967 réponses à ce sujet

[bjdbwea]

AdamNW wrote...

Your argument is null because Shale was a free DLC for everyone who bought the game new.

Yes, but the same thing is apparently not true for the additional character in DA 2. Or maybe it will be, in either case it's a questionable scheme. Sure, BioWare or rather EA have the right to do these things, but guess what, we already know that, and we didn't even need an official confirmation for that. That doesn't mean that we have to like it, nor that we wouldn't have a right to say that we don't like it.

[Sir JK]

bjdbwea wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Your argument is null because Shale was a free DLC for everyone who bought the game new.

Yes, but the same thing is apparently not true for the additional character in DA 2. Or maybe it will be, in either case it's a questionable scheme. Sure, BioWare or rather EA have the right to do these things, but guess what, we already know that, and we didn't even need an official confirmation for that. That doesn't mean that we have to like it, nor that we wouldn't have a right to say that we don't like it.

Correct, you don't have to like it and you're in the right to express it.

But a lot of people who don't like it also makes a lot of very incorrect assumptions, expresses entitlement and expresses that Bioware/EA is immoral... simply because they are doing what just about any other business in the world do. Whis is what many of us who defend this object to.

The only question that really matters is: "Do you think the offer is worth it or do you not think it is worth it?" We have no rights beyond that question (okay.. not true... we have a right to a functioning game once we have bought it. And a right that Bioware keeps all promises they made to us). We don't deserve any of this extra content unless we take up the offer to get it. The business model is shared by a vast majority of the world and you can probably find equalient offers by just walking down a street with shops. Nothing has been taken from the main game. Possibly saved from being cut completely but that is nothing but a good thing, yes?
But no, you don't have to like it.

[MDarwin]

Stanley Woo wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
The problem shnoz is that content that should have just been free for everyone

Your opinion, your preference, your desire, but it has no bearing on reality or what we're doing/planning, regardless of how often you say it, how many people say, or how loudly. Even if a jillion people cpeak out against it, but enough people buy it that it makes sense to keep doing it, we'll keep doing it. Remember all the people who are not you who may disagree with you.

turned into paid dlc (even tho only for some and as warden's keep...well....it is none of our business according to the devs so we will never know)

Really, your choice as a gamer and consumer is to choose to buy it, or choose not to buy it. the "reasons" or "story" behind a product are really not your concern and have no bearing on the product being offered for sale. Whether something "turns into paid DLC" or "was DLC from the beginning" is immaterial to the finished product, as it spawns a lot of pointless arguments by gamers on what the developer "should have" or "could have" done. It still has no effect on your right and responsibility as a consumer to make informed purchasing decisions.

Fair enough! But my right is my wallet. And that right, you cant take away from me! :innocent:    

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well... I preordered DA:O the day before it was released and got all the bonuses... I'm just gonna do the same this time... No biggie.

[bjdbwea]

Sir JK wrote...

The business model is shared by a vast majority of the world and you can probably find equalient offers by just walking down a street with shops.

Actually, I don't think so. The main problem is that BioWare and EA seem to want to reward people for buying the cat in the bag, and they seem to go to great lengths for that. That you will not find in every other shop. Surely they are convinced of the quality of their product, so surely this shouldn't be necessary.

Sir JK wrote...

Nothing has been taken from the main game. Possibly saved from being cut completely but that is nothing but a good thing, yes?

If you buy that. Especially if this content would not be released sooner or later for regular (paid) download, the costs would still need to be covered somehow. Effectively, most likely by everyone who buys the game.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 20 octobre 2010 - 01:42 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

bjdbwea wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

The business model is shared by a vast majority of the world and you can probably find equalient offers by just walking down a street with shops.

Actually, I don't think so. The main problem is that BioWare and EA seem to want to reward people for buying the cat in the bag, and they seem to go to great lengths for that. That you will not find in every other shop. Surely they are convinced of the quality of their product, so surely this shouldn't be necessary.

Sir JK wrote...

Nothing has been taken from the main game. Possibly saved from being cut completely but that is nothing but a good thing, yes?

If you buy that. Especially if this content would not be released sooner or later for regular (paid) download, the costs would still need to be covered somehow. In effect, most likely by everyone who buys the game.

Actually many companies would judge the succes of an item (or at least use as a factor in the judgement), from the amount of pre-orders placed on said item. This will in turn help them judge just how much support they should give to the item, and if it is worth developing further. So trying to get as many people as possible to pre-order is not a bad thing.

Just because they want people to pre-order does not mean tehre is any doubt about their product. Just that they got an interest in seeing just how big an interest the consumers got in their product. They then try to sweeten the deal and get us to pre-order by giving us more content. Otherwise why would anyone bother pre-ordering? When did you last experience a game being sold-out on release date (collecter's editions not counting)?

