183 réponses à ce sujet

[Riona45]

I didn't exactly miss sewers in DA:O, although I won't lose sleep over them being back either.

Modifié par Riona45, 17 octobre 2010 - 12:02 .

[Seb Hanlon]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

In about four weeks (give or take? I can't remember David's exact number), it'll be inconceivable that it would ever have been called otherwise.

Are there exceptions to the rule?

I'd imagine there are -- there's some names that are just too silly, or too much of a mouthful to stick -- but I suspect it's related to the same principle that causes words to slip their meaning if you say them over and over and over again. The name slips off of whatever connotation it had before and associates itself with the named thing.

It happens a lot during development, even with deliberately "temporary" codenames.

[Lord_Valandil]

Why the hate?

Lowtown isn't the greatest name ever invented...but certainly, not the worst.

[Demx]

*Is expecting Hightown and Lighttown to appear later on...*

[Riona45]

Eh, I'm with those who think "Lowtown" sounds authentic, like the type of name that would be applied to that sort of place (even in a "non-modern" setting).

[Face of Evil]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Remember David's rule of naming -- When you come up with a name, regardless of how good it is, most everyone will hate it the first time they hear it.

In about four weeks (give or take? I can't remember David's exact number), it'll be inconceivable that it would ever have been called otherwise.

That's exactly what happened when they named Canada.

At first everyone was like "Oh that sucks," but then we got the hockey team in Montreal and suddenly all the pieces fell into place. 

[bsbcaer]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...

Anarya wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Lowtown better have a brothel for side distractions.

Well there's gonna be a brothel *somewhere* in Kirkwall. Lowtown seems like a likely spot.

It could be in dark town, although I shiver at the thought of what might be on offer if such was the case. >.>

They'd never put the brothel in Lowtown. What if there was a tidal wave? Maker forbid the brothel should be destroyed in the event of a natural disaster!

Well, it certainly would give new meaning to the phrase "on the down low"

[Patriciachr34]

Well you could just borrow the names from other languages. The San Francisco Bay area was colonized by the Spanish. So we have the romantic town names like Milpitas (place of a thousand wh0res) and streets like Alameda De Las Pulgas (avenue of the fleas). We could just change low town to Ciudad Baja. Problem solved.

[Dhiro]

Milpitas...? It's not Milputas? But I guess brazillian portuguese is different from spanish.

Modifié par Dhiro, 17 octobre 2010 - 03:44 .

[tmp7704]

That's good point. Given the city origins, having names in Tevinter language would certainly make sense.

... what do they speak in Tevinter, anyway?

[Dhiro]

tmp7704 wrote...

That's good point. Given the city origins, having names in Tevinter language would certainly make sense.
... what do they speak in Tevinter, anyway?

I'm sure it's not portuguese.

Latin?

[tmp7704]

Dhiro wrote...

Latin?

Kinda too easy.

hmm the capital is "Minrathous"...

oh wait, wiki to the rescue

"Arcanum, the official language of the Imperium, was designed to be a potential distant ancestor to English."

well, crap. I guess pig-latin of some sorts it is, then.

[Dhiro]

Dhiro é o mais maravilhoso e incrível de todos.



There is, latin. Now I can go and rule Tevinter.



I'm being so sincere right now. Want some cake? It's delicious and moist.

[LOLZAO]

Dhiro wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

That's good point. Given the city origins, having names in Tevinter language would certainly make sense.
... what do they speak in Tevinter, anyway?

I'm sure it's not portuguese.

Latin?

man i am yet to see a game which has portuguese names on thing(there is no love for my beloved brazilian portuguese)

But yeah i think that on the Tevinter  Imperium they speak latin since it  influenced by the real-world Byzantine Empire.

Modifié par LOLZAO, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Dhiro]

LOLZAO wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

That's good point. Given the city origins, having names in Tevinter language would certainly make sense.
... what do they speak in Tevinter, anyway?

I'm sure it's not portuguese.

Latin?

man i am yet to see a game which has portuguese names on thing(there is no love for my beloved brazilian portuguese)

But yeah i think that on the Tevinter Imperim they speak latin since it  influenced by the real-world Byzantine Empire.

Um brasileiro? Aqui? Droga! Eu nunca me livro de vocês? *corre para a França*

Ahem. We're off topic, aren't we. So, I don't hate Lowtown. I don't love the name, but I guess it's a fine name.

