967 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Wait, if you're already presuming that there will be a game of the year edition doesn't it stand to reason you expect the game to be really, really good?

[Wulfram]

Kilshrek wrote...

 Whatever happened to good old expansion packs?

People expect some sort of value for money with expansion packs.

[David Gaider]

Kilshrek wrote...
Not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but tone is notoriously difficult to convey across the internet. Whatever happened to good old expansion packs?

I don't know. I'm not the person who decides whether there's DLC or expansion packs or what have you, but my impression is that the only reason expansion packs existed to begin with was because they needed to go on the retail shelf. You had to put out something substantial enough that it could go on its own CD and sell as a separate entity.

Had digital delivery always been around, would expansion packs have ever been created? Again, I don't know. And I don't think we're ruling anything out at this point. One thing does not necessarily mean another is exluded, but this signature edition here is all we've announced.

[wantDA2now]

Wulfram wrote...

Kilshrek wrote...

 Whatever happened to good old expansion packs?

People expect some sort of value for money with expansion packs.

 

And a polished product if possible.

Modifié par wantDA2now, 15 octobre 2010 - 03:13 .

[Nerevar-as]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wait, if you're already presuming that there will be a game of the year edition doesn't it stand to reason you expect the game to be really, really good?

It´s like movies, most games with DLC now have a full edition after everything is out. Sometimes more than one because they don´t wait for everything before starting with the compilations. Quality is not part of it, although I do expect story and characters to be good. There´s just a limit to how much I´m expending on a game. Either there´s a CE with extras I´m interested in, or I wait.

[RyuAzai]

I posted this in another thread, but as these keep coming up I am just gonna copy and paste it here.


At first I was frustrated. Thinking that "You have to march to make this
game, yet you are already preaching about DLC?" Because this totally
throws out the idea that DLC can be used to put in game features that
they didn't have time to include which I am for.



Though
to be realistic, it isn't so much to make money off of more DLC, but
more to make people pre-order. Gamestop's buy used games, or just the
general buy used games anywhere, has really dealt a blow to the money
companies like bioware can make off their games. Gamestop keeps 100% of
the money it makes off of a used game.



And honestly a
new Fallout 3(When it was new) at 59.99? Or a used at 54.99? I will take
the fifty four and the people at gamestop keeps all that. So the game
industry has really had to find ways to get gamers to buy new games so
they can keep making money.



Hence the pre-order and you
get more things. And for those that don't, well they probably won't
make a lot of money off of them as it is very more likely they'll buy
used. So to actually make some money for people playing your game you
offer, to them, you make them buy the DLC



So in the end I
am not mad at bioware, really just gamestop. Despite enjoying the
ability to buy used games really cheap myself. It is just how the
industry is changing, how it is evolved because of what us, the gamers
and consumers, have done.

[Amfortas]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wait, if you're already presuming that there will be a game of the year edition doesn't it stand to reason you expect the game to be really, really good?

my bad, sorry, I wasn't rigorous enough, game of the year edition or whatever ridiculous name they decide to come up with to name a edition that comes with the DLC and at reduced price. Better now?
That said, yes, I expect the game to be good, but I'm a patient person, I prefer to confirm it before buying

[Addai]

OP, don't let the sales pitch jerk your chain. I'm jaded since I work in purchasing and listen to sales pitches all the time, but you have to look at it as a game and not take it personally. We don't even know if this extra content is worth the hype. If he/ she is, there will no doubt be a way to get the extra content later. They'll still want your money, even if they can't tease it out of you now, so it's not like they're going to say "oh, sorry, you missed the deadline, can't have it, gotcha!" If they do that, then we can rate the game company too stupid to be worth our time anyway and move on to something else.

[Dave of Canada]

If the game comes with:
Two rogue companions.
Two mage companions.
Two warrior companions.

... and the DLC added a third to one of these, is it not simply a bonus? You're still getting the full game, the game won't be hollow without this companion's existence. Just like how not having Zaeed or Shale made ME2/Origins feel any less of a full game.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 octobre 2010 - 03:38 .

[Leonia]

RyuAzai wrote...

I posted this in another thread, but as these keep coming up I am just gonna copy and paste it here.


At first I was frustrated. Thinking that "You have to march to make this
game, yet you are already preaching about DLC?" Because this totally
throws out the idea that DLC can be used to put in game features that
they didn't have time to include which I am for.