[bjdbwea]

Why would anyone bother pre-ordering? Because they are loyal fans and early adopters and convinced that BioWare will not disappoint them. At least that's what I gathered from this thread. So why are they opposed to the idea of the content being included with each new game, that's the question. They wouldn't lose anything by it.

But anyway, I think everything on this matter has been said, and we're just repeating the same arguments. I for one will certainly not pre-order the game, many others certainly will, and later the sales numbers will tell a story.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 20 octobre 2010 - 10:48 .

[Bryy_Miller]

bjdbwea wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

Nothing has been taken from the main game. Possibly saved from being cut completely but that is nothing but a good thing, yes?

If you buy that. 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand now we get down to the real topic, which is "BioWare is evil".

[Onyx Jaguar]

Cutting content that wouldn't be finished by the gold date is something that isn't new, but being able to sell/include it back by ways of DLC is relatively new. Looking at ME 2 releases it almost seems like the cut content in that wasn't designed with the same mindset and that it was most likely finished by a different team or on a different time table.

[RyuAzai]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

This thread is pointless now. All arguments on why the DLC should be free have been defeated. This is just pointless rambling now.

Sure, but you could say that about any internet forum. Pointless rambling it might be, but the subject keeps coming up so it's better to have a thread where it can be discussed. Granted, it always comes down to "we built the darn thing, so we know what we're talking about," but that doesn't always satisfy everyone.

I think why a lot of gamers jump to this conclusions, is cause in the society of big companies there are usually abuses to consumers.

The consumers themselves like this makes sense to do, finacially this makes sense to do to make more money. Your are  doing less but making more.  If the fact is you complete a game, cut content, sell the game for the same price and then sell the content later.  If you are in it to make money, that is a good business plan.

Ethically not the best thing to do.  So I think it is the fear of being mistreated,  that big companies usually do mistreat, and in the end money is what makes the world go round is which makes these passionate threads pop up.

Honestly, I don't think this is something bioware would do.  I just trust the company not to do this. If it was another company? I don't know, maybe I'd be on the otherside.  But how the company has conducted themselves, and actually talks to their fan bases on a day to day bases, I trust them.  

Just that simple to me.

[Jimmy Fury]

bjdbwea wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

The business model is shared by a vast majority of the world and you can probably find equalient offers by just walking down a street with shops.

Actually, I don't think so. The main problem is that BioWare and EA seem to want to reward people for buying the cat in the bag, and they seem to go to great lengths for that. That you will not find in every other shop. Surely they are convinced of the quality of their product, so surely this shouldn't be necessary.

JK didn't say every, so don't attempt to skew his statement.
And yes, you will find that exact same practice in every entertainment store. Any place you can purchase new CD's, DVD's, or Books you will find at least one "preorder and get this free" offer or some sort of special limited edition that comes with bonus content not found on the regular version. As many many maaaany people have said, it's not a new gimmick. The moment used media got a foot hold in the industry and pirating became rampant these promotions started as a way to encourage sales that maximize profits to the publisher.

bjdbwea wrote...
So why are they opposed to the idea of
the content being included with each new game, that's the question. They
wouldn't lose anything by it.

Who said they were opposed to the idea? They've done it before so clearly it's not something they're opposed to. Again, you come up with a "that's the question" argument based on a loaded question you pulled out of nowhere.

[crimzontearz]

I'm sorry I so had to chuckle at the fact Stanley used "the more you know...".



The More you know the more you trust Bayer. Little do people know that Bayer was suppling the germas with gas for their death camps during WW2 before being bought out......



yeah....very reassuring LOL



ahem



having said that....the fact that less and less people see the concept behind this problematic is unsettling. Yes I WILL buy everything Bioware puts out for DA and ME (I still cannot believe I bought darkspawn chronicles) and that includes day one non free DLC. Still as others said there will come one day, if this continues in which you will just not be able to buy a complete game but only pieces through microtransactions.



sure, many will say "that is ridiculous no one will push it that far".....but if a few years back I had said "one day capcom will release a street fighter game in which all the material is in the main disc BUT it will mostly be locked and you will have to pay over time through microtransactions to unlock it" people would have said the very same thing.

[Dave of Canada]

This thread has just been Godwin'd.

[AlanC9]

bjdbwea wrote...
Actually, I don't think so. The main problem is that BioWare and EA seem to want to reward people for buying the cat in the bag, and they seem to go to great lengths for that. That you will not find in every other shop. Surely they are convinced of the quality of their product, so surely this shouldn't be necessary.

Is "cat in the bag" a metaphor local to this thread, or is it in general use someplace? I've only ever heard it here.

