285 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

Lurklen wrote...
I thought Gaider already put this to rest. Didn't he directly say Morrigan wasn't Maric's daughter?

No

[Bootsykk]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

The book made this pretty clear since Flemeth got it on with Maric (making them half siblings) and that Allistair and Morrigan are around the same age. Where is Gaider going with this? And are we going to get Allistair's reaction for players who had him do the Dark ritual.

Uh... I read the book, and I don't recall it being very clear at all that Flemeth convinced Maric to have a child with her. They went to discuss things, and had on off-scene discussion. Or maybe they got jiggy with it in that time.

But either way this assumption seems way off.
1. Why would Flemeth want a bastard son of a King?
2. Why would Flemeth suddenly want a son, rather than a daughter at that?
3. Sorry, but incest is kind of taboo right now. Why? Because it causes severe deformities in any children conceived, and on the rare occasion in which a child is healthy it is when a person has sex with their half-cousin twice removed or some ****.

I doubt that Bioware is wanting to handle the total political ****storm that goes down if they did portray an incestual relationship between two people of the same mother who could POTENTIALLY HAVE A CHILD.

Besides, nobody even knows if Flemeth can have children. This was explicitly stated by Morrigan herself--she doesn't look anything like her mother, she knows her mother isn't even human, ect, ect.

excuse me, I have some facepalming to do in account to my own silliness.

Modifié par Juneya, 16 octobre 2010 - 01:31 .

[DarthCaine]

Juneya wrote...

1. Why would Flemeth want a bastard son of a King?
2. Why would Flemeth suddenly want a son, rather than a daughter at that?

erm, the OP didn't mean that Alistair is Flemeth's son. He meant Alistair and Morrigan have the same father (Maric) but different mothers (Fiona and Flemeth)

[GodWood]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
The book made this pretty clear since Flemeth got it on with Maric (making them half siblings) and that Allistair and Morrigan are around the same age.

Morrigan is around late 20's to early 30's, Alistair is in his early 20's.

Juneya wrote...
Uh... I read the book, and I don't recall it being very clear at all that Flemeth convinced Maric to have a child with her. They went to discuss things, and had on off-scene discussion. Or maybe they got jiggy with it in that time.

But either way this assumption seems way off.
1. Why would Flemeth want a bastard son of a King?
2. Why would Flemeth suddenly want a son, rather than a daughter at that?

I think you misunderstand the theory.
Morrigan is the child of Maric/Flemeth.

[DarthCaine]

Alistair is exactly 20 at the time or Origins if Fiona is his mother

[Bootsykk]

GodWood wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
The book made this pretty clear since Flemeth got it on with Maric (making them half siblings) and that Allistair and Morrigan are around the same age.

Morrigan is around late 20's to early 30's, Alistair is in his early 20's.

Juneya wrote...
Uh... I read the book, and I don't recall it being very clear at all that Flemeth convinced Maric to have a child with her. They went to discuss things, and had on off-scene discussion. Or maybe they got jiggy with it in that time.

But either way this assumption seems way off.
1. Why would Flemeth want a bastard son of a King?
2. Why would Flemeth suddenly want a son, rather than a daughter at that?

I think you misunderstand the theory.
Morrigan is the child of Maric/Flemeth.

I did indeed.
But question 3 still stands: the option of being able to conceive a child with one's half-brother is still pretty out there.

Also, If I do remember correctly... they didn't even spend a night together. I was under the impression that Flemeth was just prophesying something that he would play a vital role in.

oh, and to best explain why this theory seems so off to me:

Aaaaaand, this is why I hate this theory so much. It is based on
NOTHING. "Golly, why else would Maric go into Flemeth's hut alone if not
to have wild sex with her? There certainly couldn't be any other
explanation." Oh wait-- there could be. She could have had things to
tell him, for example, that she didn't want Loghain to hear (by far the
most likely explanation). Or she could have wanted to play monopoly but
was afraid that Loghain would cheat. Or she could have wanted to force
him to dance the Remigauld while wearing a pretty dress and she figured
that having Loghain there would ruin the experience for her. Or, you
know, anything at all.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Morrigan_and_Alistair%3F

[Daerog]

It always seemed to me that Alistair is NOT Fiona's kid due to the messed up timeline. Maric had sex with Fiona after being all sad and depressed after Rowan's death. Alistair was born while Rowan was still alive, iirc.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 16 octobre 2010 - 01:54 .

[DarthCaine]

@Juneya

The theory is based around this:

DarthCaine wrote...

