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When is Gaider going to expound on the fact that Morrigan and Allistair are siblings?


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#176
Tamyn

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DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

It always seemed to me that Alistair is NOT Fiona's kid due to the messed up timeline. Maric had sex with Fiona after being all sad and depressed after Rowan's death. Alistair was born while Rowan was still alive, iirc.


Yes. Thank you. I don't know why people do not bring this up more often. Alistair was born while Rowan was still alive. Eamon, Loghain, and Maric all knew this. Fiona's kid was born after Rowan's death. Alistair is years older than Fiona's kid. There's no way they could make up Alistair's son-of-a-maid-in-Redcliffe background for Fiona's kid since Alistair was already alive in Redcliffe before Maric met Fiona.

#177
Dave of Canada

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Tamyn wrote...
There's no way they could make up Alistair's son-of-a-maid-in-Redcliffe background


I have problems with this too. If it was made up, why the hell would Goldanna know about Alistair and her "mother's" death?

#178
Shadow_broker

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and Zev is flmmeths nephew



Oghren is sigruns brother



and grunt is shales father

#179
upsettingshorts

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Flemeth is Morrigan! Think about it, do you ever see them at the same place at the same time?!?



...actually yes. Damn, there goes that theory.

#180
Dave of Canada

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Flemeth is Morrigan! Think about it, do you ever see them at the same place at the same time?!?


You don't see them in the same place after you go to Lothering, though. Flemeth possessed Morrigan there!

#181
Wittand25

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Flemeth is Morrigan! Think about it, do you ever see them at the same place at the same time?!?

...actually yes. Damn, there goes that theory.

But you never touch them at the same time, so one of them can still be just an illusion made by magic.

#182
Leonia

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Tamyn wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

It always seemed to me that Alistair is NOT Fiona's kid due to the messed up timeline. Maric had sex with Fiona after being all sad and depressed after Rowan's death. Alistair was born while Rowan was still alive, iirc.


Yes. Thank you. I don't know why people do not bring this up more often. Alistair was born while Rowan was still alive. Eamon, Loghain, and Maric all knew this. Fiona's kid was born after Rowan's death. Alistair is years older than Fiona's kid. There's no way they could make up Alistair's son-of-a-maid-in-Redcliffe background for Fiona's kid since Alistair was already alive in Redcliffe before Maric met Fiona.


That's probably because Alistair's age and character was changed many times over the course of DA:O's development. He was initially supposed to be a lot older, in which case it would have made sense that he had been born while Rowan was alive. However, after being redesigned, he was also made younger. Perhaps the dialogue with Loghain was not changed to suit (I think he's the only one that mentions that Rowan was alive when Alistair was born) or perhaps he's just really bad at judging ages.

Maric would have had to make up one heck of a story to throw Loghain off the scent after all. Perhaps the maid thing with Eamon was a convenient story to latch onto. Perhaps Eamon was all "Hey I have this maidservant giving birth soon.. let's just lie to Goldana." Eamon is a sneaky bastard after all, he'd so something like that.

I'm in the "Fiona is Alistair's mother" camp because it just makes sense. The way the epilogue is written in The Calling.. it's definitely meant to lead into the story of Origins. It even mentions that the child looked a lot like Cailan, something a few NPCs like Anora mention in regards to Alistair. If you want to get into genetics, he has dark eyes like Fiona and even has a slight affinity to magic (which is why he made a decent templar). 

Also, if Alistair is NOT FIona's kid, then there is another heir out there and that isn't in character for Maric. The guy has had his heart broken 3 times and produced 2 children and has enough issues with being a poor father figure. Do you really think he was keen to hook up with someone again and produce yet another child that would he couldn't raise properly? He WANTED to raise Alistair with Fiona but the circumstances just weren't right. I think after Fiona he would have given up on opening up to women again and certainly wouldn't be interested in fathering any more children.

Of course, we won't know for sure until Gaider comes out and says it though. 

Modifié par leonia42, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:51 .


#183
Lurklen

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I think it's likely that there were a lot of little kids out there that looked like Maric. It's possible that Alistair is Fiona's kid, but it's just a likely that Maric just got around. It really wouldn't be the first time in history that a king had a score of bastards out there. He just had a few he acknowledged, if not in public.

#184
Daerog

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It would be nice if Maric did have a third child. Afterall, the Theirin bloodline seems doomed if a Grey Warden is the last. Especially a Grey Warden who would either remain single, marry another Grey Warden, or marry someone who is believed to be incapable of producing an heir.

Also be good for a main character for a later DA novel.

Also, if we are talking about canon, the video game trumps any other source, and since the dialogue of Alistair being born while Rowan was still alive is in there, that is what they have to go with. Unless they wish to throw in a retcon and ask people to ignore that dialogue. And if they make it so Alistair is Fiona's kid and Rowan was still alive during that time, then that just throws Maric's motivations and feelings that led to Fiona getting pregnant to be completely off, pretty much making The Calling useless except for showing how cool the Architect really was.