[The Lyons]

SirOccam wrote...

I have no problem with "Lowtown" as a name. It is low, in terms of both altitude and economy (and likely culture, at least in the opinions of those who live in other areas). Why this is not a perfectly reasonable name for people to come up with I don't understand. Not everyone and everything in Fantasy needs to be whimsical and colorful.

It's just a nickname that the people collectively made up. It seems perfectly natural for it to be a relatively practical and simple one.

Because, combined with Darktown, it sounds like the writers just collectively said, "Welp, we thought for five minutes and couldn't come up with anything original, so we'll name one 'Low' and the other 'Dark' and add town at the end." It is not only unimaginative, but it just doesn't sound natural at all. When I am describing something that is under my feet, I don't say "Oh hey, that is low!" If anything, I would call it "Undertown" or something similar. The fact that they named the sewers (and people in them) "Darktown" makes even less sense, since  Sewers describes what they are regardless of their inhabitants just fine. It just reeks of trying too hard and being outed for lack of imagination.

[Cutlasskiwi]

The Lyons wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

I have no problem with "Lowtown" as a name. It is low, in terms of both altitude and economy (and likely culture, at least in the opinions of those who live in other areas). Why this is not a perfectly reasonable name for people to come up with I don't understand. Not everyone and everything in Fantasy needs to be whimsical and colorful.

It's just a nickname that the people collectively made up. It seems perfectly natural for it to be a relatively practical and simple one.

Because, combined with Darktown, it sounds like the writers just collectively said, "Welp, we thought for five minutes and couldn't come up with anything original, so we'll name one 'Low' and the other 'Dark' and add town at the end." It is not only unimaginative, but it just doesn't sound natural at all. When I am describing something that is under my feet, I don't say "Oh hey, that is low!" If anything, I would call it "Undertown" or something similar. The fact that they named the sewers (and people in them) "Darktown" makes even less sense, since  Sewers describes what they are regardless of their inhabitants just fine. It just reeks of trying too hard and being outed for lack of imagination.

I think Lowtown is a perfectly good name. Like SirOccam said, not every fantasy name needs to be whimsical and colorful. To me it sounds like a place my rogue would like to visit. 
And what's wrong with naming the sewers? It's a nickname that fits because things are even worse there than in Lowtown.. 

[DMC12]

elektrego wrote...

well, an average writer would think of a fancy/exotic name that makes your ear smile. A good writer chooses a name that would likely have been given by the people that live in or around the city in the language they speak themselves and that means something to them, a process that takes years / decades / sometimes maybe centuries. If you take most names and strip away the language changes over time you mostly get a very simple meaning.
In this case the names Lowtown / Darktown, that are "only" referring to parts of a larger city, probably came into use not that long ago i.e. a big language shift hasn't occured since then; someone mentioned the expression Downtown for modern cities - a good example from reality.

Good point. Where I live, there's a district not too far from me that's unofficially called Boystown. If you think that's a pretty gay name, then you're right, for it's heavily populated by the gay community. Lowtown was obviously called what itis because of its features.

As long as Lowtown has a cool look like in the concept art and an interesting atmosphere, I'll be fine with it.

[Wulfram]

Lowtown is a better name than "Slums District"

[Lintanis]

 Roll on pictures of Hightown 

[tmp7704]

Lintanis wrote...

 Roll on pictures of Hightown 

No, no. It's "middlecity" and then "Soaring Heights". This way everyone gets something to moan about

[The Lyons]

elektrego wrote...
. A good writer chooses a name that would likely have been given by the people that live in or around the city in the language they speak themselves and that means something to them, a process that takes years / decades / sometimes maybe centuries. If you take most names and strip away the language changes over time you mostly get a very simple meaning.
In this case the names Lowtown / Darktown, that are "only" referring to parts of a larger city, probably came into use not that long ago i.e. a big language shift hasn't occured since then; someone mentioned the expression Downtown for modern cities - a good example from reality.

Alright, no. "Good writers" do not name two places "Lowtown" and "Darktown," and they especially do not use it on the flimsy logic that such expressions appear in modern day cities. Downtown is actually an incredibly bad example that misses the point on pretty much every level. Is Downtown down while Uptown is up? Not to mention that "downtown" and "uptown" are not specific names given to parts of specific cities, they are a general term used universally. One would need to be backwards to not understand this. Next you will tell me that "suburbs" is a unique nickname. 

