379 réponses à ce sujet

[Felene]

leonia42 wrote...

In a day and age where pre-order items and exclusive extra content is expected by everyone, it's easy to take things for granted. But some of us remember a time when company's didn't give out such wonderful rewards to their loyal customers. For those of us, we are thankful that Bioware thought of us when making the Signature Edition of DA 2.

It may strike the entitlement generation as strange that a company is offering exclusive content to folks who want to buy a game that is five months out from release. There are those conspiracy theorists out there who think this is just a ploy to avoid piracy. These are the folks who well yell and scream and refuse to pre-order the game (or will pre-order but demand that they receive more for their efforts and will denounce Bioware for daring to offer something extra to begin with). That's their perogative. They are free to think that way and hold those opinions.

Regardless, I personally am thankful, as a fan, that I and my fellow fans are being treated and rewarded. Thanks Bioware, you didn't have to offer an extra character and extra content but you did anyway. And you're not even charging us for it. You rock.

Can't wait to play DA 2 in March.

This. Thank you Bioware.

[Daerog]

At least this collector's edition or w/e isn't limited physically and you know when you can't get it anymore. Unlike other CE games where they can be quickly sold out before some people realize the CE was announced. The cut off allows them to make as many SE's as needed for those who preordered.

Cutting game content out of final package? Ok, well they are offering it free as well. It is likely just to protect their profits by having customers buy the game new and not used. Also, to increase sales by offering preorder bonuses. The weapons may only be for the SE, but the character is likely another Shale thing. I don't see the problem here. When I do have a problem with how games are being sold, I'll stop buying video games. Not much of a concern to me, personally, but I guess I can see it from the other side as well of the people who really care about the issue. But I just can't care that much over a video game or an industry that can remain profitable and continue providing jobs without me as a customer. It's not like they are dumping toxic waste into drinking water or torching the rain forest. Just my opinion. Game still works without the extras if someone doesn't wish to preorder.

Edit: Oh, and thanks to BioWare I suppose, I'll preorder sometime this month or next month.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 16 octobre 2010 - 12:41 .

[Sevens]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

At least this collector's edition or w/e isn't limited physically and you know when you can't get it anymore.

.... uh... yeah, that's because its "extra" elements aren't physical. On the other hand, its extras aren't physical. Good old days when games were complete and not fractured into myriads of DLC.

[Bobad]

Yeah! (In General)

Modifié par Bobad, 16 octobre 2010 - 12:49 .

[Dave of Canada]

The local clerks of Gamestop are talking to each other, probably talking about the recent expansion pack for World of Warcraft. I interrupt their conversation and ask them if they have the Collector's Edition of Cataclysm. They say they do, however they'll sell out within the week and demand that I preorder it immediately should I desire it.

"WHAT?" I yell out, "YOU WANT ME TO PREORDER?" the men behind the counter raise their eyebrows and tell me the Collector's Edition needs to be preordered or I'll be unable to recieve it on release. I raise my fist at them, saying that they have some nerve demanding that I preorder the game if I want this bonus content. I spit in their face and walk out of the store, bastards won't get a dime out of me for this preorder nonsense. I should be able to buy the game directly at the store without preordering!

HOW DARE THEY LIMIT THE COLLECTOR'S EDITION! /sarcasm

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 octobre 2010 - 12:52 .

[Saibh]

I'm going to repost these, because people have short memories or at least are uninterested by the dev stamps.

David Gaider wrote...

I find that a bit strange, from our perspective. We make a complete game-- from concept on up-- and then at some point we start considering what extra content we want to make available for DLC. The timing of it is irrelevant simply because it's extra-- if it wasn't for DLC, it wouldn't exist at all. It seems that some people seem to think that because the extra content exists, they are somehow entitled to it.

My response would be to wait and see if the base game is enough to justify its cost-- but I guess to some people it can never be enough, and nothing is ever "extra" if they want it. Well, fair enough.

David Gaider wrote...

I'll just point out that, if DLC hadn't been an option, Shale would simply have been cut entirely and you would never have seen it at all. That would be your preference, then?

David Gaider wrote...

Zlarm wrote...
10 years ago when dlc wasn't around that cool extra character idea might have been included into the game rather than set as a pre order bonus or as paid dlc...

Incorrect. It wouldn't have been included at all. DLC is created on a different timeline and is separate from the main game in both concept and execution-- the idea that we could or would simply fold these resources into the main game and make it bigger, no strings attached, is a fantasy. The main game is a herculean enough effort to create as it is.

There. For your reading pleasure. They aren't "cutting" anything. They simply pre-plan things they are making extra.

