967 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

slimgrin wrote...
This changes things...

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not.

[Addai]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

I say just pre-order the game now anyway. If Dragon Age 2 turn out not to be of your liking, get your money back. If you decide it's worth the money, you've got yourself some free content.

Retailers let you return software that's been opened??  Huh.

Uh, no? What I'm saying is if you read some reviews a few days before launch and decide the game is not for you, get your money back off the pre-order. I didn't mean take the game home and play it to see for yourself...

I see.  By "if it turns out not to be to your liking" I thought you meant playing the game first to see if you like it.  It's true that if you already think you'll pre-order, getting in before Jan 11th would be a good plan and a nice bonus.

[bjdbwea]

David Gaider wrote...

As for how people can get access to that bonus (or if they can) when they don't pre-order, you'll have to wait and see. I don't know when we're putting out that information.

Oh, I don't have to wait and see. I know that you're going to release the content for regular download eventually, for a price of course. The fact remains, the customer who refuses to buy the cat in the bag has to pay more to get the same content. Or maybe I'm wrong and it'll be included in each package after all, and it's just a marketing scheme to make it appear exclusive right now, I hope you're prepared to deal with the complaints about that then.

David Gaider wrote...

But I guess there will be people who will want the best of both worlds, regardless, and will rail against the very idea of DLC no matter what we say-- because we are, heaven forbid, putting out content that other people are willing to pay for. And them paying for it means you don't get it for free (or don't get it at all, which would normally have been the case in the past, though you wouldn't have known it was ever considered either and ignorance is usally bliss).

Sure, you can continue with this sort of spin. Everyone who dares to complain, is just greedy and jealous and wants everything for free and has no idea of how the market works. If you think that's a good way of dealing with customers. Some will probably even create "thank you" threads for it.

But the fact remains: There is a big difference between creating DLCs after release and - rightfully - charging money for it, and transparent schemes like the one we are discussing in this thread. And I can even understand that from a commercial standpoint, the used games market is something that you and especially EA don't like. That's why you created these release day DLCs for DA and the Cerberus network for ME 2. But pre-ordering or not is completely distinct from buying a game used or not. This is where in my opinion, the line in the sand has to be drawn.

Again, I'm not talking about some exclusive items, but about some actual in-game gameplay content like a companion or missions.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 octobre 2010 - 05:53 .

[Meltemph]

exclusive right now, I hope you're prepared to deal with the complaints about that then.

Like the exact same complaints that were in DAO? >.>



Ya, I think they are ready, just a guess.

[Addai]

bjdbwea wrote...

But don't forget that the game will be shipped immediately, so that everyone will have it on release day. There's no way to read any reviews from actual gamers who played the game. And a demo will probably only be released months after release (like with ME 2), if at all.

So you pay for your caution, but it's still worth it if you want to make sure that what you are getting will be a good return for your money.  The pre-order marketing incentive isn't anything outrageous, though.  Airlines charge you more if you wait until shortly before the flight to book, because they want you to make some commitment a few months out.  A lot of people who make that commitment are going to end up keeping it regardless, so it works out for them to give an incentive.

[bjdbwea]

Addai67 wrote...

So you pay for your caution, but it's still worth it if you want to make sure that what you are getting will be a good return for your money.  The pre-order marketing incentive isn't anything outrageous, though.  Airlines charge you more if you wait until shortly before the flight to book, because they want you to make some commitment a few months out.  A lot of people who make that commitment are going to end up keeping it regardless, so it works out for them to give an incentive.

But then again, a flight is no video game. You know exactly what to expect when you order a flight, transport from A to B. And you can even read comments and reviews on the internet about the particular airline. You do not know what exactly to expect from DA 2, though.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 15 octobre 2010 - 05:48 .

[Silellak]

Color me confused - if we can just cancel or "move" our pre-order at any time, even after January 11th, then what's with the arbitrary January 11th deadline?

But then again, a flight is no video game. You know exactly what to expect when you order a flight, transport from A to B. And you can even read comments and reviews on the internet about the particular airline. You do not know what to expect from DA 2, though.

Very true.  Especially considering the distinct lack of information regarding the PC version of DA2.

You want our loyalty?  Tell us more about the game you want us to buy.

Modifié par Silellak, 15 octobre 2010 - 05:45 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

Oh, I don't have to wait and see. I know that you're going to release the content for regular download eventually, for a price of course. The fact remains, the customers who refuses to buy the cat in the bag has to pay more to get the same content. Or maybe I'm wrong and it'll be included in each package after all, and it's just a marketing scheme to make it appear exclusive right now, I hope you're prepared to deal with the complaints about that then.

