product again and I will always second and third guess capcom).



Sure I can choose not to buy a game as a protest but the result remains that the market is applying mithridates' process to us little by little getting us used to this kind of behaviour.



Also my choice is kinda limited in this field, no one makes games like bioware so either I put up with it or I lose the best games on the market...that does not mean I have to like it.

[crimzontearz]

Jimmy the answer to your question is "budget". But it is pointless for me to continue, just read the rest of the thread

[Tiax Rules All]

crimzontearz wrote...
snip...

Sure I can choose not to buy a game as a protest but the result remains that the market is applying mithridates' process to us little by little getting us used to this kind of behaviour.

Also my choice is kinda limited in this field, no one makes games like bioware so either I put up with it or I lose the best games on the market...that does not mean I have to like it.

I agree with the process part. If its not there yet where we cant just go buy the complete finished version of a game off the shelf it will be there soon a just know it.

Little by little day one DLC and pre-order bonus characters creep in. (hypothetic, but probably, rant time) Dragon Age 4 will require you to purchase each party member online as sep downloads. (hey you don't want a zevran don't buy him) but if you only buy the retail game you will be soloing. 

[FellowerOfOdin]

People are still complaining about free stuff? Yeeesh!

[ladydesire]

Tiax Rules All wrote...


I agree with the process part. If its not there yet where we cant just go buy the complete finished version of a game off the shelf it will be there soon a just know it.

Who says you can't do this? You? How many times does it have to be repeated before it sinks in that if not for DLC, neither Shale nor this mystery companion would have been available at all.  Maybe you don't believe the guys at Bioware, but go listen to the last Dragon Age Podcast where Fernando Melo states that there is lots of content that they would like to see made available to the players, but they don't have the time or money to do it themselves. I'm willing to trust that they aren't talking out their arses when they tell us things like this.

[Morroian]

crimzontearz wrote...

Also my choice is kinda limited in this field, no one makes games like bioware so either I put up with it or I lose the best games on the market...that does not mean I have to like it.

So you like Bioware games and therefore should have no problem pre-ordering it and thus get the content free. So whats the problem?

[JrayM16]

Morroian wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Also my choice is kinda limited in this field, no one makes games like bioware so either I put up with it or I lose the best games on the market...that does not mean I have to like it.

So you like Bioware games and therefore should have no problem pre-ordering it and thus get the content free. So whats the problem?

QFT

[Bullets McDeath]

crimzontearz wrote...

The problem shnoz is that content that should have just been free for everyone turned into paid dlc (even tho only for some and as warden's keep...well....it is none of our business according to the devs so we will never know)

Source? I'd love a dev confirmation on that.

Also, I didn't realize it was you who decided what laboriously developed high end video game content companies are morally obligated to give their fans for free. That changes things considerably.

[Dave of Canada]

outlaworacle wrote...

Source? I'd love a dev confirmation on that.

I'd love to see one myself.

[Tiax Rules All]

ladydesire wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...


I agree with the process part. If its not there yet where we cant just go buy the complete finished version of a game off the shelf it will be there soon a just know it.

Who says you can't do this? You? How many times does it have to be repeated before it sinks in that if not for DLC, neither Shale nor this mystery companion would have been available at all.  Maybe you don't believe the guys at Bioware, but go listen to the last Dragon Age Podcast where Fernando Melo states that there is lots of content that they would like to see made available to the players, but they don't have the time or money to do it themselves. I'm willing to trust that they aren't talking out their arses when they tell us things like this.

What is the difference between a "the dlc chracter team" and say the "Varric team" 

They both work for the same company if the "dlc team" makes a character that is done way before game is complete then the only difference is the fact that they dont take the last step to incorporate it into the game. Instead leaving it out and coming up with some marketing for it (even if it is "freeish" now)

Thats what bugs me. Who cares who developed it. People who don't pre-order cant play it because of the label given to the team who developed it? Bioware pays both them all a they are all working on the same game.

[DragonRageGT]

Well, "informed purchasing decisions", when it comes to video games, IMHO, is translated as "DEMO".



Arcania - Gothic 4 has a demo coming out in 5 days. That's how all should do it. Pre-order is based on previous experience with a developer, to me, or in a viral marketing hype that may reach people with no concern about throwing money away. (I know people who played for a few hours something they had pre-ordered, hated it and just thrown it away).



But since I'm a sucker for Bioware's games, despite some disappointments with recent events, (like bugs that will never get fixed/patched, incompatibility between DLC's that a simple user mod can fix but a patch cannot - prolly because Devs won't fix it for the PC only and leave their main audience these days angry in jealousy!), I'm still prone to pre-order DA2, hopefully in a physical edition i/o of a digital one. (Stupid EA Store in my country has only the digital version and no word about releasing a real version like they did for DA:O).

[crimzontearz]

Forgive me for not quoting everyne but I'm on my smartphone.