Alistair and Morrigan are clearly references to Arthur and Morgan Le Fay

Arthur and Alistair are both Kings (or at least have royal blood, since whether Alistair is king is determinted by the player's choices). Morgan Le Fay and Morrigan are both dark haired sorceresses and from the events in The Stolen Throne Morrigan is probably Maric's daughter making her Alistair's half sister (just like how Morgan Le Fay is Arthur's half sister). If you do the dark ritual with Alistair, it strengthens the theory even more (then again, this is also determined by the player's choice), seeing as Morgan Le Fay had Arthur's child.

Without all of those similarities, I agree it would have been far fetched

Modifié par DarthCaine, 16 octobre 2010 - 01:59 .

[Bootsykk]

DarthCaine wrote...

The theory is based around this:

DarthCaine wrote...

Alistair and Morrigan are clearly references to Arthur and Morgan Le Fay

Arthur and Alistair are both Kings (or at least have royal blood, since whether Alistair is king is determinted by the player's choices). Morgan Le Fay and Morrigan are both dark haired sorceresses and from the events in The Stolen Throne Morrigan is probably Maric's daughter making her Alistair's half sister (just like how Morgan Le Fay is Arthur's half sister). If you do the dark ritual with Alistair, it strengthens the theory even more (then again, this is also determined by the player's choice), seeing as Morgan Le Fay had Arthur's child.

Without all of those similarities, I agree it would have been far fetched

Keep in mind that this may just be a writer's trick to throw us all off from what is actually going to happen. This is quite, quite common whenever allusions or similarities to mythology are present in a tale.
I'm sure that Gaider is inspired by Arthurian legend. But such a humongous plot device as Mordred to be blatantly copied? That's kind of... well, kind of crappy storytelling.

I suppose at the base of it... I would just be extremely disappointed.


EDIT: Wait a sec--I'm confused now. Wasn't it Lot's Wife, Anna, and sister of Morgan who was actually the mother of Mordred?

Modifié par Juneya, 16 octobre 2010 - 02:16 .

[syllogi]

Juneya wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

The theory is based around this:

DarthCaine wrote...

Alistair and Morrigan are clearly references to Arthur and Morgan Le Fay

Arthur and Alistair are both Kings (or at least have royal blood, since whether Alistair is king is determinted by the player's choices). Morgan Le Fay and Morrigan are both dark haired sorceresses and from the events in The Stolen Throne Morrigan is probably Maric's daughter making her Alistair's half sister (just like how Morgan Le Fay is Arthur's half sister). If you do the dark ritual with Alistair, it strengthens the theory even more (then again, this is also determined by the player's choice), seeing as Morgan Le Fay had Arthur's child.

Without all of those similarities, I agree it would have been far fetched

Keep in mind that this may just be a writer's trick to throw us all off from what is actually going to happen. This is quite, quite common whenever allusions or similarities to mythology are present in a tale.
I'm sure that Gaider is inspired by Arthurian legend. But such a humongous plot device as Mordred to be blatantly copied? That's kind of... well, kind of crappy storytelling.

I suppose at the base of it... I would just be extremely disappointed.


EDIT: Wait a sec--I'm confused now. Wasn't it Lot's Wife, Anna, and sister of Morgan who was actually the mother of Mordred?

Yes, she's also called Morgause, and while she's also Morgan le Fay's half sister, she was the only half sibling whom Arthur accidentally slept with.

[SphereofSilence]

Can someone explain when did Maric made up with Flemeth that resulted in Morrigan's birth? Please make a reference to the source, thanks.

[gokujohnjr]

nooooooooo wath have i done

[ShrinkingFish]

SphereofSilence wrote...

Can someone explain when did Maric made up with Flemeth that resulted in Morrigan's birth? Please make a reference to the source, thanks.

The reference source does not exist. It is all theory. The closest you can get is that Flemeth and Maric made a deal that no one knows anything about except for Maric and Flemeth... and thirty-odd years later Morrigan joins the Warden's party...

[SphereofSilence]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

SphereofSilence wrote...

Can someone explain when did Maric made up with Flemeth that resulted in Morrigan's birth? Please make a reference to the source, thanks.

The reference source does not exist. It is all theory. The closest you can get is that Flemeth and Maric made a deal that no one knows anything about except for Maric and Flemeth... and thirty-odd years later Morrigan joins the Warden's party...

Oh, that. Good job on David Gaider's part to leave it to readers' imagination on what went on. Open questions such as these I think are better left unanswered, at least for a long while.

[ShrinkingFish]

SphereofSilence wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

SphereofSilence wrote...

