967 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

There's not much indication either way



In the case of ME 2 it looks like that stuff was scrapped early on which is why the final products are much different, even if Zaeed was released the same week

[Fynmor]

AlanC9 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
Actually, I don't think so. The main problem is that BioWare and EA seem to want to reward people for buying the cat in the bag, and they seem to go to great lengths for that. That you will not find in every other shop. Surely they are convinced of the quality of their product, so surely this shouldn't be necessary.

Is "cat in the bag" a metaphor local to this thread, or is it in general use someplace? I've only ever heard it here.

....."to buy a cat in a bag" (die Katze im Sack kaufen) is a phrase we use in Germany and the meaning is, that you (sometimes foolishly) accept a deal or an offering without examine it first.

[aaniadyen]

Fynmor wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
Actually, I don't think so. The main problem is that BioWare and EA seem to want to reward people for buying the cat in the bag, and they seem to go to great lengths for that. That you will not find in every other shop. Surely they are convinced of the quality of their product, so surely this shouldn't be necessary.

Is "cat in the bag" a metaphor local to this thread, or is it in general use someplace? I've only ever heard it here.

....."to buy a cat in a bag" (die Katze im Sack kaufen) is a phrase we use in Germany and the meaning is, that you (sometimes foolishly) accept a deal or an offering without examine it first.

It'll taste like chicken no matter what color it's fur is.

Trust me.

[ladydesire]

Untamed Nug wrote...

Anarya wrote...

This is really like a "is the glass half full or half empty?" thing. Does one see the content as a cool bonus or something they cruelly ripped out of your game?

I dont belief this is a "diffrent viewpoints" thing, if the contend is finished before the game is even released i´d call it ripped out for profit reasons, if its contend done after the actual release i´d (maybe) call it a "cool bonus".

This assumes that the character is complete now, which is something that is unknowable based on what information we have. Dialogs and party related content most likely is, since as I stated earlier, these things need to be part of the core game at release, but much of the rest of the content could still be waiting for the game to hit QA before actually being worked on.

[upsettingshorts]

Untamed Nug wrote...
I dont belief this is a "diffrent viewpoints" thing, if the contend is finished before the game is even released i´d call it ripped out for profit reasons, if its contend done after the actual release i´d (maybe) call it a "cool bonus".

Is it really that hard to see what the developers are saying?  Here's a handy visual aid:



Edit: Note that DAY 1 DLC graph bar includes its own QA/TESTING.  Left it out for the sake of simplicity.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 octobre 2010 - 12:24 .

[Blastback]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Untamed Nug wrote...
I dont belief this is a "diffrent viewpoints" thing, if the contend is finished before the game is even released i´d call it ripped out for profit reasons, if its contend done after the actual release i´d (maybe) call it a "cool bonus".

Is it really that hard to see what the developers are saying?  Here's a handy visual aid:

Heh, nice.

One reason that alot of people are so suspisious I think is that it is still such a new buisness model.  And ultimatly we the players are left taking Bioware at its word that this DLC is infact done seperate from the main game.  I belive them, and have no problem with it, but i can understand why some players feel suspisious.  It seems like it would be easy for a company to abuse this system, and rip things from the vanilla game for individual sale.

[Nerevar-as]

Blastback wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Untamed Nug wrote...
I dont belief this is a "diffrent viewpoints" thing, if the contend is finished before the game is even released i´d call it ripped out for profit reasons, if its contend done after the actual release i´d (maybe) call it a "cool bonus".

Is it really that hard to see what the developers are saying?  Here's a handy visual aid:

Heh, nice.

One reason that alot of people are so suspisious I think is that it is still such a new buisness model.  And ultimatly we the players are left taking Bioware at its word that this DLC is infact done seperate from the main game.  I belive them, and have no problem with it, but i can understand why some players feel suspisious.  It seems like it would be easy for a company to abuse this system, and rip things from the vanilla game for individual sale.

Other companies have already done that. If EA tells them to do that, don´t think BW could say no.

According to that visual aid, no QA for DLC. . Although it might be true considering Awakening or WH.

[upsettingshorts]

Nerevar-as wrote...
According to that visual aid, no QA for DLC. . Although it might be true considering Awakening or WH.

I actually thought about adding a sliver of purple there at the end of the DLC part, but I thought it might overcomplicate things and confust people.  

The idea is the DLC is developed along a different path and includes its own testing and QA.  If I had purple "QA" parts over both, it might be assumed that they were merged at some point and I wanted to avoid that.  And introducing another color would have just confused people.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 octobre 2010 - 12:20 .

[Blastback]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
According to that visual aid, no QA for DLC. . Although it might be true considering Awakening or WH.