What's wrong with the concept? The people who pre-order buy a game they have not seen yet. Though chances are low, the game might be bad and they do not have a choice at that point whereas people who will wait for the first reviews by serious sources (mostly print journals) will not get any bonuses yet will be on the safe side knowing that they (hopefully) buy a good product.

People who pre-order support a game in a phase where money is needed the most as in this period, the developers do not get a high income compared to post-release thus people who are willing to blindly trust a developer should be rewarded for this kind of trust. Then again, if the game should have major flaws or is bugged to an unplayable state at release, those people cannot start whining. They pre-ordered to get bonuses and when you then get the above mentioned flaws, it's your very own fault.

I, personally, will buy the game a few months later anyway since Guild Wars 2 is coming at about the same time and two Triple A games at one time would be a threat to my social life

[Dave of Canada]

Silellak wrote...

Color me confused - if we can just cancel or "move" our pre-order at any time, even after January 11th, then what's with the arbitrary January 11th deadline?

To reward those who preorder early.

+ If there was a collector's edition, it wouldn't be able to be preordered by around January due to being sold out or something.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 octobre 2010 - 05:45 .

[Rogue Unit]

Probably just incentive from Bio-ware to go out a pre-order earlier. Who knows?

[captain.subtle]

David Gaider wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
I see it more as having content from the game cut if I don´t preorder before a certain date.

I find that a bit strange, from our perspective. We make a complete game-- from concept on up-- and then at some point we start considering what extra content we want to make available for DLC. The timing of it is irrelevant simply because it's extra-- if it wasn't for DLC, it wouldn't exist at all. It seems that some people seem to think that because the extra content exists, they are somehow entitled to it.

My response would be to wait and see if the base game is enough to justify its cost-- but I guess to some people it can never be enough, and nothing is ever "extra" if they want it. Well, fair enough.

Not getting it anyway, DAO left clear that waiting for GotY is the wise thing to do. There´s nothing in SE as there was in DAO CE to make up for purchasing the game in March.

If you're not interested in playing the game immediately, that's fair. The price of games always goes down eventually. It's sort of everyone's choice to decide what a game is worth to them, isn't it?

At any rate, for those people who were already planning on ordering ahead of time, this is a nice bonus. If you're not sure it's worth it to you, then you shouldn't get it-- but then you don't get to complain later on that you should receive the benefits anyhow, I think.

In the end, free market economy will be the only judge of the success of such a strategy. Good luck Bioware. it doesn't exist anyway (luck).

In Exile wrote...

One thing to consider is that the
video-game industry is in a bit of a poor situation right now. Costs of
production have gone up dramatically and far outpaced growth in sales.
Games sell for 10% more (if that) than several years ago, but cost on
the order 10-40 times more to produce. The reasonable economic move
would be to make the game more expensive, but the population would just
riot; so DLC fees for content like this is a way to essentially increase
the price of the game to keep pace with production costs while trying
to avoid the psychological feeling of a price hike to most consumers.

Who am I to say anything? But I like this argument.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I predict a Bioware rep will come
in to this thread and explain it is based on a flawed premise. Well,
because if they don't you'd have a point, and I expect you don't.

Still, I've been wrong before and certainly will be again.

*Spot the logical fallacy*

[Silellak]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Silellak wrote...

Color me confused - if we can just cancel or "move" our pre-order at any time, even after January 11th, then what's with the arbitrary January 11th deadline?

To reward those who preorder early.

+ If there was a collector's edition, it wouldn't be able to be preordered by around January due to being sold out or something.

Rewards should be earned.  If they want to earn our pre-orders, they should actually give us information about the game they want us to buy.

[upsettingshorts]

captain.subtle wrote...
*Spot the logical fallacy*

I don't see a logical fallacy.  I see an incorrect prediction.  Like I said, I've been wrong before, it's not something that bugs me.

Maybe appeal to authority?  Maybe, if the assertion is that I implied Bioware reps are infallible as opposed to trustworthy. Which I think would be a legitimate criticism, in hindsight.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 octobre 2010 - 05:52 .

[captain.subtle]

Silellak wrote...

Rewards should be earned.  If they want to earn our pre-orders, they should actually give us information about the game they want us to buy.

I would say that it is Advisible but not necessary. How can ANYTHING be necessary.

[captain.subtle]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...
*Spot the logical fallacy*

I don't see a logical fallacy.  I see an incorrect prediction.  Like I said, I've been wrong before, it's not something that bugs me.

I  was just saying that rep coming here would not mean a flawed premise...