Moving on, the biggest problem with the Lowtown/Darktown issue is that it does not sound natural at all. Lowtown might be okay if I repeated it a few hundred times to myself, but Darktown just sounds like trying too hard. For one, it is apparently not a town district nor part of a town district (it is the sewer system for christ's sake). Secondly, Sewers sounds much better in the first place, it is the simpler answer, and doesn't sound hackneyed. The main problem is, in this case the simple answer would be the best answer. The Slums sounds infinitely better than Lowtown, and goes miles further in describing what it actually is. Lowtown sounds like some idiot writer trying to come up with a way to make a name that has dual/clever meaning and pat himself on the back about it. A commoner in what is supposed to be the not-Middle Ages is not going to be clever enough to think "Well, you see we call it Lowtown because it is low and it describes the social status of everyone living there! Kekekekeke!"

It all just sounds like bad writing to me. What people do not understand is that common people in what is a "Dark Ages" fantasy equivalent are not going to make vague allusions to contextual elements of a city through its name. They will name exactly what it is. If that part of town is on the side of a cliff, they are more likely going to name it Cliffside if anything. Comparing it to another place with a contextual term is probably the last thing they will do, as it is not overly simple and does not expressly describe what the place is. Darktown is even less likely because although it may be dark in the sewers, they are not a town nor do they probably warrant a special name. I cannot think of a city from ancient times that gave its catecombs/sewers special names.

Modifié par The Lyons, 17 octobre 2010 - 06:40 .

[tmp7704]

The Lyons wrote...

Downtown is actually an incredibly bad example that misses the point on pretty much every level. Is Downtown down while Uptown is up? Not to mention that "downtown" and "uptown" are not specific names given to parts of specific cities, they are a general term used universally. One would need to be backwards to not understand this. Next you will tell me that "suburbs" is a unique nickname. "

Downtown as generic term evolved from "Downtown/Lower Manhattan" which was named such because it was south i.e. "down" on maps. "Lowtown (Kirkwall)" works on very similar principle,

It doesn't require one to be "backward" to understand it, but merely to know a little.

but Darktown just sounds like trying too hard. For one, it is apparently not a town district nor part of a town district (it is the sewer system for christ's sake). Secondly, Sewers sounds much better in the first place, it is the simpler answer, and doesn't sound hackneyed.

Unless Darktown is used by the citizens to make distinction between the part of sewers that's inhabited by humans and the regular sewers which ain't... in which case naming both areas "sewers" would pretty much fail to make distinction at all.

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 octobre 2010 - 06:37 .

[The Lyons]

tmp7704 wrote...
Downtown as generic term evolved from "Downtown/Lower Manhattan" which was named such because it was south i.e. "down" on maps. "Lowtown (Kirkwall)" works on very similar principle,

It doesn't require one to be "backward" to understand it, but merely to know a little.

This still does not help Lowtown's case. Downtown evolved as a result of it being "down" on maps. That is describing a feature of the town, down on maps. Not to mention that term did not appear until 200 years after the city was settled, and also appeared in a completely different time period as to the supposed time period that Dragon Age is occurring in. Also, I was referring to the claims that Downtown in a modern usage (i.e. general and universal) covers this, as it does not. Thanks for the wiki definition, though. 

The problem is, approaching this as if all eras/societies use the same naming schemes and techniques is unreasonable. If they are going by the old Germanic approach of "name what you see," it is unlikely they are going to use context in their description. 

Unless Darktown is used by the citizens to make distinction between the part of sewers that's inhabited by humans and the regular sewers which ain't... in which case naming both areas "sewers" would pretty much fail to make distinction at all.

The problem is, the average citizen is not going to understand the difference between the parts inhabited and the parts not. You are working from the assumption that they would be viewing this from a modern perspective, in which case we would see distinction between "Inhabited Sewers" and "Uninhabited Sewers", which the average citizen circa fantasy time frames would most likely not. This is especially true if they did not actively go down into the Sewer systems. 

The reason most fantasy games go with fluffy names is because it is fantasy. They are not attempting to mirror reality, and for good reason. When they do it usually ends up looking incredibly hackneyed, as with this. 

Modifié par The Lyons, 17 octobre 2010 - 06:59 .