I actually thought about adding a sliver of purple there at the end of the DLC part, but I thought it might overcomplicate things and confust people.  

The idea is the DLC is developed along a different path and includes its own testing and QA.  If I had purple "QA" parts over both, it might be assumed that they were merged at some point and I wanted to avoid that.  And introducing another color would have just confused people.

And still, more confusion! 

[crimzontearz]

AlanC9 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
Still as others said there will come one day, if this continues in which you will just not be able to buy a complete game but only pieces through microtransactions.

That's silly. You'll always be able to buy the entire game if you want. iTunes doesn't stop anyone from buying a whole album if he wants to.

Of course you will....just not in a single transaction that's all.

I can see it now, soon the next modern warfare or halo will be split in at least two purchases,one for campaign and one for multiplayer both of them 40$ and don't forget the 10$ for co op campaign which is extra...oh oh and remember that campaign achievements unlock new weapons for multiplayer and vice versa!
I just know at least EA is greedy enough to do it under the banner of "giving more choice to the player".

[TheMufflon]

Fynmor wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...
Actually, I don't think so. The main problem is that BioWare and EA seem to want to reward people for buying the cat in the bag, and they seem to go to great lengths for that. That you will not find in every other shop. Surely they are convinced of the quality of their product, so surely this shouldn't be necessary.

Is "cat in the bag" a metaphor local to this thread, or is it in general use someplace? I've only ever heard it here.

....."to buy a cat in a bag" (die Katze im Sack kaufen) is a phrase we use in Germany and the meaning is, that you (sometimes foolishly) accept a deal or an offering without examine it first.

A more apt idiom for this specific case would be 'Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

[Bobad]

What about "A bird in the hand, is worth a sh*t in the woods"?

[Orchomene]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

More than just the QA/Testing for the DLC is missing, but also the integration of the DLC into the main part development.
When you want to improve an existing software, you'd pretty be sure that the base soft is stable. Otherwise, you can easily have double development time. Thus, you should not begin DLC development before having the software design of the main game freezed.

Also, there are budget constraints. If the main game has 100M$ of budget, any content that would push the budget above this point has to be cut.
But if you can afford another team with another budget (like 10M$) for extra content, you may want to put in the cut content and develop it expecting to sell this new content as a DLC.
Of course, one can say that they might want to increase the initial budget to 110M$. But then, at the same level of sales, the price must also increase by 10%. At least, since increasing the price may have some effects of the volume of the sales. A better idea is to sell a game worth the market price (around 40 or 50 $) and sell extra content seperately.
This is a win/win situation :
- the producer may wait for the (pre- or not) sales results of the main game and adjust the risk level accordingly.
- the customer takes also an lower initial risk buying just the base game. If he likes the game to the point to want more of it, he will buy a DLC. Othwerwise, he won't and he has spent less money than if he paid initially for the whole product (main game + extra content).

[The_11thDoctor]

I like the fact that they are "giving" 20$ worth of free content to anyone that preorders, but I wander about the practice itself. The first DAO annoyed me with the fact that they had a guy inside the game trying to get more money out of me day one when I just bought the game. It was really off putting and I couldnt get myself to purchase any dlc for the game... I just dont like the fact that it was content that seemed to be part of the game, but locked so I couldn't access it. If I got that wrong, anyone can correct me, but that's how it felt and I didn't support the dlc due to it though I really wanted it bad. I'm also wandering about the $20 worth of content and what it is. I did preorder the game so I prob dont have much right to talk against the practice of day 1 dlc sense I'm supporting it currently(preordered DA2), but what happened to buying games and being able to access the whole disk? You paid for it! If you can't access something, then you havent played far enough or unlocked it thru hard work. That's how things used to be, but I think most companies are too greedy now. I dont have a problem with DLC if the company worked on it after the game shipped and offer dlc free or that is paid. They worked for it and made extra content that wasnt on disk to expand my game so I'll give them funds to cover it. No company is on the level of Valve with the free support they give their fans so I never expect much. Is the $20 worth of extra content part of the game or extra stuff? If it's nothing that was taken out of the game, then it's cool and no one not preordering should be worrying.



Sorry I think Im everywhere in this post...

[WilliamShatner]

Maybe BioWare know they have a stinker on their hands and are trying to sell as many copies as possible before reviews and WOM gets out?



Only a theory.

[crimzontearz]

God I hope not

[Dr Bawbag]

Four words - Inferno Armour/Equalizer Pack

That's why i'll never ever fork out for another BioWare exclusive edition, of any game. I don't mind the fact they released the piece of armour as extra content, it's the fact they bundled it together with other content that wasn't included. So if i had wanted the other content i would have had no choice but to pay for the Inferno armour 2 times over. So yeah, BioWare can [go fly a kite].