[Rogue Unit]

Silellak wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Silellak wrote...

Color me confused - if we can just cancel or "move" our pre-order at any time, even after January 11th, then what's with the arbitrary January 11th deadline?

To reward those who preorder early.

+ If there was a collector's edition, it wouldn't be able to be preordered by around January due to being sold out or something.

Rewards should be earned.  If they want to earn our pre-orders, they should actually give us information about the game they want us to buy.

I'm sure by the time mid-January rolls round we'll have tons of information about the game.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 15 octobre 2010 - 05:53 .

[Leonia]

captain.subtle wrote...

Silellak wrote...

Rewards should be earned.  If they want to earn our pre-orders, they should actually give us information about the game they want us to buy.

I would say that it is Advisible but not necessary. How can ANYTHING be necessary.

Relieving yourself after an 8 hour ride is necessary.

[captain.subtle]

leonia42 wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Silellak wrote...

Rewards should be earned.  If they want to earn our pre-orders, they should actually give us information about the game they want us to buy.

I would say that it is Advisible but not necessary. How can ANYTHING be necessary.

Relieving yourself after an 8 hour ride is necessary.

Alistair was wrong about a lot of things....

[Addai]

bjdbwea wrote...
But then again, a flight is no video game. You know exactly what to expect when you order a flight, transport from A to B. And you can even read comments and reviews on the internet about the particular airline. You do not know what to expect from DA 2, though.

All the more reason the marketers to build in incentive, so that they get some pre-release momentum before reality hits for good or ill.  Like I said upthread, it's a game or a contest between what you want and what they think they can get you to pay for it.

Me, I feel burned by having paid $40 for Awakening on day of release.  I don't like the direction I see the franchise going in terms of gameplay and the greater focus on console.  So it's going to take more than this to move me off the dime.  It would be better marketing to show us more concrete stuff about the game, but I assume that's coming still.  I don't blame them for trying, regardless.

[pizoxuat]

Silellak wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Silellak wrote...

Color me confused - if we can just cancel or "move" our pre-order at any time, even after January 11th, then what's with the arbitrary January 11th deadline?

To reward those who preorder early.

+ If there was a collector's edition, it wouldn't be able to be preordered by around January due to being sold out or something.

Rewards should be earned.  If they want to earn our pre-orders, they should actually give us information about the game they want us to buy.

And they have until next year to do so.  They aren't cutting off the promotion tomorrow.

[Silellak]

pizoxuat wrote...

Silellak wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Silellak wrote...

Color me confused - if we can just cancel or "move" our pre-order at any time, even after January 11th, then what's with the arbitrary January 11th deadline?

To reward those who preorder early.

+ If there was a collector's edition, it wouldn't be able to be preordered by around January due to being sold out or something.

Rewards should be earned.  If they want to earn our pre-orders, they should actually give us information about the game they want us to buy.

And they have until next year to do so.  They aren't cutting off the promotion tomorrow.

Correct, but it still seems odd to even announce a "deadline" before giving us the information we need to make at least a moderately informed decision.

I am a software engineer.  If someone gives me a deadline to a project before telling me what the project is, I laugh in their face.  Well...maybe not out loud, but on the inside, at least.

[pizoxuat]

But this isn't a project. This requires no effort on your behalf other than having money and the ability to make a choice. They announced it now so that people who are ready to give them money can do so, and leave a large window for participation, during which they will be marketing the game.

[bjdbwea]

Addai67 wrote...

All the more reason the marketers to build in incentive, so that they get some pre-release momentum before reality hits for good or ill.  Like I said upthread, it's a game or a contest between what you want and what they think they can get you to pay for it.

Me, I feel burned by having paid $40 for Awakening on day of release.  I don't like the direction I see the franchise going in terms of gameplay and the greater focus on console.  So it's going to take more than this to move me off the dime.  It would be better marketing to show us more concrete stuff about the game, but I assume that's coming still.  I don't blame them for trying, regardless.

Yeah, I don't blame them for trying either. It was probably inevitable, and it's probably not going to be the last of this sort of ideas. It's their right, of course. I just hoped that perhaps more people would tell them that they don't like this strategy. Not that it would likely impress anyone.

It was ME 2 that disappointed me so much that I certainly wouldn't have pre-ordered Awakening even if I'd liked what I heard about it. And after reading some reviews, I have even less interest in buying the expansion. LotSB on the other hand was fantastic, but I still don't know if I'll want to pre-order even ME 3. It's not enough yet to convince me that the BioWare of old, the one that could be trusted to always deliver the greatest RPGs, is really back. Schemes like this one certainly do nothing to convince me either.