Though
to be realistic, it isn't so much to make money off of more DLC, but
more to make people pre-order. Gamestop's buy used games, or just the
general buy used games anywhere, has really dealt a blow to the money
companies like bioware can make off their games. Gamestop keeps 100% of
the money it makes off of a used game.



And honestly a
new Fallout 3(When it was new) at 59.99? Or a used at 54.99? I will take
the fifty four and the people at gamestop keeps all that. So the game
industry has really had to find ways to get gamers to buy new games so
they can keep making money.



Hence the pre-order and you
get more things. And for those that don't, well they probably won't
make a lot of money off of them as it is very more likely they'll buy
used. So to actually make some money for people playing your game you
offer, to them, you make them buy the DLC



So in the end I
am not mad at bioware, really just gamestop. Despite enjoying the
ability to buy used games really cheap myself. It is just how the
industry is changing, how it is evolved because of what us, the gamers
and consumers, have done.

That was an interesting read, I guess I hadn't considered the role of retailers much before since I usually buy my games through Steam. Enlightening and a bit depressing. I feel for the game industry, really.

[Marionetten]

Dave of Canada wrote...

... and the DLC added a third to one of these, is it not simply a bonus? You're still getting the full game, the game won't be hollow without this companion's existence. Just like how not having Zaeed or Shale made Origins feel any less of a full game.

But it did make it less of a game.

[Nozybidaj]

Marionetten wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

... and the DLC added a third to one of these, is it not simply a bonus? You're still getting the full game, the game won't be hollow without this companion's existence. Just like how not having Zaeed or Shale made Origins feel any less of a full game.

But it did make it less of a game.

Not having Zaeed?  I'd agree its not less of a game.  Not having Shale?  You would have definitely been missing out.

[Dave of Canada]

Marionetten wrote...

But it did make it less of a game.

How so? I beat Origins once and forgot to recruit Shale . The game didn't feel like I was missing this gigantic portion.

+ You just tend to recruit Zaeed and he doesn't do anything. :-/

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 octobre 2010 - 03:41 .

[Marionetten]

Dave of Canada wrote...

How so?

Because it's a direct loss of content. Less content means less gametime.

We can debate the magnitude of this lost content until the sun sets but it doesn't chage the fact that it's still a matter of having less content.

Modifié par Marionetten, 15 octobre 2010 - 03:42 .

[wantDA2now]

RyuAzai wrote...

I posted this in another thread, but as these keep coming up I am just gonna copy and paste it here.


At first I was frustrated. Thinking that "You have to march to make this
game, yet you are already preaching about DLC?" Because this totally
throws out the idea that DLC can be used to put in game features that
they didn't have time to include which I am for.



Though
to be realistic, it isn't so much to make money off of more DLC, but
more to make people pre-order. Gamestop's buy used games, or just the
general buy used games anywhere, has really dealt a blow to the money
companies like bioware can make off their games. Gamestop keeps 100% of
the money it makes off of a used game.



And honestly a
new Fallout 3(When it was new) at 59.99? Or a used at 54.99? I will take
the fifty four and the people at gamestop keeps all that. So the game
industry has really had to find ways to get gamers to buy new games so
they can keep making money.



Hence the pre-order and you
get more things. And for those that don't, well they probably won't
make a lot of money off of them as it is very more likely they'll buy
used. So to actually make some money for people playing your game you
offer, to them, you make them buy the DLC



So in the end I
am not mad at bioware, really just gamestop. Despite enjoying the
ability to buy used games really cheap myself. It is just how the
industry is changing, how it is evolved because of what us, the gamers
and consumers, have done.

Your reasoning would be valid if Bioware used the system from DA:O, buying first hand gives you a code to download the "extras", or if you buy second hand you need to purchase them as DLC. Because what they have announced for DA2 makes me more willing to buy second hand than the other way around. By buying second hand (considering always that I won't preorder) I save some money (10€ for example) that can be used to buy the "extras" so I have a game with more features than the people that buy first hand (again, not preordering) and pay 60€ for the basic game.

[Esbatty]

Holy crap, seriously people? Its a fricken preorder bonus. Get over yourselves. Don't preorder before Jan. 11th if you don't want the extra stuff, simple as that. Its not costing any extra and it won't break the game if you don't get it. Jiminy cricket, you'd think they were deciding they could only have 3 of 4 bodily functions available to them: Eat, Sleep, Poop, Breathe.

[Leonia]

Marionetten wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

How so?

Because it's a direct loss of content. Less content means less gametime.

We can debate the magnitude of this lost content until the sun sets but it doesn't chage the fact that it's still a matter of having less content.