If they were told they can't make any more DLC, then you wouldn't be getting characters like Shale at all.

Modifié par Saibh, 16 octobre 2010 - 12:56 .

[tishyw]

Does anyone else here remember the EA released game 'Spore'? So much was stripped out of the original game so that the features could be sold as expansion packs that when the game was released there was barely anything left to it. One expansion pack was made for it before it died a barely noticed death.



I don't want to see that happen to Dragon Age, and even if this extra character was planned as a special release and not as part of the main game, to announce it 6 months before game release makes it LOOK like they are stripping content just as they did with Spore.

[Dave of Canada]

tishyw wrote...

Does anyone else here remember the EA released game 'Spore'? So much was stripped out of the original game so that the features could be sold as expansion packs that when the game was released there was barely anything left to it. One expansion pack was made for it before it died a barely noticed death.

It was also one of the most pirated games ever. I think the number sitting at around half a million or more.

[Daerog]

Sevens wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

At least this collector's edition or w/e isn't limited physically and you know when you can't get it anymore.

.... uh... yeah, that's because its "extra" elements aren't physical. On the other hand, its extras aren't physical. Good old days when games were complete and not fractured into myriads of DLC.

It's not fractured. It is a complete game. It doesn't have EVERYTHING (like unnecessary weapons) because those are incentives to buy it early, increase sales, and protect profits from used games. It is a complete game without the extras.

Not all CE's have physical extras. The Limited Edition of Jade Empire for the Xbox had no physical extras, just an extra character and weapon, with some "Creating the Game" vid and whatnot.

Ah, the "good ol' days," when broken games couldn't be fixed through patches and what you got was what you got.

[Zanaide]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Ah, the "good ol' days," when broken games couldn't be fixed through patches and what you got was what you got.

Pff, my "good ol' days" patches consisted of trying to figure out which line of code we copied out from one of our magazines was input incorrectly into our Commodore 64. My eyes still cross at the thought.

[Sevens]

Saibh wrote...

I'm going to repost these, because people have short memories or at least are uninterested by the dev stamps.

David Gaider wrote...

I find that a bit strange, from our perspective. We make a complete game-- from concept on up-- and then at some point we start considering what extra content we want to make available for DLC. The timing of it is irrelevant simply because it's extra-- if it wasn't for DLC, it wouldn't exist at all. It seems that some people seem to think that because the extra content exists, they are somehow entitled to it.

My response would be to wait and see if the base game is enough to justify its cost-- but I guess to some people it can never be enough, and nothing is ever "extra" if they want it. Well, fair enough.

David Gaider wrote...

I'll just point out that, if DLC hadn't been an option, Shale would simply have been cut entirely and you would never have seen it at all. That would be your preference, then?

David Gaider wrote...

Zlarm wrote...
10 years ago when dlc wasn't around that cool extra character idea might have been included into the game rather than set as a pre order bonus or as paid dlc...

Incorrect. It wouldn't have been included at all. DLC is created on a different timeline and is separate from the main game in both concept and execution-- the idea that we could or would simply fold these resources into the main game and make it bigger, no strings attached, is a fantasy. The main game is a herculean enough effort to create as it is.

There. For your reading pleasure. They aren't "cutting" anything. They simply pre-plan things they are making extra.

If they were told they can't make any more DLC, then you wouldn't be getting characters like Shale at all.

A well written argumentation from David Gaider.

But there's another perspective. Of course there's always the risk of "abuse" (simply calling things extra). And then there's the problem with integral content. (For the sake of the argument,) Assuming that it is extra content, I don't mind Shale all that much. (I generally dislike DLC and prefer on-disc content, "even though" I generally keep my games). Witch Hunt and Shadow Broker, for example, are problematic. This is essential content and shouldn't be put/split into DLC. Such content should either be part of the main game (be it as epilogue and perhaps at the cost of a secondary side quest) or of the sequel (part of/prologue to DA 2 and ME2, respectively). 

Modifié par Sevens, 16 octobre 2010 - 01:28 .

[tishyw]

Dave of Canada wrote...

tishyw wrote...

Does anyone else here remember the EA released game 'Spore'? So much was stripped out of the original game so that the features could be sold as expansion packs that when the game was released there was barely anything left to it. One expansion pack was made for it before it died a barely noticed death.

It was also one of the most pirated games ever. I think the number sitting at around half a million or more.

I think it's THE most pirated game ever, but for different reasons, the campaign to pirate Spore was started because of the outrageous security EA planned to use for it.  But that's off-topic, despite all the pirating, Spore was still one of the top selling games in the year it came out.