[Inappropriate comments edited.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 25 octobre 2010 - 07:23 .

[wikkedjoker]

People are we REALLY having this conversation? Go take 5 bucks to gamestop or your equivalent of an online retailer and preorder. If you don't have 5 bucks to preorder than you honestly dont need to be buying a 60+ dollar game.

[ladydesire]

Orchomene wrote...


More than just the QA/Testing for the DLC is missing, but also the integration of the DLC into the main part development.
When you want to improve an existing software, you'd pretty be sure that the base soft is stable. Otherwise, you can easily have double development time. Thus, you should not begin DLC development before having the software design of the main game freezed.

For a character, it is important to have at least certain parts done before the freeze, to be sure those parts work; for something like Return to Ostagar or Warden's Keep nothing needs to be added directly to the base game, so those can be done later than something like Shale or the mystery companion for DA2.

[StingingVelvet]

David Gaider wrote...

I find that a bit strange, from our perspective. We make a complete game-- from concept on up-- and then at some point we start considering what extra content we want to make available for DLC. The timing of it is irrelevant simply because it's extra-- if it wasn't for DLC, it wouldn't exist at all. It seems that some people seem to think that because the extra content exists, they are somehow entitled to it.

It's all well and good that this is the inside perspective, but you should listen to how it feels to your customers.  Even as someone who has bought every Bioware PC game ever made and who would have Dragon Age 2 pre-ordered by now anyway it feels like some of the game content is missing for some people, or that some of the game content is locked away behind an EA account.  Customers want to go buy the game and get the entire game, they don't want to play decipher the content.

Modifié par StingingVelvet, 26 octobre 2010 - 12:14 .

[Ryuukishi]

How about this-- BioWare offers Product X for Price Y and you decide whether that is worth it to you. If so, you buy it. If not, buy something else. I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape over which part was developed when and whether it was separate from the other part. It is what it is. Decide to buy it or not but stop the bellyaching.

[Jestina]

WilliamShatner wrote...
Maybe BioWare know they have a stinker on their hands and are trying to sell as many copies as possible before reviews and WOM gets out?
Only a theory.

That's more than likely true. I don't pre-order anything these days, no matter how much candy they dangle to us to buy the game blind.

Especially since everything i've seen about this game so far is a complete let down.

[Morroian]

StingingVelvet wrote...

It's all well and good that this is the inside perspective, but you should listen to how it feels to your customers.  Even as someone who has bought every Bioware PC game ever made and who would have Dragon Age 2 pre-ordered by now anyway it feels like some of the game content is missing for some people, or that some of the game content is locked away behind an EA account.  Customers want to go buy the game and get the entire game, they don't want to play decipher the content.

Why can't the customers listen to Bioware staff and the fact that the game will still be complete if you don't pre-order? Its a 2 way street.

Jestina wrote...

That's more than likely true. I don't pre-order anything these days, no matter how much candy they dangle to us to buy the game blind.

Especially since everything i've seen about this game so far is a complete let down.

So don't pre-order but don't then cry about not getting rewards that are there specifically for people pre-ordering. You know the situation up front.

[AdamNW]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Four words - Inferno Armour/Equalizer Pack

That's why i'll never ever fork out for another BioWare exclusive edition, of any game. I don't mind the fact they released the piece of armour as extra content, it's the fact they bundled it together with other content that wasn't included. So if i had wanted the other content i would have had no choice but to pay for the Inferno armour 2 times over. So yeah, BioWare can [go fly a kite].


[Inappropriate comments edited.]

Inferno Armor was a pre-order bonus, what the hell are you talking about?

[Krytheos]

AdamNW wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Four words - Inferno Armour/Equalizer Pack

That's why i'll never ever fork out for another BioWare exclusive edition, of any game. I don't mind the fact they released the piece of armour as extra content, it's the fact they bundled it together with other content that wasn't included. So if i had wanted the other content i would have had no choice but to pay for the Inferno armour 2 times over. So yeah, BioWare can [go fly a kite].


[Inappropriate comments edited.]

Inferno Armor was a pre-order bonus, what the hell are you talking about?

Just like this is a pre-order bonus. Which is what seems to be flying over people's heads rapidly, sometimes sacrificing reason and logic for 'RAEG' othertimes venting out other things, and a myriad of other possibilities I haven't listed.

No one seems to see the fact that it's bonus, optional content that will be available later on down the line, aside from say, the armory, which is the only exclusive bit of content from Gamestop. So..uh, yeah, I don't see what the raeg is about, other than either uninformed opinions, sillyness, or just pent-up-raeg exploding.

Either way you spin it though, this whole discussion wasn't even really necessary., truth be told.