[Morroian]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

And yes, you will find that exact same practice in every entertainment store. Any place you can purchase new CD's, DVD's, or Books you will find at least one "preorder and get this free" offer or some sort of special limited edition that comes with bonus content not found on the regular version. As many many maaaany people have said, it's not a new gimmick. The moment used media got a foot hold in the industry and pirating became rampant these promotions started as a way to encourage sales that maximize profits to the publisher.

QFT

[AlanC9]

Jimmy Fury wrote...
And yes, you will find that exact same practice in every entertainment store. Any place you can purchase new CD's, DVD's, or Books you will find at least one "preorder and get this free" offer or some sort of special limited edition that comes with bonus content not found on the regular version. As many many maaaany people have said, it's not a new gimmick. The moment used media got a foot hold in the industry and pirating became rampant these promotions started as a way to encourage sales that maximize profits to the publisher.

This. We'd have seen this years ago in gaming if the technology was there. I've worked in textbook publishing and we used to do this sort of thing all the time -- except that we did even more of this because last year's textbook really is good enough to use this year instead of buying our new edition.

Edit: not exactly the same business model, of course. Textbooks are a funny racket because the professor, who makes the decisions, doens't actually pay for the books himself - not even his own copy.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 octobre 2010 - 04:51 .

[The Edge]

*Question*: How vital is this missing/extra member to your team? Is he/she a love interest or something of that nature? Or does he/she only add another option of skills in the party, with a little bit of backstory?

As a side-note, I still don't understand giving DLC avaiable at launch as a pre-order incentive. I thought that DLC was extra stuff for AFTER the game's released that wasn't ready and couldn't be put on the disc. As long as the pre-order bonuses aren't taking away from the essential DA2 package (just extras, not essentials), then I guess I'm "okay" with it...

Modifié par The Edge, 20 octobre 2010 - 04:06 .

[Dave of Canada]

The Edge wrote...

*Question*: How vital is this missing/extra member to your team? Is he/she a love interest or something of that nature? Or does he/she only add another option of skills in the party, with a little bit of backstory?

I'd probably compare it to Zaeed or Shale.

[Not...Mordin]

I probably won't buy the signature edition will be costing nearly $120-$150 price range here in NZ (Might be tempted to if it had some epic figurine like the halo:reach legendary pack though, Imagine it Hawke sanding there with his/her companions as they all begin to charge into battle or even if they were celebrating winning a battle by raising their weapons above their heads, would be awesome *fantasises* stuff like that makes me buy Collector/Signature editions.

Hopefully if I don't end up getting the signature edition I will still be able to Download said 'mystery companion' not too worried about the weapons (Okay maybe a little but who doesnt want the sword of the Sten, Seriously? it looks so B/A)

[AlanC9]

crimzontearz wrote...
Still as others said there will come one day, if this continues in which you will just not be able to buy a complete game but only pieces through microtransactions.

That's silly. You'll always be able to buy the entire game if you want. iTunes doesn't stop anyone from buying a whole album if he wants to.

[Untamed Nug]

Anarya wrote...

This is really like a "is the glass half full or half empty?" thing. Does one see the content as a cool bonus or something they cruelly ripped out of your game?

I dont belief this is a "diffrent viewpoints" thing, if the contend is finished before the game is even released i´d call it ripped out for profit reasons, if its contend done after the actual release i´d (maybe) call it a "cool bonus".

[Dave of Canada]

Untamed Nug wrote...

I dont belief this is a "diffrent viewpoints" thing, if the contend is finished before the game is even released i´d call it ripped out for profit reasons, if its contend done after the actual release i´d (maybe) call it a "cool bonus".

... and why? It uses different money, different timetable and the staff who're working on it are probably finished working with DA2. They could delay the DLC a month if it made people feel better, however it's ready and able immediately so why bother?

[AdamNW]

bjdbwea wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Your argument is null because Shale was a free DLC for everyone who bought the game new.

Yes, but the same thing is apparently not true for the additional character in DA 2. Or maybe it will be, in either case it's a questionable scheme. Sure, BioWare or rather EA have the right to do these things, but guess what, we already know that, and we didn't even need an official confirmation for that. That doesn't mean that we have to like it, nor that we wouldn't have a right to say that we don't like it.

This post proves that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Untamed Nug]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Untamed Nug wrote...

I dont belief this is a "diffrent viewpoints" thing, if the contend is finished before the game is even released i´d call it ripped out for profit reasons, if its contend done after the actual release i´d (maybe) call it a "cool bonus".

... and why? It uses different money, different timetable and the staff who're working on it are probably finished working with DA2. They could delay the DLC a month if it made people feel better, however it's ready and able immediately so why bother?

Thats the profit reason part (thats all DLC´s are infact) or how else would you call additional payable contend wich is done before the actual game itself?
And about the possibilty of staff memebers being done with theire work, considering the lacking quality of games these days (especially when it comes to whiping out bugs) its rather save to say that developers are "never" done working.