Maybe they planned for Alistair to be Fiona's kid, but it just seems too messed up to keep it that way now. Either there is a third kid or BioWare will never go back to the subject again or retcon it.

Edit: Also, it wasn't like he planned on getting the maid or Fiona pregnant. Probably got drunk with the maid and was in a very emotional state with Fiona.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 16 octobre 2010 - 08:39 .


#185
Leonia

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DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

It would be nice if Maric did have a third child. Afterall, the Theirin bloodline seems doomed if a Grey Warden is the last. Especially a Grey Warden who would either remain single, marry another Grey Warden, or marry someone who is believed to be incapable of producing an heir.

Also be good for a main character for a later DA novel.

Also, if we are talking about canon, the video game trumps any other source, and since the dialogue of Alistair being born while Rowan was still alive is in there, that is what they have to go with. Unless they wish to throw in a retcon and ask people to ignore that dialogue. And if they make it so Alistair is Fiona's kid and Rowan was still alive during that time, then that just throws Maric's motivations and feelings that led to Fiona getting pregnant to be completely off, pretty much making The Calling useless except for showing how cool the Architect really was.

Maybe they planned for Alistair to be Fiona's kid, but it just seems too messed up to keep it that way now. Either there is a third kid or BioWare will never go back to the subject again or retcon it.

Edit: Also, it wasn't like he planned on getting the maid or Fiona pregnant. Probably got drunk with the maid and was in a very emotional state with Fiona.


How do you figure? There is a discrepency between a codex entry regarding Duncan's parentage that disagrees with the novels that has been confirmed to be non-canon. In that case the book trumped the video game. I am sure there are other minor examples.

Dude, if you read The Calling or The Stolen Throne, you'd realise Maric is a decent human being who cares about those around him. He wouldn't simply "get drunk and do someone". He was actually in a pretty good emotional state once he got his closure with Fiona, that's when he was energised to take care of Cailan and rule Fereldan. She pulled him out of his 2 year slump. Sure, he was upset that he'd never see her again, but ultimately it made him stronger. 

I just get a bit edgy when people start to insenuate that Maric is some sort of man**** without any sense of morals. Maybe this is because so few have read the novels or because the little tidbits in the game just don't describe him well enough (though both the codex entry and little bits of dialogue that you get from Anora, Loghain, and Eamon paint him in a very bright light). 

Modifié par leonia42, 16 octobre 2010 - 09:03 .


#186
Daerog

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I haven't read Duncan's Codex entry and was unaware of that issue.

I did read the Calling and TST (own them and keep them in nice condition), and I really like Maric. I don't think he's a bad guy just because he may have had 3 kids with 3 different women. He did take responsibility with all three. Not publically, but he still cared for them. I don't think he is without morals, but he does make some stupid decisions, like having sex with Fiona in the Deep Roads for one. That is not the best place for something like that, and neither of them were in a proper state of mind to actually think, "Oh, this will probably not work out later." He was in a good state afterwards, sure, but not while in the Deep Roads, and Fiona wasn't in the most stable state either.

Maric was a pretty neat character, and I don't see having three children being a bad thing and it just makes the most sense with what has been said so far.

#187
Leonia

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DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

I haven't read Duncan's Codex entry and was unaware of that issue.

I did read the Calling and TST (own them and keep them in nice condition), and I really like Maric. I don't think he's a bad guy just because he may have had 3 kids with 3 different women. He did take responsibility with all three. Not publically, but he still cared for them. I don't think he is without morals, but he does make some stupid decisions, like having sex with Fiona in the Deep Roads for one. That is not the best place for something like that, and neither of them were in a proper state of mind to actually think, "Oh, this will probably not work out later." He was in a good state afterwards, sure, but not while in the Deep Roads, and Fiona wasn't in the most stable state either.

Maric was a pretty neat character, and I don't see having three children being a bad thing and it just makes the most sense with what has been said so far.


Ah, well, now I feel like a bit of an arse for the tone in my last post. Sorry about that. I wonder if we'll ever get any answers on this subject though? Unless it relates to the plot of DA 2, probably not.

Modifié par leonia42, 16 octobre 2010 - 10:10 .


#188
nightcobra

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leonia42 wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

I haven't read Duncan's Codex entry and was unaware of that issue.

I did read the Calling and TST (own them and keep them in nice condition), and I really like Maric. I don't think he's a bad guy just because he may have had 3 kids with 3 different women. He did take responsibility with all three. Not publically, but he still cared for them. I don't think he is without morals, but he does make some stupid decisions, like having sex with Fiona in the Deep Roads for one. That is not the best place for something like that, and neither of them were in a proper state of mind to actually think, "Oh, this will probably not work out later." He was in a good state afterwards, sure, but not while in the Deep Roads, and Fiona wasn't in the most stable state either.