Can someone explain when did Maric made up with Flemeth that resulted in Morrigan's birth? Please make a reference to the source, thanks.

The reference source does not exist. It is all theory. The closest you can get is that Flemeth and Maric made a deal that no one knows anything about except for Maric and Flemeth... and thirty-odd years later Morrigan joins the Warden's party...

Oh, that. Good job on David Gaider's part to leave it to readers' imagination on what went on. Open questions such as these I think are better left unanswered, at least for a long while.

I agree.

And I don't mind if they never answer it directly.

Though my imagined "deal" had something to do with Maric's mysterious disappearance at sea some time later...

[syllogi]

In the Stolen Throne, Maric and Loghain were lost in the Korcari Wilds, and Flemeth found them and offered to help them find their way out, but she demanded that Maric do *something* for her in exchange. Loghain was forced to stay outside her hut for several hours, and then Maric came out, disturbed, and said nothing about what occurred inside. In the Calling, Maric mentioned that Flemeth predicted some events that came to pass, but he still did not say what deal he made with her.



Like I said, he was moving heavy furniture. How often do strong young men come through her neck of the woods????

[Maconbar]

I think that Flemeth made him promise to have sex with every elf woman that he met.

[ShrinkingFish]

TeenZombie wrote...

In the Stolen Throne, Maric and Loghain were lost in the Korcari Wilds, and Flemeth found them and offered to help them find their way out, but she demanded that Maric do *something* for her in exchange. Loghain was forced to stay outside her hut for several hours, and then Maric came out, disturbed, and said nothing about what occurred inside. In the Calling, Maric mentioned that Flemeth predicted some events that came to pass, but he still did not say what deal he made with her.

Like I said, he was moving heavy furniture. How often do strong young men come through her neck of the woods????

Several hours?! Boys got some stamina!

As such I find it much more likely that they were talking.

[ShrinkingFish]

Maconbar wrote...

I think that Flemeth made him promise to have sex with every elf woman that he met.

Ha!

[GodWood]

TeenZombie wrote...
In the Stolen Throne, Maric and Loghain were lost in the Korcari Wilds, and Flemeth found them and offered to help them find their way out, but she demanded that Maric do *something* for her in exchange. Loghain was forced to stay outside her hut for several hours, and then Maric came out, disturbed, and said nothing about what occurred inside. In the Calling, Maric mentioned that Flemeth predicted some events that came to pass, but he still did not say what deal he made with her.

Like I said, he was moving heavy furniture. How often do strong young men come through her neck of the woods????

I've always loved the image of Loghain sitting outside reading a newspaper of something while all these disturbing sex noises are coming from inside Flemeth's hut.

[ShrinkingFish]

I seem to remember their deal having something to do with what he had to do in the future... not at that exact moment... but I may be remembering that wrong...



Anyways, I always figured Morrigan was of a comparable age to Alistair and the Warden, each being young adults. If Morrigan was conceived in this instance then she would be at least thirty. I suppose it is possible that she is but she didn't strike me as such.

[Daerog]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

I seem to remember their deal having something to do with what he had to do in the future... not at that exact moment... but I may be remembering that wrong...

Anyways, I always figured Morrigan was of a comparable age to Alistair and the Warden, each being young adults. If Morrigan was conceived in this instance then she would be at least thirty. I suppose it is possible that she is but she didn't strike me as such.

Perhaps she had him promise to bring back the Grey Wardens to Fereldan, and then spoke how a Blight would happen and how he would not live to see it.

[Leonia]

Not this theory again. The promise could have been ANYTHING and if I could find that "What if Jory had survived the Joining" thread I could copy a lot of my posts on the subject. The age difference between Morrigan and Alistair isn't large enough, in a nutshell.

Modifié par leonia42, 16 octobre 2010 - 04:16 .

[KhorinShizucor]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

I seem to remember their deal having something to do with what he had to do in the future... not at that exact moment... but I may be remembering that wrong...

Anyways, I always figured Morrigan was of a comparable age to Alistair and the Warden, each being young adults. If Morrigan was conceived in this instance then she would be at least thirty. I suppose it is possible that she is but she didn't strike me as such.

Perhaps she had him promise to bring back the Grey Wardens to Fereldan, and then spoke how a Blight would happen and how he would not live to see it.

That would explain why Maric was so eager to help the Grey Wardens in The Calling.

Modifié par KhorinShizucor, 16 octobre 2010 - 05:41 .

[joriandrake]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

JRCHOharry wrote...

 Then that means... 
*remembers dark ritual*
What have I done

Made an incestuous God baby?  

thumbs up!