People who want the source of the whole Shale controversy please look it up in the old forum.



To those who ask me about my problem with the preorder bonuses/day one dlc in relation to my penchant to love bioware games......it's a matter of principle. Just as it was for the issue with the ME1 patch and the me1 dlc fiasco and shale and warden's keep. Yes I played on the 360 so the lack of patching never affected me, yes I did not care much that the dlc promises about ME1 were empty since I LOVED ME1 and ME is still the serie I point out to my friends as being my alltime favorite, yes I bought DAO collector edition on day 1 and purchased warden's keep the same day even before installing DAO to my 360 all this because I love Bioware games....but the concept behind those issues, I do not have to like it

[Dave of Canada]

crimzontearz wrote...

People who want the source of the whole Shale controversy please look it up in the old forum.

You mean the DLC that was cut, done while the game was delayed (but already completed) and then given to everybody for free provided they purchased a new copy?

[Stanley Woo]

Tiax Rules All wrote...
What is the difference between a "the dlc chracter team" and say the "Varric team" 

They both work for the same company if the "dlc team" makes a character that is done way before game is complete then the only difference is the fact that they dont take the last step to incorporate it into the game. Instead leaving it out and coming up with some marketing for it (even if it is "freeish" now)

Thats what bugs me. Who cares who developed it. People who don't pre-order cant play it because of the label given to the team who developed it? Bioware pays both them all a they are all working on the same game.

The issue comes when incorporating everything into the main game. the main game has to all work together by a certain time so that everything can be locked down, tested nine ways from Sunday and upside down, then certified to meet specific technical requirements, before finally being approved and sent to manufacturing.

Though DLC might be worked on at the same time as the main game, it is usually at a different stage of development than the main game. That is, it is usually not complete, not voiced, not polished, or not fully tested by the time the main game has to be locked down. in the time between lockdown and manufacturing, any Day 1 DLC can be finished up and polished and tested, hopefully in time to really be accurately called "Day 1 DLC."

It doesn't always work out the way we want it to, but no one's perfect. That's why DLC is what it is and not just "completed content that's cut from the game and resold as DLC." And seriously, as Dave Gaider says, the option is usually "DLC or cut it" rather than "DLC or main game or cut it." The more you know...

[Jimmy Fury]

crimzontearz wrote...

Jimmy the answer to your question is "budget". But it is pointless for me to continue, just read the rest of the thread

That's no more an answer than "because I said so."

But I do agree that it's pointless for you to continue. You have no argument which is why you refuse to explain why anything should be free.

[Morroian]

crimzontearz wrote...

To those who ask me about my problem with the preorder bonuses/day one dlc in relation to my penchant to love bioware games......it's a matter of principle. Just as it was for the issue with the ME1 patch and the me1 dlc fiasco and shale and warden's keep. Yes I played on the 360 so the lack of patching never affected me, yes I did not care much that the dlc promises about ME1 were empty since I LOVED ME1 and ME is still the serie I point out to my friends as being my alltime favorite, yes I bought DAO collector edition on day 1 and purchased warden's keep the same day even before installing DAO to my 360 all this because I love Bioware games....but the concept behind those issues, I do not have to like it

With Day 1 DLC everyone would have to buy you have a point, with something we can get for free if we pre-order you don't.

Modifié par Morroian, 19 octobre 2010 - 11:04 .

[Rogue Unit]

This thread is pointless now. All arguments on why the DLC should be free have been defeated. This is just pointless rambling now.

[Stanley Woo]

Rogue Unit wrote...

This thread is pointless now. All arguments on why the DLC should be free have been defeated. This is just pointless rambling now.

Sure, but you could say that about any internet forum. Pointless rambling it might be, but the subject keeps coming up so it's better to have a thread where it can be discussed. Granted, it always comes down to "we built the darn thing, so we know what we're talking about," but that doesn't always satisfy everyone.

[AdamNW]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

So then why not just confirm that the other content will not be exclusive, if it's that simple?

Because it's entertaining watching people yell that the sky is falling.

I would buy every Bioware employee a car if this was their reasoning.

Every single one? Such as, if just one BioWare employee was pure of heart, no one would get a free car? I fear for the three people who work for BioWare who aren't evil. Or at least Chaotic Neutral.

The Bleeding Heart Paragons can go die in a fire.  After I give everyone cars I mean.

[AdamNW]

captain.subtle wrote...

1) It costs you more.

Uh, no it doesn't.

[AdamNW]

crimzontearz wrote...

it was...and they could not de-bug it because of time constraints....which were lifted when the game was delayed. Shale had to be a dlc because even tho they had time to finish it the final game (withouth shale) was already in feature lockdown so they decided to release it as day one dlc free to only some people.

Call it what you will...I call it shady

Your argument is null because Shale was a free DLC for everyone who bought the game new.