Maric was a pretty neat character, and I don't see having three children being a bad thing and it just makes the most sense with what has been said so far.


Ah, well, now I feel like a bit of an arse for the tone in my last post. Sorry about that. I wonder if we'll ever get any answers on this subject though? Unless it relates to the plot of DA 2, probably not.


on gamescon q&a david gaider answered to this question:

"will we ever know what happened to maric and fiona in DA2"

his answer was partially positive:P

#189
Leonia

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If I recall, he was very vague about that. If we get more than a codex entry, I'll personally bake a cake and send it to Gaider. Maric and Fiona are my favourite characters.

#190
KJandrew

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Does the calling not describe Maric as being bored with the Throne?

You never know, cheating on his wife could be a way to get rid of that boredom?

I personally think that Alistair is the maid's son because Eamon, Loghain and Alistair himself all reference that he was raised in Redcliffe to keep him away from Rowan.

#191
AllThatJazz

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 I reckon Anders might be Fiona's child and Alistair really is the son of a serving girl. Errrr, before Leonia starts throwing things at me :P, I think Maric's a great character, and not a scummy man, just probably very lonely with both Rowan and Katriel dead. Poor puppy. :( 

#192
Leonia

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Hey, it's quite possible. And I wouldn't mind if Anders was a Theirin, actually. Ah, those Theirin boys, always charming and handsome and heroic and noble and..

I really just want to give Maric a hug, he didn't do anything to deserve being screwed over repeatedly. But I do love that scene in the The Calling epilogue where Fiona tells him to forgive himself for Katriel's death. I tear up every time!

Modifié par leonia42, 16 octobre 2010 - 10:32 .


#193
Esbatty

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No he was raised in Redcliffe to not help tarnish the memory of Rowan. Not specifically that Alistair was born while Rowan was alive but rather that if Maric can have liasons with other women after the Queen's death it rouses the suspicion that he could have done so whilst she was lying sick in bed.



In addition to that he was also raised apart and not recognized by Maric due to the fact that it would cause trouble once Cailan ascends the throne. With two available heirs, unruly banns and Teyrns could ally under the heir they can more easily control and bend and oust or assassinate they other.



This third heir business bespeaks of craziness. Unless you mean Morrigan, then good on ya. It makes alot of sense for Flemeth to have control over the Theirin bloodline by having one of her daughters in line for the throne. Anora even tells a Mage warden that Ferelden would have difficulty having a Mage as King so she turns down the offer of marriage. But with Thedas turmoil with the events of DAO, Awakening, and DA2 Morrigan could later step in or an older OG Child to take the throne from Anora/Alistair.

#194
AllThatJazz

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leonia42 wrote...

Hey, it's quite possible. And I wouldn't mind if Anders was a Theirin, actually. Ah, those Theirin boys, always charming and handsome and heroic and noble and..

I really just want to give Maric a hug, he didn't do anything to deserve being screwed over repeatedly. But I do love that scene in the The Calling epilogue where Fiona tells him to forgive himself for Katriel's death. I tear up every time!


Agreed, agreed, agreed! With a :wub: for the Theirin boys, and a big :kissing: for Maric. 

#195
KillTheLastRomantic

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Um...what? Dark ritual, disturbing implications. Seriously, is this a theory or is it canon that they're related?

#196
Leonia

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Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

Um...what? Dark ritual, disturbing implications. Seriously, is this a theory or is it canon that they're related?


Just theory, for now.

Part of me wants to say it makes a lot of sense, given what Esbatty just said but of part of me thinks that Flemeth is kind of above needing an heir on the throne. I always got the impression that she is going to try and destroy much of Thedas (though I don't know why) and it isn't going to matter who sits on any throne if she gets her way. Then again, she did say to Maric that "he will do" and if he hadn't came along, she could have used Meghren for her purposes (the Orlesian usurper) sooo..hmm..

Plus if it is true, it kind of has a nice "Morgan and Arthur" feel to it, which is kind of neat but kind of gross.

On the subject of Anders, the Dragon Age Wiki indicates that a relation between Anders and Alistair was disproven but it doesn't site a source, so no idea how reliable that is.

Modifié par leonia42, 16 octobre 2010 - 10:42 .


#197
Esbatty

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Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

Um...what? Dark ritual, disturbing implications. Seriously, is this a theory or is it canon that they're related?

If you read all the previous pages its theory due to book implications.

#198
GodWood

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AllThatJazz wrote...
 I reckon Anders might be Fiona's child 

It has been confirmed Anders isn't related to Alistair and thus not Maric's son.

#199
AllThatJazz

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GodWood wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...
 I reckon Anders might be Fiona's child 

It has been confirmed Anders isn't related to Alistair and thus not Maric's son.


Boo.

#200
Eski.Moe

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Welp, since they've taken some factors from ASOIAF, this might be drawn from Targaryen mating practices :P