The fact remains, that the game bombed because the released product was so limited and lacking in contect that should obviously have been there but had been removed, that no-one played it for more than a few days.

[HTTP 404]

pre-order sales is quite significant these days. The earlier the better, it also helps companies gauge how much they will sell. On top of that, getting money now is better than getting money later.



On a side note, a discount deal right now aimed at devout fans is a nice albiet smart move by bioware.

[Sevens]

"Ah, the "good ol' days," when broken games couldn't be fixed through patches and what you got was what you got."



From the SNES on, I haven't had any major problem with any console game. In my view, the possibility to patch things has a negative effect on (the initial) quality (assurance). Naturally there are multiple factors (such as games getting more complex).

[Daerog]

Sevens wrote...

Witch Hunt and Shadow Broker, for example, are problematic. This is essential content and shouldn't be put/split into DLC. Such content should either be part of the main game (be it as epilogue and perhaps at the cost of a secondary side quest) or of the sequel (part of/prologue to DA 2 and ME2, respectively). 

Ah, ok, so this is your view on how games should be made. A fair point and not wishing for... I guess "essential" parts of the story to be added later, you wish to get the important stuff on the disc.

However, this also causes a problem. The DLC team who made the WH and LotSB are not the same as those developing the core game of DA2 or ME3. WH and LotSB were finished after the release of DA:O and ME2 due to time restrictions if not just thought of after the release, and with the core developer team working on ME3 and/or DA2, they don't have the time for extra content like WH and LotSB, and if it wasn't released as DLC, it would not be released. It would likely not qualify for an expansion pack due to the cost of developing the physical parts, slapping it on a disc, and then having complaints about an expansion pack that was smaller than Awakening.

The developers have to finish the core game within a certain time and can't constantly be delayed (it can two or three times, but it needs to be released because it is costing more money the longer it is worked on). Just adding the people from the DLC team to the core team will just increase the cost of making the game, removing the DLC team removes DLC (including WH and LotSB and other extras), and just only releasing free DLC leaves the DLC team unfunded. I don't know the business, but this is my understanding. I don't buy every DLC, but I do sometimes and am grateful that BW can add more to games after the release.

The problem is DLC at release. Well, this is just incentive to buy the game early, increase sales, and to cut off the used game market. It is usually free anywayon day 1, and Day 1 DLC that costs $$ is usually done by the DLC team b/c the core developers had no time for it, and they need to make money at some point to support the DLC team.

[Sevens]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Sevens wrote...

Witch Hunt and Shadow Broker, for example, are problematic. This is essential content and shouldn't be put/split into DLC. Such content should either be part of the main game (be it as epilogue and perhaps at the cost of a secondary side quest) or of the sequel (part of/prologue to DA 2 and ME2, respectively). 

Ah, ok, so this is your view on how games should be made. A fair point and not wishing for... I guess "essential" parts of the story to be added later, you wish to get the important stuff on the disc.

However, this also causes a problem. The DLC team who made the WH and LotSB are not the same as those developing the core game of DA2 or ME3. WH and LotSB were finished after the release of DA:O and ME2 due to time restrictions if not just thought of after the release, and with the core developer team working on ME3 and/or DA2, they don't have the time for extra content like WH and LotSB, and if it wasn't released as DLC, it would not be released. It would likely not qualify for an expansion pack due to the cost of developing the physical parts, slapping it on a disc, and then having complaints about an expansion pack that was smaller than Awakening.

The developers have to finish the core game within a certain time and can't constantly be delayed (it can two or three times, but it needs to be released because it is costing more money the longer it is worked on). Just adding the people from the DLC team to the core team will just increase the cost of making the game, removing the DLC team removes DLC (including WH and LotSB and other extras), and just only releasing free DLC leaves the DLC team unfunded. I don't know the business, but this is my understanding. I don't buy every DLC, but I do sometimes and am grateful that BW can add more to games after the release.

The problem is DLC at release. Well, this is just incentive to buy the game early, increase sales, and to cut off the used game market. It is usually free anywayon day 1, and Day 1 DLC that costs $$ is usually done by the DLC team b/c the core developers had no time for it, and they need to make money at some point to support the DLC team.

I doubt the thought of Witch Hunt's and Shadow Broker's content/story just came to them later on. It's pretty dominant stuff. And again, it could've been a prologue to ME 2 and DA 2, respectively. (This might also have convinced a number of people to get the previous (first) games, by the way.) Or some of the more meaningless parts (side quests, parts of areas) could've been sacrificed/used for DLC later on. It seems to me that they simply considered this more attractive content; content that can (as addition) be sold better. The alternative is that they didn't see the relevance of Morrigan/Flemeth and Liara (etc.). That, however, is very unlikely.