Is all content good and worthwhile content though? Not having Shale doesn't deter from the overall story in the slightest bit. So you get a little extra dialogue here or there regarding Caridin maybe but you don't really miss out if you don't do Shale's companion quest. It's a nice little bit of extra if you do do it, sure, just as doing any of the DLC adds a little extra. People would argue that a lot of the DLC in Origins wasn't worth the price tag (I wouldn't be one of them). But all content is good content according to your definition. Maybe me being an MMO gamer makes me pessimistic about that. I've seen plenty of bad content that ruins games.

[Nerevar-as]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

... and the DLC added a third to one of these, is it not simply a bonus? You're still getting the full game, the game won't be hollow without this companion's existence. Just like how not having Zaeed or Shale made Origins feel any less of a full game.

But it did make it less of a game.

Not having Zaeed?  I'd agree its not less of a game.  Not having Shale?  You would have definitely been missing out.

To be fair Zaeed gives Paragon Shepard a few awesome moments. Shale was fully developed party member, had two scenarios, and DLC items that even transfered to Awakenings.

[Marionetten]

leonia42 wrote...

Is all content good and worthwhile content though?

Not only is that completely besides the point it's also entirely subjective.

[wantDA2now]

We're not discussing the importance of the so called "extras", but the fact that you get content (not gimmicks like unique weapons, clothes, etc) removed from your game if you don't preorder, because they've developed the game with that content in mind. For me it's as bad as Bioshock (DL)C, which was included in the discs, what a joke...

[bjdbwea]

So since Mr. Gaider did not respond to the actual issue, I guess that's at least confirmation that indeed the additional companion will not be included in any game pre-ordered or bought after January 11th, 2011. In other words, if I go into a store on release day, the DA 2 that I buy is missing a significant piece of content. Well, okay. As I said, then I'll rather not buy the game at all, regardless of how good it might be. You'll get my money as soon as I can buy the complete game (new game + release day DLC) for the same price that anyone who was bold enough to pre-order it could. If the game is worth that price, of course.

Though if the additional companion is of the same questionable quality as Zaeed or as uninteresting (only my opinion) as Shale, then it doesn't matter anyway. Yet it's still a strategy that the customers should not accept, I think, even though many apparently have no problems with each of these single steps that the industry forces upon them.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:21 .

[ErichHartmann]

wantDA2now wrote...

We're not discussing the importance of the so called "extras", but the fact that you get content (not gimmicks like unique weapons, clothes, etc) removed from your game if you don't preorder, because they've developed the game with that content in mind. For me it's as bad as Bioshock (DL)C, which was included in the discs, what a joke...

Bioshock 2 made people pay to unlock that DLC after release.  Hardly the same situation here. 

[Dave of Canada]

wantDA2now wrote...

We're not discussing the importance of the so called "extras", but the fact that you get content (not gimmicks like unique weapons, clothes, etc) removed from your game if you don't preorder, because they've developed the game with that content in mind. For me it's as bad as Bioshock (DL)C, which was included in the discs, what a joke...

But you don't get any less of the game. It's not like they pointed to that content and said "REMOVE IT! IT'S THE SPAWN OF BHAAL!" and then sold it. When they have free time, they work on the extra and then add in the code to the box.

[Sir JK]

Dave of Canada wrote...

wantDA2now wrote...

We're not discussing the importance of the so called "extras", but the fact that you get content (not gimmicks like unique weapons, clothes, etc) removed from your game if you don't preorder, because they've developed the game with that content in mind. For me it's as bad as Bioshock (DL)C, which was included in the discs, what a joke...

But you don't get any less of the game. It's not like they pointed to that content and said "REMOVE IT! IT'S THE SPAWN OF BHAAL!" and then sold it. When they have free time, they work on the extra and then add in the code to the box.

Not only that but John Epler confirmed in the other thread that the DLC have separate timetables and separate budgets. So it's not even part of the same process. It's literally a separate entity and if it wasn't created as DLC it would never be created at all.

So it is indeed, extra.

[MerinTB]

leonia42 wrote...
I remember a day when we didn't pre-order games or have incentives to do so. How spoiled RPG gamers are now!

You do?  What day was that?

I pre-ordered both Bard's Tale 3 and Pools of Darkness, and before that I was too young to be purchasing games myself (no job, no income)... so...

when were there no pre-orders?

And, as far as pre-order bonuses... games used to come with cloth maps and journal books and such for the REGULAR purchase.

Seriously, what era are you talking about where there were no pre-orders on games?  Wizardry 1?