Modifié par Sevens, 16 octobre 2010 - 01:54 .

[In Exile]

Sevens wrote...
Witch Hunt and Shadow Broker, for example, are problematic. This is essential content and shouldn't be put/split into DLC. Such content should either be part of the main game (be it as epilogue and perhaps at the cost of a secondary side quest) or of the sequel (part of/prologue to DA 2 and ME2, respectively). 

The reply from Bioware, I think, would be that if the only options are disk or bust, they will choose bust. So in absence of DLC there will be no shadow broker, and no witch hunt.

[Daerog]

Sevens wrote...

I doubt the thought of Witch Hunt's and Shadow Broker's content/story just came to them later on. It's pretty dominant stuff. And again, it could've been a prologue to ME 2 and DA 2, respectively. (This might also have convinced a number of people to get the previous (first) games, by the way.) Or some of the more meaningless parts (side quests, parts of areas) could've been sacrificed/used for DLC later on. It seems to me that they simply considered this more attractive content; content that can (as addition) be sold better. The alternative is that they didn't see the relevance of Morrigan/Flemeth and Liara (etc.). That, however, is very unlikely.

Probably they could have sacrificed side missions to make room for such DLC. Probably would have to remove a lot of side content due to how simple some side content can be and how focused content like LotSB had to be. I'm not sure, I don't know how BioWare operates when scheduling things or their development process.

Probably it wasn't thought of afterwards, but probably the writing part of the game, the stuff that needs to be done first, had no time when the development process had to start and the writing of such things had to be put off or moved to DLC. Speculation of course, but the writers do talk about how there is a cut off and deadline for writing long before the game is finished.

And while I liked WH personally, I can't say people missed out if they didn't get it. LotSB did seem pretty essential with the plot, seeing how something concluded rather than being left all mysterious, but it probably had to do with how everything was scheduled and the writing for LotSB wasn't done on time, or they thought that they couldn't fit it in with what they plan for ME3.

Or they did it for just as a move for pure profit. All speculation on my side.

[Leonia]

Zanaide wrote...

Captain Hex wrote...

Seriously, people here are acting like they'll get halfway through a quest and run out of map, and be directed to a dlc purchasing page with a picture of a David Gaider giving them the finger.

I would pay for that DLC.

I'd pay $5 if he does voice-work to go with it. 

Wow, guys, I had nightmares about ungrateful people last night. Looks like there are still some reasonable folks on the forum, good for you!

[cancerbaby]

Sevens wrote...

A well written argumentation from David Gaider.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Anyway, I rarely preorder and I almost never buy anything on release day because I hate standing in line at the mall almost as much as I hate making smalltalk with the guy at the EB--I can never stop staring at his bridge piercing--and I definitely never buy Collector's Editions because I have too much crap in my house as it is. But I think it's nice that the people who were going to buy it anyway get it for less than they would have otherwise paid because I've signed onto Jennifer Lawson's FURIOUSLYHAPPY campaign.

I'm not sure where this seats me on the Sliding Scale of Bioware Fan Rage, though. Possibly in the "pass me another Daiquiri in a Bag, this **** is bananas" corner.

Also, pass me another Daiquiri in a Bag. This **** is bananas.

[TheMadCat]

I'd hardly give praise to a company when they're asking you to preorder 3 months prior to the games actual release in order to get these "goodies". If that ran it up to the launch date then it'd be a different story.

[GithCheater]

Thank you, Bioware, for the promotional incentives to buy DA2. Now I will not feel bitter in a year or two when the DA2 ultimate edition goes on sale at a heavy discount, as Bioware showed its appreciation for early adapters.

[addiction21]

*Passes cancerbaby another Daiquiri*



Its an incentive for me to pre-order since it was almost a guarantee I would of bought DA2 somewhere down the line. Still waiting for a bit more information (like some "official" gameplay footage) but that gives BW 10 weeks.



Hell I just might push one of my sisters or friends into making the pre-order a chritmas present and save me all the trouble parting with my money.

[Dave of Canada]

TheMadCat wrote...

I'd hardly give praise to a company when they're asking you to preorder 3 months prior to the games actual release in order to get these "goodies". If that ran it up to the launch date then it'd be a different story.

Most Collector's Edition version of games require a preorder of they'll sell out before release. How is this any different? The good thing being here that Bioware is telling you the exact date of the cutoff instead of showing up and going "Sup. Sorry, we're sold out.".

[Riona45]

Since I always intended to play DA2 when it came out (rather than wait for a price drop) I feel I got a good deal on this.